16 ms·

Not a moralistic take, but one issue that interests me is the second-order impacts associated with the long tail of producers in OF who do not make a career fro

• bool3max 2y ago
  That issue exists in the context of all other novel "social media" careers as well.
  • tessierashpool9 2y ago
    not to the extent of having a video published where you have sex - to put it mildly.
    • debesyla 2y ago
      Yeah but having sex on tape isn't something special or shameful.
      • beaglesss 2y ago
        If you take a video of taking a shit mostly no one is gonna think you're immoral or shameful but if there's videos plastered everywhere of you shitting on cam for cash then it could be detrimental to your social standing.
        • debesyla 2y ago
          I would argue that video of taking a shit could display video production and marketing skills better than, let's say, doing a socially unacceptable political rant. But I agree that probabbly being super racist is currently more accepted in some social media than showing genitals. I'm not promoting it, of course.
          • bmacho 2y ago
            Musk and Bezos?
        • wincy 2y ago
          Blippie the children’s show star has somehow come out unscathed after literally shitting on his friend while doing a Harlem Shake video. I’m not really sure how. I tell every parent I meet who mentions Blippi but it’s like trying to stop a river from flowing.
          • dr-detroit 2y ago
            [dead]
  • __oh_es 2y ago
    Really?! I think putting rockets on youtube is a pretty far stretch from being a naive onlyfans creator…
• habinero 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • groestl 2y ago
    And it's not just that it's no longer acceptable (as a normative declaration), people just stopped caring. At least in a bubble that's large enough so you can lead a comfortable life without any serious ramifications.
  • lynx23 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • Freak_NL 2y ago
      Wait, you would seriously hold that against a potential mate if they were open about it and honest about their motivations?
      • lynx23 2y ago
        Er, yes. Without a question. Would you date an ex-prostitue?
        • groestl 2y ago
          How would you even know if somebody you like had engaged in transactional sex before?
          • ljsprague 2y ago
            He admitted it in an attempt to get me back.
          • deleted 2y ago
            [deleted]
        • Freak_NL 2y ago
          As long as she matched with me on a personal, intellectual, and moral level, and is a good match in general, sure. I would like to understand her motivations for doing so of course, but that's what dating is all about. Besides, if some other hypothetical perfect match told me she still went to church until her 25th and actually believed all that stuff I wouldn't dismiss her outright either for doing something so silly, but similarly seek to understand her first.
• lynx23 2y ago
  Well, those civilians who can think for themselves, especially about the consequences of their actions, are clearly in advantage. I am lacking empathy for those who are apparently so hooked up to the here-and-now that they seem to ignore the future. If you sell your body, most societies will punish you. Thats fine, societies have all sorts of norms we all need to learn.
  • dragonwriter 2y ago
    > If you sell your body, most societies will punish you. No, if you sell sex, lots of societies will punish you. Selling or renting your body otherwise -- which a very large share of jobs involve just as much as sex work does -- is otherwise lauded. > Thats fine, societies have all sorts of norms we all need to learn. Lots of norms that societies have or historically have had would be better eliminated. That something is an existing norm isn't an argument in favor of it being a norm.
  • Freak_NL 2y ago
    > If you sell your body, most societies will punish you. Thats [sic] fine, […] How is that 'fine'? I would like to see a future where someone doing sex work to make ends meet (or even as a freely chosen profession!) is not ostracised for it. Sex is part of society whether you want it or not, and so is paying for sexual acts.
    • lynx23 2y ago
      Thats also fine. You can "like to see" everything you want. Question is, what the rest of society believes. Oldest bussiness and all that, I am actually on your side. But that doesn't mean I can ignore what overall society feels and thinks. Besides, there is a difference between consuming payed sex, and having a relationship with a (ex) sex worker. The difference is quite huge.
    • bad_user 2y ago
      I would like to see a future where people shouldn't have to prostitute themselves to make ends meet. Some cultural norms are outdated, but prostitution is still degrading and dangerous for those practicing it, especially for the women; who may not be doing so willingly, prostitution being the main incentive for human trafficking. And the online medium doesn't change that by much. Some people may be willing to pay for sex, some people are willing to pay for many other things or activities that should be or are illegal.
• kwhitefoot 2y ago
  > the additional toll it will take on the creators in terms of social ostracism, future prospects, future opportunities, and mental health. Is it such a big problem nowadays as it used to be? My impression is that society in general, and younger people in particular, have become more tolerant of such things; at least in Northern Europe.
  • fleischhauf 2y ago
    that's the thing, the more people do it the more it gets accepted. the same is happening with drugs for example.
    • prmoustache 2y ago
      And the more it is diluted by the sheer number of people involved in it.
    • lotsofpulp 2y ago
      All the data I keep seeing suggests drug use (including alcohol) is on the decline. https://nida.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/2023/12/reported-drug-use-among-adolescents-continued-to-hold-below-pre-pandemic-levels-in-2023 https://nida.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/2023/12/repor...
      • standardUser 2y ago
        That's only young people.
    • random9749832 2y ago
      It is worse here because it is competitive as well. People get incentivised to do things they normally wouldn't in order to please whatever algorithm is driving the content on the site. A race to the bottom.
  • brightball 2y ago
    I see discussions on Reddit periodically where it makes long term relationships complicated. I’m an old married guy, but I can’t imagine dating and then finding out that the person you were involved with was doing that type of thing. In a friend group I wouldn’t even blink. Based on the conversations I see, this seems to be a common experience.
• prmoustache 2y ago
  OTOH this is not the same as "VHS" porn of the past decades. A few decades ago, there weren't that many "productions", performers were much fewer and some porn performers name were known by anyone, regardless if you had seen porn with them staring or not. A person getting out of the business and trying to make a new career would have a high chance of meeting people, especially men, in real life who might have seen at least one movie. Nowadays pornhub and onlyfans are flooded by wannabee independent performers. Even the most addicted to porn can't possibly follow and keep track of more than a tiny subset of performers. So there is a good chance you can still have a career alongside it or switch from OF to a non sex related career easily.
  • defrost 2y ago
    > So there is a good chance you can still have a career alongside it or switch from OF to a non sex related career easily. I have no comment on the morals and ethics but as far as modern technology goes; most if not all of OnlyFans finds its way to darkweb | pirate | hoarder megasites where there's always a few because-we-can obsessed techlords training facial recognition, gait recognition, and seeding AI generated VR porn engines, etc. We can be certain that any woman with an OnlyFans portfolio will face that being dragged up later in their life if they are at all slightly public. They do have the modern available hand wave explaination of "deepfake by weird ex" that becomes more and more believable each passing day.
    • prmoustache 2y ago
      > We can be certain that any woman with an OnlyFans portfolio will face that being dragged up later in their life if they are at all slightly public. I fail to see how it would be limited to women with an OF portfolio and not any female with an instagram/tiktok/facebook/linkedin account? Deepfaking is an online abuse problem that can reach anyone who has a public photo online on the internet.
      • defrost 2y ago
        There are two things discussed in my comment. \1 Real life identification via images posted online. This can happen to anyone and more specifically it has a very high chance of happening to people who use OnlyFans and think they'll remain unknown - which runs counter to the opinion expressed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41529846 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41529846 [ .. Nobody will know who you are .. ] So there is a good chance you can still have a career alongside it or switch from OF to a non sex related career easily. \2 Deep faking is increasing in frequency and has yet to be countered. This offers actual OnlyFans creators an "out" if they wish to have lives seperate to their OF persona's - they can claim anything dug up to be a deepfake (in the absence of any contrary metadata that's definitive). It's also something that will plague anyone with images online; it's probable that in the future people will pay as little attention to photorealistic videos of Margaret Thatcher blowing Ronald Reagan as they do those of the girl next door getting filthy with a centaur. Steps are being taken to counter deep fakes, those steps will likely fail to some degree.
• jappgar 2y ago
  The problem here is that ceratain members of our society think sexuality is immoral and that sex performers deserve ostracism. The idea that someone shouldn't be hired for a job because they have/had an OF is puritanism plain and simple. I expect that fewer people actually care about the "morality" and simply want to use morals as a weapon against women in the workplace.
  • tpurves 2y ago
    This. This is the real social problem we should be fighting. SW should not impinge on career or social status. As a hiring manager, if anything I'd want to consider sex performers as a green flag in a job history. Speaks to resourcefulness, social skills, courage and self confidence.
    • yieldcrv 2y ago
      And your women in tech won’t be SWERFs last two decades all the representation was sex worker exclusionary, fighting for a libidoless morph of the corporate world, talking over and on behalf of any women that thought or acted differently glad that was temporary booth babes and atmosphere models coming back soon
      • jappgar 2y ago
        only if i can be a booth hunk
        • yieldcrv 2y ago
          it’ll absolutely be the inclusive version
        • anthomtb 2y ago
          With some waxing and a tan I could probably swing this gig. Not sure it'd be worth the associated male attention though.
      • Der_Einzige 2y ago
• highcountess 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • almatabata 2y ago
    > Any healthy society would ban all OF type content immediately on national security threat grounds By this logic we should ban all extra marital relationships as well. Add to that mandatory DNA tests for all kids just in case. People will do things in private that they do not want known. No amount of legislation will fix it.
    • alt227 2y ago
      I agree with what you are saying, and people should definitely be allowed to do whatever they like in private as long as it is legal and consentual. That said, OF is not private, and that kind of negates your point.
      • almatabata 2y ago
        Aren't some of the interactions on OF private chats? Kind of like sexting and caming? Let us say you limit it all to one on one private interactions, it still causes the same issues you mention.
    • Der_Einzige 2y ago
      Requiring mandatory DNA tests (I.e the anti France) would be amazing! Men shouldn’t be on the hook to raise kids which aren’t there’s, and the men who is the biological father should be required by the state to do their job. Banning infidelity is another thing entierly, but DNA parental tests are the bomb.
  • Der_Einzige 2y ago
    Not enough people point out the connection between hacking the male libido and powerful forces operating in the shadows with an agenda. Men get so stupid when they think with their member instead of their brain. This is well known by your local spymaster, and all nerdy HN types should be extremely suspicious of beautiful women asking them questions. Femme fatales and honeypots are some of the lowest cost, easiest ways to get powerful, horny men to spill the beans on just about anything.
• knodi123 2y ago
  Like the recent story about a woman who ran for congress in Virginia, and lost 48.7% to 50.7% after it came out that she'd made tons of (consensual, legal) porn videos with her husband and sold them online.
• mrguyorama 2y ago
  >With traditional adult entertainment, creators are aware of the social ramifications (e.g., social stigma, familial ostracism, difficulty dealing with the future, and so on) I don't know why you say this, as it is laughably untrue. The porn industry has ALWAYS filled itself with very very young women who were assured (by liars) their family and friends and coworkers wouldn't see it, promised they wouldn't have to do certain things that they then get pressured and bullied into doing, and giving the women zero control over the produced media, how it is represented, how THEY are represented, and how it is portrayed to the audience. There's an immense amount of regret and "I didn't know" in the industry.
• brikym 2y ago
  If people are aware that more people are doing it surely the stigma is lessened as the practice is more normalized. For instance homosexuality is not a big deal now because it's seen as more common and therefore more normal. Certainly at high levels of revenue most people would consider it a financial success and a sign of status to be that beautiful.
• belorn 2y ago
  I would find it very interesting if there was a study done on second order impacts of porn producers. I suspect the outcome would be the opposite of the assumed, as in I suspect the average creator has an above average outcome compare to others with similar demographic and social economic status. I am reminded of the study done on the damaged goods hypothesis, which gave a negative on that hypothesis. Not only did porn actresses not have higher rate of childhood sexual abuse, but they rated higher than the average in terms of self-esteem, positive feelings, and social support. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23167939/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23167939/)