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Dropped Cheetos Could Have Triggered Ecosystem Chaos in Largest US Cave Chamber
- harperlee 2y agoA whalefall of sorts.
- liquidise 2y ago> Over 300 million people visit the national parks each year, generating nearly 70 million tons of trash. What? Does this include waste the parks themselves generate in brochures and such? I cannot fathom how each visitor to a national park generates an average of 467 pounds of trash.
- bbor 2y agoGreat point! But yeah I think it does, given the source indeed uses “generates”: https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/teaming-up-to-keep-park-waste-out-of-landfills.htm https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/teaming-up-to-keep-park-was... bringing in and generating nearly 70 million tons of trash God knows how they get to that number tho. Probably was a sum of all trash operations for all parks system-wide? That would include all the ranger’s trash from living there, along with any waste generated by maintenance, hospitality, and rescue activities. That makes a bit more sense if we consider that there are many national park service units (including national lakeshores, national battlegrounds, etc.), some of which presumably have a much lower ranger:visitor ratio than, say, Great Smoky Mountains NP. Like Gates of the Arctic NP! Some activities are pretty wasteful (looking at you, mountaineers) and some people dump their RV trash in the little trash cans at the visitor center, but no way that puts a dent in 400lb/person, IMO.
- Throw84948 2y ago[flagged]
- oefrha 2y agoThe U.S. generates ~300 million tons of municipal solid waste every year.[1] 1/4 of that is generated in national parks? Not a believable figure. [1] https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-and-recycling/national-overview-facts-and-figures-materials https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-...
- nxobject 2y agoPerhaps the NPS is exempt from those statistics as a federal agency – I imagine the EPA's oversight is different there (as it is for usual local and state agencies, which those stats seem to cover.)
- rightbyte 2y agoThey have to include e.g. dirty earth from oil spill cleanups or something in the stats.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Thorrez 2y agoMaybe they meant 70 million pounds of trash.
- votepaunchy 2y agoNow we’re down to ~4 oz. of trash per visitor, which also seems unbelievable.
- relaxing 2y agoSome sources do quote it as lbs rather than a tons e.g. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/brand-connect/subaru/tackling-trash-in-our-nations-green-spaces/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/brand-connect/subaru/tackl... I could believe it, if most visitors are simply walking through the visitor centers and then leaving, which I bet is the case for a lot of the high traffic parks (think Independence Hall, Lincoln Memorial, etc.) At most you’re dropping some food wrappers, which is pretty light.
- sitkack 2y agoSeems low. Talking about trash on both sides of the economic exchange. Buy a meal and you will generate a bunch of trash on consumer side, the business will also generate trash during production.
- mensetmanusman 2y agoEvery 4th visitor forgets to park properly and they excitedly watch their car fly off the side of the grand canyon.
- pvaldes 2y ago> Rangers spent 20 minutes removing it. Animals will eat the cheetos, mold will spread to the walls Where it will be consumed by the mold eating cave inhabitants. Do they really think that cave ecosystems weren't prepared for a deer carcass? They had received external supplies of nutrients for millions of years. Keeping caves clean is a good thing, but if people can't behave can be fined for it. In any case, regular cleaning teams should be included in the budget of the park as part of the management. Stop being cheap with nature. Except for the aluminum and plastic bag, easily removable, this is a storm in a teacup. Would be relevant only when prehistoric art is present.
- llamaimperative 2y agoAre you a caretaker of cave systems?
- afavour 2y agoNext best thing: a message board contributor.
- kylebenzle 2y ago[flagged]
- afavour 2y agoIMO it’s sincere and valid. Experts at the national park service assert X, anonymous contributor asserts disagreement Y. It’s fair to ask what your qualification is when disagreeing with a named expert.
- jMyles 2y agoHN is one of the few places on there internet where, more often than not, assessments and arguments are mostly integrated based on their merits, logic, and referenced sources, rather than the credentials of the author of the comment.
- jncfhnb 2y agoIt wouldn’t actually make a difference right? Like it would be world changing for the life in the cave in the sense that it is short lived and fiercely competitive, but it would quickly return to the original balance, no?
- giraffe_lady 2y agoIt would achieve a balance but not necessarily the original one. How long it would take I'm not competent to assess unlike apparently everyone else commenting here.
- exabrial 2y agoIf you can't go out into nature without trashing it, just stay home. When I got hike, I just started taking a trashbag. Was on a waterfall trail in Colorado three weeks ago; someone left a sock, another their _entire pants_ in a tree (we checked around before cleaning them up, and it was obvious they had been there awhile). How you forget your pants is beyond me. And don't get me started on people's stupid dogs. Dog feces is pollution, and is non-natural in these environments. People will sometimes scoop, but then leave the bag. What part of that is acceptable?
- sitzkrieg 2y agothe transplants are trashing the front range and do not care
- uptime 2y agoI have come across the full dog poop bag phenomenon a lot lately on trails and sidewalks. A small group forms, as if there was a memo that someone else wants them or would be picking them up. It is baffling. I would guess that these are people who were not bagging their poop and were chided for that. And then these people took the command too literally, bagging but not carrying away.
- morgango 2y agoI think it is just leaving the bag for picking up on the way back. Not really that complicated.