15 ms·

DiyPresso: DIY Espresso Machine

325 points by ragebol 2y ago

qwerty456127 2y ago
> Build your own espresso machine and configure it with our open source Why even use any software, why can't it be fully analog manual control?
lormayna 2y ago
If you are passionate about Espresso, I really suggest to try Kamira (https://www.espressokamira.com/ https://www.espressokamira.com/). It's very easy to make and maintain and you can have espresso at home like the one in the bar. I am Italian, so coffee is almost a religion for us
- wklm 2y ago
  Looks cool, but how does it actually differ in functionality from a regular mokka pot? Where is the pressure coming from?
  - lormayna 2y ago
    The physical principle is the same as the moka pot, the water boil in the tank and the steam pass through coffee. The main difference is that in the moka the steam flows from down to up and in the kamira from up to down and it's not going to burn the coffee dust. I can assure that the coffee with kamira is exactly like the one that you can taste in a bar.
hedora 2y ago
I’m kind of late to the conversation, but one requirement most home users overlook is using lead free parts. The brass in most high end heads slowly leaches lead into the boiler water. Arguably, this doesn’t matter at a coffee shop, since the boiler turns over the water in a few hours. At home, it takes a month or so. Anyway, I settled on a Flair Classic lever machine (one moving part, all stainless steel and silicone gasket on the water contact path), and previously, a PID kettle. It turns out that water boils at espresso temperature at ~ 2000 ft, so when the PID kettle died, I replaced it with an antique enameled cast iron kettle (my induction range heats it up ridiculously fast). I boil the stainless espresso machine head in the kettle with the espresso water, which achieves the same thing as continuously circulating hot boiler water through it in commercial espresso machines. I put the money I saved on the machine into a small commercial-grade burr grinder (like for the decaf beans at a coffee shop). I haven’t noticed any consistency issues vs. a $3500 machine at work. That thing can crank out four espressos in parallel all day long, but I don’t need that at home.
ragebol 2y ago
Came accross this cool idea. Downside is I don't like coffee, much less espresso
- xeromal 2y ago
  Great find!
MostlyStable 2y ago
looks like it got hugged to death, and the archive.org snapshots are from when it was "under construction"
- arcanemachiner 2y ago
  It's loading for me alright. Still seems to be very much under construction. The page for the main product is 404-ing for me. I would provide an archive.is link but it rendered the page VERY poorly. The product looks pretty cool, and I bet it will be pretty expensive. Here's the project's GitHub link (also very early in it's life cycle, hopefully): https://github.com/diyPresso/diyPresso-One https://github.com/diyPresso/diyPresso-One
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
wkirby 2y ago
Love it. There’s a surprising amount of hackability in espresso machines — reminds me a lot of bicycles as an approachably fun tinkering project.
- Bluecobra 2y ago
  Do you know of any resources to help learn bicycles? I wish I could tune my own bicycle but can't seem to figure it out. I can build my own computer, change the oil in my car, paint a house, etc. but my bicycle always befuddles me.
  - redsky17 2y ago
    Sheldon Browns website is a treasure trove of information! It’s an old school website, but the content is there. https://www.sheldonbrown.com https://www.sheldonbrown.com
  - nick3443 2y ago
    Talk to the folks at your local bike shop, and they can 1) tell you what type of parts your bike has so you can find the right resources 2) refer you to local groups who work on bikes like "bike kitchens" 3) sell you parts and tools you may need. Also, friends who work on bikes are usually happy to help!
    - mauvehaus 2y ago
      > Talk to the folks at your local bike shop... Yes, definitely, but please remember that while we love talking bikes, if you make a habit of discussing the purchase of an $8 set of brake pads for 20 minutes, we'll mysteriously disappear the next time you walk in.
  - GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
    Besides Sheldon Brown, look for community bike shops in your area! They often need volunteers to help out with all kinds of things and you’ll get direct exposure to a huge variety of bike tech and really knowledgeable folks who live and breathe bikes.
wkat4242 2y ago
I love espresso. But I don't think I'd be interested in a DIY option. I tend to use Nespresso, especially now that the cups are simply available in the shop (and cheap aftermarket options), it's pretty perfect. I know the manual process is more environmentally friendly but when I wake up in the morning I have no headspace for fussing with coffee grinds. I just need good coffee right away. And I don't even own a car or anything nor have kids so my footprint is pretty low.
- kwanbix 2y ago
  Aren't these things one of the most contaminant things you can have in the kitchen? Even the inventor regrets doing it. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/k-cup-creator-john-sylvan-regrets-inventing-keurig-coffee-pod-system-1.2982660 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/k-cup-creator-john-sylvan-r... Or is this different?
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    Nespresso pods are readily recycled aluminium, rather than the plastic of K-Cups.
    - NegativeLatency 2y ago
      How many places actually accept them though? Also nestle is a terrible company for the environment and human rights.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        > How many places actually accept them though? The company itself has a recycling program; you can mail them and some stores accept them. > Also nestle is a terrible company for the environment and human rights. Agreed, but so's pretty much everything else we buy.
      - robrtsql 2y ago
        The current status, IIRC, is that recycling in New York accepts Nespresso pods, and in the rest of the US, Nespresso offers free pre-paid shipping bags which you can fill with used pods and drop off at UPS, who will then return them to Nespresso for recycling. They also accept pods at their store locations. Not sure what the deal is in other parts of the world, if Nespresso is sold there.
WillPostForFood 2y ago
This is needed now that Gagguino in a petty bit of drama is no longer offering source code, and locking into hardware suppliers. Gaggiuino Gen 3 is free to use and will offer free software updates, but the source code is no longer available. This decision was made to maintain high standards for the hardware required for the project and prevent individuals from fracturing the community with subpar, non-standard components and processes that were untenable for Gaggiuino’s community-driven support to accommodate. Sincerely, *The GAGGIUINO Team https://gaggiuino.github.io/#/?id=home https://gaggiuino.github.io/#/?id=home
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Arch-TK 2y ago
  Honestly the whole Gaggiuino situation is so stupid it's unbelievable. Let's use "Gagguino" to mean "the authors of the original Gagguino" and "Faceuino" to mean "the guy on facebook" just to make it easier to explain the situation: Faceuino started selling his own kit based on the Gaggiuino designs with some modifications. Since the code and the designs (models and PCB) were permissively licensed, this was done at a profit. The kit came with instructions but unfortunately had some issues which caused weird integration problems which increased the support load for Gagguino. Gagguino could have handled this incident normally: Reaching out to Faceuino to explain that his modifications caused integration issues which were causing a support load on Gagguino. And warning Faceuino that unless he handles support for his own commercial venture correctly that Gagguino will officially announce that Faceuino makes broken kits and that people wanting to mod their machine should follow Gagguino routes rather than go to Faceuino. Instead, Gagguino relicensed everything CC-BY-NC, and started on some crusade against profit. Apparently some dude on facebook making a tiny profit selling in the order of tens if not (maybe) hundreds of kits was justification to relicense the entire project, stop development entirely, and start working on a locked down replacement for everything. Now it's a completely proprietary project where you must buy the hardware from approved suppliers. The main control board can still just be normally flashed (meaning you could make a clone of it if you just make your own PCB). But the display unit (which now handles a bunch of the high level stuff) is a pre-flashed ESP-32 module which can only be OTA updated and you cannot flash from stock. Now the website contains silly vague FUD like what you copied above. Meanwhile the discord has stuff like: > *Pre-Activated Software and New LCD Units* > The new software will come pre-activated on all the LCD units, which in are available exclusively through our official suppliers to prevent the scalpeing efforts some people are engaged into. We're launching with a 4.3" LCD version initially but a headless (no screen) version set to follow shortly after. Also considering a smaller LCD version for those who prefer a more compact setup while still keeping a always on system status in front. What scalping? What is being scalped? What? Why can't these people just be honest and state it outright: "We didn't realise what open meant and we think profit should be illegal so we're going to impose a bunch of silly restrictions to try to prevent anyone from making any profit on this mod." I would respect that, instead you get crap like "This decision was made to maintain high standards for the hardware required for the project" What???
nathancahill 2y ago
The closest I've gotten to DIY espresso is EspressoForge: https://espressoforge.com/ https://espressoforge.com/
- zemvpferreira 2y ago
  Man I’d love to get this semi-affordably in Europe. Such a cool product. I use a Cafelat Robot for my morning brew and it’s consistently the highlight of my day. Manual espresso rules
  - kreetx 2y ago
    This thread is a goldmine!
  - great_wubwub 2y ago
    Flair Espresso has a similar thing and it looks like they have European distributors. https://flairespresso.com/distributors/ https://flairespresso.com/distributors/ I have the Original and have had it since it was the only thing they made. It's picky but if you get it all dialed right it makes great espresso.
    - evantbyrne 2y ago
      The prices on some of the hand pumps are wild to me. I feel like if I'm going to go the hand pump route, then I shouldn't be paying the same price as a Gaggia Classic Pro.
      - stephencanon 2y ago
        Easy fix, just price out an Olympia Mina and then the other hand pumps will seem cheap by comparison.
  - tmoertel 2y ago
    I use a Cafelat Robot in the USA, and I agree it's great. The workflow is simple and streamlined, yet it affords a high degree of control.
avtolik 2y ago
This looks cool and hackable. I wonder though how much control over the pressure you can get with a vibratory pump.
- Arch-TK 2y ago
  A vibratory pump is very good at controlling pressure as demonstrated by the Decent espresso machine the Gaggiuino mod and whatever that Rancilio Silva mod is called.
wantstothink 2y ago
This is the precipice of fourth-wave coffee. Bringing your desktop computer to a cafe, hooking it up, and remotely brewing a cortado somewhere, in a different time zone.
mynameyeff 2y ago
Looks like your server got the HN hug
bee_rider 2y ago
Sadly the website was knocked out by HN, I guess. Anyway, I really like my Flair. It is fun to press the thing manually. And it is nice to have espresso still during a power outage (as long as I can get ground beans and fire). I think this is a different definition of “do it yourself” though, hahaha.
- nephanth 2y ago
  Not only is the Flair very nice to use, and does it allow you to make pretty good coffee, It is also the cheapest setup I found to make espresso
- ben7799 2y ago
  I've had a flair for about 3 years now and love it. Simple, not that expensive, extremely easy to clean and yet has less annoying maintenance than a fancy machine. Extremely unlikely to break. Very good control of the process and very good coffee. Obviously the weakness of the flair is the turnaround time. (I don't have the Flair 58). But I am the only one in my house who actually drinks Espresso. For the amount I drink I don't think the Flair actually takes much more time than a very expensive automatic machine, because I would leave the fancy machine turned on and hot and ready to make coffee.
  - martinpw 2y ago
    I find the turnaround time of the Flair a good thing. Firstly it makes a nice 5-10 minute ritual first thing in the morning, especially when combined with a hand grinder. And secondly it is just enough effort that it prevents me from drinking too much espresso which I absolutely would do if I had a more automated process.
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      Three shots is the point where I start to get annoyed with the thing and four shots is when I start to get jittery. So, it all worked out.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
keane 2y ago
507 server errors but it looks like they've also made one post to Instagram and another to LinkedIn: https://www.instagram.com/diypresso/ https://www.instagram.com/diypresso/ https://www.linkedin.com/posts/pieterraat_aankondiging-nieuw-bedrijf-gelanceerd-activity-7239209827728576512-UZoI https://www.linkedin.com/posts/pieterraat_aankondiging-nieuw...
ReptileMan 2y ago
Off topic - has anyone found cheaper sets of sifts than the kruve. The grind us way more important than the machine.
- Arch-TK 2y ago
  Sifting and particle size distribution are only one small part of what makes a grinder produce a certain flavour profile.
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
This is very cool - website is down for me now but looking at their Instagram post looks like an E61 group head, and espresso-only functionality (no steaming) which simplifies thing a ton. Looks like this would pair really well with a Nanofoamer for people who like milk drinks. I'm definitely tempted!
spzb 2y ago
https://archive.ph/rfQ7W https://archive.ph/rfQ7W
benrutter 2y ago
This is very cool! Sidetrack: the website mentions "driving espresso innovation forwards". Is this a thing? I love coffee but mostly just use a french press or a moka pot (which are more "great old school tech" than "innovation")
- eudes_ochoa 2y ago
  Oh, yes. Look up the Decent DE1 to see what that means. I will drink moka-pot coffee if that's all that's available, but espresso is what I want to have most days. So I have a good enough grinder and an mid-range espresso machine. It isn't always a success. Sometimes it's sour, sometimes bitter, sometimes too weak. Most of the time I don't have a clue why, so I can't address anything in particular, I can only try changing one of the few variables I can control with my setup, and hope to god that the other ones haven't changed on their own. People are really serious about consistently producing real good espresso. Control and observability are what these machines offer. If you want to fall into the rabbit hole Lance Hendrick's YouTube goes in depth into recent research and technique. And James Hoffman is a similar but more approachable source.
  - benrutter 2y ago
    This is a great rabbit hole!! Thanks for sharing
- cantSpellSober 2y ago
  french press or a moka pot aren't espresso, moka doesn't have the extraction pressure "real" espresso machines have (still quite enjoy them though!).
CAPSLOCKSSTUCK 2y ago
I recently bought a super automatic machine for only $350, and it doesn't include a steam wand (big plus for someone who never makes milk-based drinks). This seems like a fun project but simple off-the-shelf ones are really coming down in price.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  I think this is definitely for a different target market, as super automatics are generally not preferred by folks who I think would appreciate this machine.
- GuB-42 2y ago
  Comparing a superauto to this machine is like comparing an iPad to a home built desktop PC, a smartphone camera to a DSLR, a Sonos or Bose sound bar to a modular Hi-Fi system, etc... The superauto is more convenient, press a button, get a coffee. And if you put in decent beans, and follow the recommendations regarding cleaning/maintenance, you will most likely get a decent shot. However, it won't last as long, and you will be limited, that is, don't expect to get the perfect cup exactly like you want it. This machine does not compete with consumer-level superautos, it competes with other E-61 "home barista" type machines, which you can also find off-the-shelf.
MostlyStable 2y ago
couldn't find official confirmation anywhere, but that looks like an arduino MKR WiFi 1010, which means it should have wifi for integration with home assistant or something. I realize that the overall process is probably too manual to fully automate, but you could at least turn it on and get the water heating in the morning, I imagine. Although now that I look a little more, according to the quick start guide, wifi isn't yet enabled in the software, although I imagine that means they have plans to. Plus of course, with open source software, I guess it wouldn't be too hard to do yourself. I like this thing! Would love to see James Hoffman review it
- pcl 2y ago
  I plug my espresso machine into a smart socket, which I then switch on via an automation before I wake up, so the boiler is ready to go for me. I do the same thing with a dumb duct fan. Turns out smart sockets can cover a lot of ground in home automation.
Arch-TK 2y ago
Why E61 though? Strictly the most annoying type of group especially for home use.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  Was just going to comment on this. Sure it’s “the standard”, but it has so many downsides for home usage. Just stick with the standard 58mm portafilter but ditch the ancient e61.
  - criddell 2y ago
    What are the downsides? I had one for about a decade (a heat exchanger machine) and never had any issue with it. I've been thinking about getting back into espresso and an e61 would be something I look for mostly because I'm comfortable with it.
    - Kirby64 2y ago
      Broadly speaking, modern espresso groupheads for home use you want to focus on one thing: responsiveness. You want it to react to temperature provided, not resist changes to temperature, and be able to be controlled. E61 groupheads are typically coupled directly to the boiler of the machine via thermosiphon, so they heat up as the machine heats up. This also means that heating up the giant chunk of mass takes ages. Terrible for home use. The E61 grouphead is meant for commercial usage. It's heavy, tons of thermal mass, and has a tendency to overheat if it isn't flushed regularly (or, in the case of a commercial setting, just used... which typically isn't a problem in a commercial setting). For most home usages of E61 machines you need to perform "temperature surfing" to get a great shot from an E61. More modern groupheads don't have such a large thermal mass and tend to be somewhat isolated from the boiler or thermoblock, so you can just heat them directly from a previously pulled shot and be just fine. Again, not to say you can't make good espresso from them. I think there's also some E61 constructions and mitigate some of these issues, but they're not standard in the industry.
- dfxm12 2y ago
  It's easy to build/find parts.
trumbitta2 2y ago
I thought this was the first one? https://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Coffee/ https://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Coffee/
stiray 2y ago
Would love to play with it but for this price they can keep it. Dont understand me wrong, love the idea, but selling it for this price is just crazy. Consumers should be more aware that if they can afford something, this doesnt mean it is worth buying it.
- klausa 2y ago
  I mean, 1250 euros is a lot of money, but that is very much on the lower end of prices for mid-range espresso machines. If you don't like espresso and don't find it valuable, that's fine!
  - stiray 2y ago
    Wrong narative. I love espresso. But comparing it with 250 euro espresso machine, I highly doubt that it will make 500% better coffee, for wast majority of the owners, cleaning one < 500 euros machine regularly would make more difference, maybe drying portafilter before use, learning how to equally distribute coffee in portafilter, adding a round cut tea/coffee filter at bottom of it, grind coffee correctly. Price / performance is just not there. And I am not saying that any other mentioned "mid range" espresso machine is worth that money.
    - oslem 2y ago
      You could make the same argument about a 250 euro espresso machine and a 30 euro moka pot. If the materials are better and the buyer likes it, it’s worth it to them at least. I think most people who own an espresso machine understand it’s a luxury.
      - bongobingo1 2y ago
        Moka and espresso machines produce different coffee though. They operate on the same principle but the pressures are much different.
        timvdalen 2y ago
ManDeJan 2y ago
A neat project for sure but as it stands this has major safety issues. The control logic is able to lock up and keep the boilers heating element in an forever "on" state till something snaps. I couldn't find a mention of safety in the manual nor see any mechanical safety failsafes in case of overheating.
- cantSpellSober 2y ago
  Yep, love the hacker spirit but the headline reads like "DIY Warhead" to me
- cdaringe 2y ago
  Are you speaking from experience or did you just study the f/w? I agree, gotta have those thermal switches, and they need to result in killing power on threshold breach.
  - ManDeJan 2y ago
    I read the firmware, it's build with the Arduino IDE and PWM for the heater element is bitbanged and updated from the main loop. Meaning it can easily get stuck sending a MQTT message over wifi when it loses connection, causing the heater to possibly be left on indefinitely.
- cruffle_duffle 2y ago
  Lots of 3d printers used to have issues like this with the firmware controlling their hotends. They’d fail on and start a fire. Modern Klipper and Marlin firmware detect wild or unexpected temp swings and pull the “emergency stop” cord to shut it all down. And speaking of safety, old FPV flight control software didn’t handle a very common mistake. It is very easy to put the wrong propeller on a motor. For example you might accidentally put on the counterclockwise propeller on the motor that spins clockwise. The result is when you arm the quad (as in turn on the motors), it flips its shit because the quad starts moving in a completely unexpected way. The flight control software is designed to “lock the angle (attitude) of the quad in and fight any uncommanded deviation”. Well, a backwards prop produces a hell of an uncommanded deviation!! So the controller tells the motor to spin faster to compensate but all that does is make things worse as the backwards prop pushes the thing in the exact wrong way. So it becomes an out of control quad that can and will cause property damage and injury (the propellers on a quad are large, very sharp and attached to very powerful motors. Coming into contact with a spinning propeller will send you to the hospital). This was a big problem in tight spaces like races and stuff. A while ago somebody submitted a pull request that added a safety. When first arms, if the quad starts to behave “wrong” or “unexpected”, it immediately disarms. From what I recall it was actually fairly simple to detect too… if the “error” in the PID loop got too high it means something is very wrong mechanically and it’s best shut down. Countless fingers have no doubt been saved by this patch. It’s probably very similar detection code to what is in 3d printer firmware or espresso machine firmware. If the PID error is “unexpected” something is mechanically wrong and it needs to shut down before Bad Things happen.
yapyap 2y ago
[dead]
dfxm12 2y ago
You can get a similar machine (Quick Mill Carola) for the same price, assembled. To scratch the hacker itch, you can get a much cheaper machine (Gaggia Classic Pro, Rancillio Silvia) and install a PID (a computer to control most of the brewing parameters). I understand the appeal to "hackers", but if you just want coffee, there are more, proven reliable, less expensive, options.
- abakker 2y ago
  I have a quick mill QM67 from 2012...well past 10000 shots in that time and about 5 hours of "On time" per day. since I got it I hacked in a direct plumbing line with a solenoid, and have killed one $29 pump. However, it is probably now in need of a teardown. the brew pressure bypass valve is seized, and there is some scaling/corrosion in the brew head. I've got a machine shop, so I'm tempted to tear the whole thing apart, rewire, and replace the core electronics, but I'm not sure exactly what to do.
- siliconescapee 2y ago
  That's a great deal and a very nice machine, but it isn't really the same in the sense that the Carola is a PID machine, but not a pressure profiling machine. I've used a non-pressure-profiling machine for years, and it's great, but pressure profiles are the current area of innovation for espresso machines and hacking.
- rtaylorgarlock 2y ago
  I'm looking specifically for comments involving GCP and Silvias as I struggle to see a better option for us 'hackers.' Posting a separate comment about the Gagguino project [1] unless I find one. Would be happy to hear of a better path to Decent-level performance. [1]: https://github.com/Zer0-bit/gaggiuino https://github.com/Zer0-bit/gaggiuino
- fanatic2pope 2y ago
  I've had the PID enabled version of Quick Mill Carola for a few years now, and I don't think I would recommend it. The #1 issue for me is the water reservoir and associated fill sensor. The water reservoir is too difficult to refill, too difficult to see how full it is, and the water sensor is really unreliable and will beep loudly and prevent warm up even when the machine is full. I ended up disabling the sensor. I won't be getting rid of my Carola, but I think there are better choices now, something like the ECM Puristika, perhaps.
drrotmos 2y ago
The more I think about the more I feel that this is the wrong solution to the problem. Disclaimer: I'm doing a small open source espresso controller project, check it out if you're interested, but it's not ready for prime time yet: https://github.com/variegated-coffee https://github.com/variegated-coffee. My thinking is that this machine appeals mostly to people who already has an espresso machine. It's not particularly technologically advanced. It's a single boiler, an E61 group and a vibratory pump. If you're buying this machine, you're probably replacing a machine at a similar technology level, and that's not really a sustainable choice. A well maintained espresso machine has a lifespan in the range of decades. Many recent innovations in espresso machines is mostly controllers, sensors and actuators. Also better pumps. These are all things that can easily be retrofitted to an older espresso machine. There has been innovation in other areas not easily retrofittable (saturated groups, dual boilers instead of heat-exchangers, to name a few), but this machine doesn't really feature any of those. I strongly believe that in this particular demographic, it's a much better (more sustainable, cheaper and all around more fun) idea to retrofit new and advanced parts to the espresso machine they presumably already have, than to buy a whole new machine. We don't need old espresso machines on landfills. On the off chance that a prospective buyer doesn't already have a similar espresso machine, this isn't too bad of a choice, and the price is decent, but on the other hand, there are a lot of used machines on the market that are looking for a new owner and can be upgraded.
- RadiozRadioz 2y ago
  I rent a place with an espresso machine, but the next place I'm moving to doesn't have one. I absolutely love tinkering and open source. I like coffee, but I'm not crazy about perfection. I value the experience of building it and owning a self-built thing highly. This is perfect for me. There must be dozens of people like me. Dozens!
- zero_iq 2y ago
  It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. If this was half the price, I might be interested. But if I wanted a coffee maker with open source control, I'd probably just hack an existing cheaper product. And I'm someone who absolutely loves assembling stuff from kits! Heck, I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already got Doom running on a Sage.
its_down_again 2y ago
Honestly, it looks really great. Definitely more polished than what I was expecting from open-source/hacker setup. I've been dailying a Breville dual boiler since 2019, and I've tried a few other machines at coworking spaces and friends' places over the years. For me, as long as I can hit 9 bars with a decent puck extraction, the machine itself doesn’t make a huge difference in flavor. The challenge is finding the right beans, and the fine-tuning through the grinder and puck prep. It's not that my machine struggles to push water through consistently, it's that I struggle to nail the grind size, achieve even particle distribution, and tamp evenly. Mornings especially—I just don’t have steady hands right after waking up. Funny enough, my best shots are usually in the afternoon. Sadly I try to avoid drinking coffee past noon, so it’s often for someone else, and I just take a tax with a tasting spoon. The way I see it, upgrading the machine helps with drinks per hour throughput, not single shot quality. I think that's also why the at-home coffee community is more into things like the niche grinder and blind shaker.
- lycopodiopsida 2y ago
  I would recommend to look for a manual lever - either Flair or Cafelat Robot, or models with a boiler like La Pavoni or Olympia Cremina if milk is required. It is easier to adjust flow and pressure in many cases than grind size. Also you will notice that a flat pressure profile is not that good - you will see and feel when puck start to degrade and you have to go down with pressure. People tend to make science out of everything these days, but you can perfectly go by feel if you have immediate feedback. As a plus, all these machines are incredibly simple, robust and serviceable. The Cremina I've got is from 96 and has all chances to outlive me. The only thing I really would pay attention to is ratio - is can shift the taste a lot between sour and bitter.
mysteria 2y ago
I don't see a license in the Github repo, so currently the code for this machine is only source available and not open source. https://github.com/diyPresso/diyPresso-One https://github.com/diyPresso/diyPresso-One
- jorki 2y ago
  It seems like they have just added a license
  - mysteria 2y ago
    Well there we go. I wonder if they read my comment :)
cdaringe 2y ago
The build timelapse is fun given that the light/shadow gives a strong additional sense of assembly duration.
a012 2y ago
I’m not a really avid espresso person but IMO any decent espresso machine could do the job, the real deal is the coffee grinder. Invest in the highly precision grinder could up scale your espresso shots without an expressive coffee machine.
- criddell 2y ago
  A DIY grinder project might be interesting, but I'm not sure if there are reliable sources for burrs and those would be pretty difficult to make.
  - rtaylorgarlock 2y ago
    I've thought about this. Nice burrs are available, yet the other machined components are less so available. 3d printing will get the project only part of the way for what I'd think of for a real part. My brain is sort of putting a plan together as I'm typing, so perhaps I'll put together a prototype when my brain is less taxed.
fifnir 2y ago
Got hit with a popup to signup to something before I could even read their "splash" message, jesus christ
righthand 2y ago
I am the “self-upgrade my hardware” type. If there’s one piece of advice I didn’t listen to it’s “just buy the nicer machine” for espresso. While it’s fun that I got to upgrade the parts and make it better. It also cost me just as much money. The tinker aspect only involves a few simple upgrades on my Gaggia Classic Pro. But what I didn’t realize is that espresso machines, much like other consumer hobbies was already a fairly expensive area to get invested. You get the machine but then you need a grinder, a milk steaming container, the beans, the tamper, the portafilter mesh screen, a deeper basket, bottomless portafilter, the “better” steamer tip for the wand... On and on you can invest money in this consumer hobby, middle man cornered market. Do you have the special tool to loosen your grounds if you didn’t tamp correctly? You’ll use it once or twice before just dumping out the grounds instead. I have definitely reached my financial limit on the coffee experience. And most of the extra crap I bought bundled. At some point if I continue investing, I would not be saving money from buying a $3 cup of coffee from the cafe and the awkward barista waiting for me to tap the tip screen. When I sell I’ll probably just buy a moka pot and milk steamer of some sort instead.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  Pareto principle. I bought a Gaggia but didn't do all of the extra stuff you mentioned, because I simply don't care enough for marginal returns. That's why a moka pot, which I had before, would still not be a good enough successor, because getting just the Gaggia is enough for most people who want to make espresso, the optimizations you talk about, while I have heard of all of them, are pretty much unnecessary if you are not trying to reach 100% of the output. I am content with 80% good enough results.
  - righthand 2y ago
    The advice though on the market is that if you want a good cup of coffee you need to do more than buy the machine. I agree that the gains are marginal. With a PC, I can upgrade my ram and the gains might be marginal, but I still have a world of free stuff I can install and tinker on it. Once the espresso machine is built/upgraded then that’s it really. You can only buy more things for it. There is no exploratory afterward to enjoy really. I don’t agree that a moka pot wouldn’t be enough. Percolation through a moka pot tastes 10 times better than my Gaggia. My Gaggia has no determination when enough is enough, I have to count to 20-25 seconds each time I want a cup. I once accidentally percolated a cup with it by not refilling the resovoir enough. The little water the boiler was able to pump out was pure steam and it was my best cup of coffee I had with the machine, even if it was maybe detrimental to the machine itself.
pier25 2y ago
Is this a single boiler or hx design? Had a gaggia classic for a couple of years and I would never go back to single boiler.
- arrty88 2y ago
  i wonder if the community can figure a bolt on double boiler solution for this easily?
  - pier25 2y ago
    At some point I will upgrade to a double boiler but I've been happy with an hx machine.
siliconescapee 2y ago
It is a better-than-1200E machine at the end of the day when you look at the components and overall build. It has PID temperature control (typical) but _also_ pressure control. You could build a Gaggiuino for less money and the same effort, but you'd be left with a far lower quality piece of hardware as the Gaggia hardware has a shitty boiler, plumbing, group, and casing. I'm not a huge fan of vibropumps either, but they're common for pressure profiling machines (up to $3-4K) because they're easier to control and compact. Moving to a rotary pump would cost ~$300 more at the component level, so while I'd a reasonable upgrade it would hurt the overall economics of the product to make that standard. I still think it's expensive -- I personally would try to hit the market with a $999 kit cost if at all possible. The market for big spender espresso geeks without a machine is indeed small.
dehrmann 2y ago
9 bars of DIY pressure scares me.
- ziml77 2y ago
  Pretty much my thought seeing this too. I don't know how much I'd ever want to DIY something that deals with steaming hot water at high pressures.
system2 2y ago
I was at the China Trade Expo at the Los Angeles Convention Center 2 days ago. A brand called Java sold automated espresso machines (huge, nearly commercial stuff) for $140. It made a great espresso as well. DIY sounds fun but I'd rather spend $140 and call it a day.
andrewmcwatters 2y ago
I have a Consumer Reports subscription and I’ve seen countless videos on YouTube about espresso machines, but after all these years I still don’t own one. I’m not an enthusiast. I just want a high quality espresso machine that makes consistently good espresso shots. I’m never going to be someone who wants to spend 15-30 minutes on creating a shot of espresso. I’m bewildered that a machine that makes hot water push at high pressure through a puck of grounds costs more than a high-end computer. What do people buy who don’t decant the smell of their own farts who just want an espresso machine? What’s the ATH-M50 or the IBM Model M of espresso machines?
- novafacing 2y ago
  The breville barista line is what you're looking for.
  - andrewmcwatters 2y ago
    Thank you!
avidphantasm 2y ago
Looks cool but for me a manual machine like a Flair is ideal. I don’t have to spend a lot of time or money and I get consistently good espresso.
- triyambakam 2y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation! I was actually looking for an Espresso machine today and the manual operation is very appealing, especially because I want do not yet want to invest a lot.
  - avidphantasm 2y ago
    Nice thing about the Flair is it is very low maintenance. No cleaning (just rinse and dry after use). Just buy new O-rings once a year or so for $8.
- shrx 2y ago
  The downside of all manual espresso machines is that it's difficult to achieve good and consistent head temperatures. Pre-heating takes additional time in the brewing process.
  - turnsout 2y ago
    I feel like this is less of an issue than people fear. I use a Robot, and the heat retention is totally sufficient even without preheating.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
that's sexy af
pipeline_peak 2y ago
A 1,200 € espresso machine you have to put together is………out there. Having an open firmware appliance is cool. But latching that technology onto an espresso machine, something that’s existed for hundreds of years is ridiculous. This device is for tech yuppies. Guys in the Bay Area who can boast about how their espresso was made open source.
Beijinger 2y ago
Nice. But I like this one: https://jankube.de/espresso_einleitung.php https://jankube.de/espresso_einleitung.php [German, but some Espresso porn pics]
tdeck 2y ago
It's interesting that having a serial number tag is listed as a key feature.
jcgrillo 2y ago
Calling this thing "DIY" and shipping a box of prefab components is a little rich... I was expecting to see blueprints for a lever machine or similar not something using a bunch of production components kludged together. That said, not everyone is looking for a machining project, but this is basically "some assembly required" not really my flavor of "DIY".

325 points by ragebol 2y ago

> Build your own espresso machine and configure it with our open source Why even use any software, why can't it be fully analog manual control?

lormayna 2y ago

If you are passionate about Espresso, I really suggest to try Kamira (https://www.espressokamira.com/ https://www.espressokamira.com/). It's very easy to make and maintain and you can have espresso at home like the one in the bar. I am Italian, so coffee is almost a religion for us

wklm 2y ago
Looks cool, but how does it actually differ in functionality from a regular mokka pot? Where is the pressure coming from?
- lormayna 2y ago
  The physical principle is the same as the moka pot, the water boil in the tank and the steam pass through coffee. The main difference is that in the moka the steam flows from down to up and in the kamira from up to down and it's not going to burn the coffee dust. I can assure that the coffee with kamira is exactly like the one that you can taste in a bar.

hedora 2y ago

I’m kind of late to the conversation, but one requirement most home users overlook is using lead free parts. The brass in most high end heads slowly leaches lead into the boiler water. Arguably, this doesn’t matter at a coffee shop, since the boiler turns over the water in a few hours. At home, it takes a month or so. Anyway, I settled on a Flair Classic lever machine (one moving part, all stainless steel and silicone gasket on the water contact path), and previously, a PID kettle. It turns out that water boils at espresso temperature at ~ 2000 ft, so when the PID kettle died, I replaced it with an antique enameled cast iron kettle (my induction range heats it up ridiculously fast). I boil the stainless espresso machine head in the kettle with the espresso water, which achieves the same thing as continuously circulating hot boiler water through it in commercial espresso machines. I put the money I saved on the machine into a small commercial-grade burr grinder (like for the decaf beans at a coffee shop). I haven’t noticed any consistency issues vs. a $3500 machine at work. That thing can crank out four espressos in parallel all day long, but I don’t need that at home.

ragebol 2y ago

Came accross this cool idea. Downside is I don't like coffee, much less espresso

xeromal 2y ago
Great find!

MostlyStable 2y ago

looks like it got hugged to death, and the archive.org snapshots are from when it was "under construction"

arcanemachiner 2y ago
It's loading for me alright. Still seems to be very much under construction. The page for the main product is 404-ing for me. I would provide an archive.is link but it rendered the page VERY poorly. The product looks pretty cool, and I bet it will be pretty expensive. Here's the project's GitHub link (also very early in it's life cycle, hopefully): https://github.com/diyPresso/diyPresso-One https://github.com/diyPresso/diyPresso-One
deleted 2y ago
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wkirby 2y ago

Love it. There’s a surprising amount of hackability in espresso machines — reminds me a lot of bicycles as an approachably fun tinkering project.

Bluecobra 2y ago
Do you know of any resources to help learn bicycles? I wish I could tune my own bicycle but can't seem to figure it out. I can build my own computer, change the oil in my car, paint a house, etc. but my bicycle always befuddles me.
- redsky17 2y ago
  Sheldon Browns website is a treasure trove of information! It’s an old school website, but the content is there. https://www.sheldonbrown.com https://www.sheldonbrown.com
- nick3443 2y ago
  Talk to the folks at your local bike shop, and they can 1) tell you what type of parts your bike has so you can find the right resources 2) refer you to local groups who work on bikes like "bike kitchens" 3) sell you parts and tools you may need. Also, friends who work on bikes are usually happy to help!
  - mauvehaus 2y ago
    > Talk to the folks at your local bike shop... Yes, definitely, but please remember that while we love talking bikes, if you make a habit of discussing the purchase of an $8 set of brake pads for 20 minutes, we'll mysteriously disappear the next time you walk in.
- GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
  Besides Sheldon Brown, look for community bike shops in your area! They often need volunteers to help out with all kinds of things and you’ll get direct exposure to a huge variety of bike tech and really knowledgeable folks who live and breathe bikes.

wkat4242 2y ago

I love espresso. But I don't think I'd be interested in a DIY option. I tend to use Nespresso, especially now that the cups are simply available in the shop (and cheap aftermarket options), it's pretty perfect. I know the manual process is more environmentally friendly but when I wake up in the morning I have no headspace for fussing with coffee grinds. I just need good coffee right away. And I don't even own a car or anything nor have kids so my footprint is pretty low.

kwanbix 2y ago
Aren't these things one of the most contaminant things you can have in the kitchen? Even the inventor regrets doing it. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/k-cup-creator-john-sylvan-regrets-inventing-keurig-coffee-pod-system-1.2982660 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/k-cup-creator-john-sylvan-r... Or is this different?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Nespresso pods are readily recycled aluminium, rather than the plastic of K-Cups.
  - NegativeLatency 2y ago
    How many places actually accept them though? Also nestle is a terrible company for the environment and human rights.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > How many places actually accept them though? The company itself has a recycling program; you can mail them and some stores accept them. > Also nestle is a terrible company for the environment and human rights. Agreed, but so's pretty much everything else we buy.
    - robrtsql 2y ago
      The current status, IIRC, is that recycling in New York accepts Nespresso pods, and in the rest of the US, Nespresso offers free pre-paid shipping bags which you can fill with used pods and drop off at UPS, who will then return them to Nespresso for recycling. They also accept pods at their store locations. Not sure what the deal is in other parts of the world, if Nespresso is sold there.

WillPostForFood 2y ago

This is needed now that Gagguino in a petty bit of drama is no longer offering source code, and locking into hardware suppliers. Gaggiuino Gen 3 is free to use and will offer free software updates, but the source code is no longer available. This decision was made to maintain high standards for the hardware required for the project and prevent individuals from fracturing the community with subpar, non-standard components and processes that were untenable for Gaggiuino’s community-driven support to accommodate. Sincerely, *The GAGGIUINO Team https://gaggiuino.github.io/#/?id=home https://gaggiuino.github.io/#/?id=home

deleted 2y ago
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Arch-TK 2y ago
Honestly the whole Gaggiuino situation is so stupid it's unbelievable. Let's use "Gagguino" to mean "the authors of the original Gagguino" and "Faceuino" to mean "the guy on facebook" just to make it easier to explain the situation: Faceuino started selling his own kit based on the Gaggiuino designs with some modifications. Since the code and the designs (models and PCB) were permissively licensed, this was done at a profit. The kit came with instructions but unfortunately had some issues which caused weird integration problems which increased the support load for Gagguino. Gagguino could have handled this incident normally: Reaching out to Faceuino to explain that his modifications caused integration issues which were causing a support load on Gagguino. And warning Faceuino that unless he handles support for his own commercial venture correctly that Gagguino will officially announce that Faceuino makes broken kits and that people wanting to mod their machine should follow Gagguino routes rather than go to Faceuino. Instead, Gagguino relicensed everything CC-BY-NC, and started on some crusade against profit. Apparently some dude on facebook making a tiny profit selling in the order of tens if not (maybe) hundreds of kits was justification to relicense the entire project, stop development entirely, and start working on a locked down replacement for everything. Now it's a completely proprietary project where you must buy the hardware from approved suppliers. The main control board can still just be normally flashed (meaning you could make a clone of it if you just make your own PCB). But the display unit (which now handles a bunch of the high level stuff) is a pre-flashed ESP-32 module which can only be OTA updated and you cannot flash from stock. Now the website contains silly vague FUD like what you copied above. Meanwhile the discord has stuff like: > *Pre-Activated Software and New LCD Units* > The new software will come pre-activated on all the LCD units, which in are available exclusively through our official suppliers to prevent the scalpeing efforts some people are engaged into. We're launching with a 4.3" LCD version initially but a headless (no screen) version set to follow shortly after. Also considering a smaller LCD version for those who prefer a more compact setup while still keeping a always on system status in front. What scalping? What is being scalped? What? Why can't these people just be honest and state it outright: "We didn't realise what open meant and we think profit should be illegal so we're going to impose a bunch of silly restrictions to try to prevent anyone from making any profit on this mod." I would respect that, instead you get crap like "This decision was made to maintain high standards for the hardware required for the project" What???

nathancahill 2y ago

The closest I've gotten to DIY espresso is EspressoForge: https://espressoforge.com/ https://espressoforge.com/

zemvpferreira 2y ago
Man I’d love to get this semi-affordably in Europe. Such a cool product. I use a Cafelat Robot for my morning brew and it’s consistently the highlight of my day. Manual espresso rules
- kreetx 2y ago
  This thread is a goldmine!
- great_wubwub 2y ago
  Flair Espresso has a similar thing and it looks like they have European distributors. https://flairespresso.com/distributors/ https://flairespresso.com/distributors/ I have the Original and have had it since it was the only thing they made. It's picky but if you get it all dialed right it makes great espresso.
  - evantbyrne 2y ago
    The prices on some of the hand pumps are wild to me. I feel like if I'm going to go the hand pump route, then I shouldn't be paying the same price as a Gaggia Classic Pro.
    - stephencanon 2y ago
      Easy fix, just price out an Olympia Mina and then the other hand pumps will seem cheap by comparison.
- tmoertel 2y ago
  I use a Cafelat Robot in the USA, and I agree it's great. The workflow is simple and streamlined, yet it affords a high degree of control.

avtolik 2y ago

This looks cool and hackable. I wonder though how much control over the pressure you can get with a vibratory pump.

Arch-TK 2y ago
A vibratory pump is very good at controlling pressure as demonstrated by the Decent espresso machine the Gaggiuino mod and whatever that Rancilio Silva mod is called.

wantstothink 2y ago

This is the precipice of fourth-wave coffee. Bringing your desktop computer to a cafe, hooking it up, and remotely brewing a cortado somewhere, in a different time zone.

mynameyeff 2y ago

Looks like your server got the HN hug

bee_rider 2y ago

Sadly the website was knocked out by HN, I guess. Anyway, I really like my Flair. It is fun to press the thing manually. And it is nice to have espresso still during a power outage (as long as I can get ground beans and fire). I think this is a different definition of “do it yourself” though, hahaha.

nephanth 2y ago
Not only is the Flair very nice to use, and does it allow you to make pretty good coffee, It is also the cheapest setup I found to make espresso
ben7799 2y ago
I've had a flair for about 3 years now and love it. Simple, not that expensive, extremely easy to clean and yet has less annoying maintenance than a fancy machine. Extremely unlikely to break. Very good control of the process and very good coffee. Obviously the weakness of the flair is the turnaround time. (I don't have the Flair 58). But I am the only one in my house who actually drinks Espresso. For the amount I drink I don't think the Flair actually takes much more time than a very expensive automatic machine, because I would leave the fancy machine turned on and hot and ready to make coffee.
- martinpw 2y ago
  I find the turnaround time of the Flair a good thing. Firstly it makes a nice 5-10 minute ritual first thing in the morning, especially when combined with a hand grinder. And secondly it is just enough effort that it prevents me from drinking too much espresso which I absolutely would do if I had a more automated process.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    Three shots is the point where I start to get annoyed with the thing and four shots is when I start to get jittery. So, it all worked out.
- bee_rider 2y ago

keane 2y ago

507 server errors but it looks like they've also made one post to Instagram and another to LinkedIn: https://www.instagram.com/diypresso/ https://www.instagram.com/diypresso/ https://www.linkedin.com/posts/pieterraat_aankondiging-nieuw-bedrijf-gelanceerd-activity-7239209827728576512-UZoI https://www.linkedin.com/posts/pieterraat_aankondiging-nieuw...

ReptileMan 2y ago

Off topic - has anyone found cheaper sets of sifts than the kruve. The grind us way more important than the machine.

Arch-TK 2y ago
Sifting and particle size distribution are only one small part of what makes a grinder produce a certain flavour profile.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

This is very cool - website is down for me now but looking at their Instagram post looks like an E61 group head, and espresso-only functionality (no steaming) which simplifies thing a ton. Looks like this would pair really well with a Nanofoamer for people who like milk drinks. I'm definitely tempted!

spzb 2y ago

https://archive.ph/rfQ7W https://archive.ph/rfQ7W

benrutter 2y ago

This is very cool! Sidetrack: the website mentions "driving espresso innovation forwards". Is this a thing? I love coffee but mostly just use a french press or a moka pot (which are more "great old school tech" than "innovation")

eudes_ochoa 2y ago
Oh, yes. Look up the Decent DE1 to see what that means. I will drink moka-pot coffee if that's all that's available, but espresso is what I want to have most days. So I have a good enough grinder and an mid-range espresso machine. It isn't always a success. Sometimes it's sour, sometimes bitter, sometimes too weak. Most of the time I don't have a clue why, so I can't address anything in particular, I can only try changing one of the few variables I can control with my setup, and hope to god that the other ones haven't changed on their own. People are really serious about consistently producing real good espresso. Control and observability are what these machines offer. If you want to fall into the rabbit hole Lance Hendrick's YouTube goes in depth into recent research and technique. And James Hoffman is a similar but more approachable source.
- benrutter 2y ago
  This is a great rabbit hole!! Thanks for sharing
cantSpellSober 2y ago
french press or a moka pot aren't espresso, moka doesn't have the extraction pressure "real" espresso machines have (still quite enjoy them though!).

CAPSLOCKSSTUCK 2y ago

I recently bought a super automatic machine for only $350, and it doesn't include a steam wand (big plus for someone who never makes milk-based drinks). This seems like a fun project but simple off-the-shelf ones are really coming down in price.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
I think this is definitely for a different target market, as super automatics are generally not preferred by folks who I think would appreciate this machine.
GuB-42 2y ago
Comparing a superauto to this machine is like comparing an iPad to a home built desktop PC, a smartphone camera to a DSLR, a Sonos or Bose sound bar to a modular Hi-Fi system, etc... The superauto is more convenient, press a button, get a coffee. And if you put in decent beans, and follow the recommendations regarding cleaning/maintenance, you will most likely get a decent shot. However, it won't last as long, and you will be limited, that is, don't expect to get the perfect cup exactly like you want it. This machine does not compete with consumer-level superautos, it competes with other E-61 "home barista" type machines, which you can also find off-the-shelf.

MostlyStable 2y ago

couldn't find official confirmation anywhere, but that looks like an arduino MKR WiFi 1010, which means it should have wifi for integration with home assistant or something. I realize that the overall process is probably too manual to fully automate, but you could at least turn it on and get the water heating in the morning, I imagine. Although now that I look a little more, according to the quick start guide, wifi isn't yet enabled in the software, although I imagine that means they have plans to. Plus of course, with open source software, I guess it wouldn't be too hard to do yourself. I like this thing! Would love to see James Hoffman review it

pcl 2y ago
I plug my espresso machine into a smart socket, which I then switch on via an automation before I wake up, so the boiler is ready to go for me. I do the same thing with a dumb duct fan. Turns out smart sockets can cover a lot of ground in home automation.

Arch-TK 2y ago

Why E61 though? Strictly the most annoying type of group especially for home use.

Kirby64 2y ago
Was just going to comment on this. Sure it’s “the standard”, but it has so many downsides for home usage. Just stick with the standard 58mm portafilter but ditch the ancient e61.
- criddell 2y ago
  What are the downsides? I had one for about a decade (a heat exchanger machine) and never had any issue with it. I've been thinking about getting back into espresso and an e61 would be something I look for mostly because I'm comfortable with it.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    Broadly speaking, modern espresso groupheads for home use you want to focus on one thing: responsiveness. You want it to react to temperature provided, not resist changes to temperature, and be able to be controlled. E61 groupheads are typically coupled directly to the boiler of the machine via thermosiphon, so they heat up as the machine heats up. This also means that heating up the giant chunk of mass takes ages. Terrible for home use. The E61 grouphead is meant for commercial usage. It's heavy, tons of thermal mass, and has a tendency to overheat if it isn't flushed regularly (or, in the case of a commercial setting, just used... which typically isn't a problem in a commercial setting). For most home usages of E61 machines you need to perform "temperature surfing" to get a great shot from an E61. More modern groupheads don't have such a large thermal mass and tend to be somewhat isolated from the boiler or thermoblock, so you can just heat them directly from a previously pulled shot and be just fine. Again, not to say you can't make good espresso from them. I think there's also some E61 constructions and mitigate some of these issues, but they're not standard in the industry.
dfxm12 2y ago
It's easy to build/find parts.

trumbitta2 2y ago

I thought this was the first one? https://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Coffee/ https://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/Coffee/

stiray 2y ago

Would love to play with it but for this price they can keep it. Dont understand me wrong, love the idea, but selling it for this price is just crazy. Consumers should be more aware that if they can afford something, this doesnt mean it is worth buying it.

klausa 2y ago
I mean, 1250 euros is a lot of money, but that is very much on the lower end of prices for mid-range espresso machines. If you don't like espresso and don't find it valuable, that's fine!
- stiray 2y ago
  Wrong narative. I love espresso. But comparing it with 250 euro espresso machine, I highly doubt that it will make 500% better coffee, for wast majority of the owners, cleaning one < 500 euros machine regularly would make more difference, maybe drying portafilter before use, learning how to equally distribute coffee in portafilter, adding a round cut tea/coffee filter at bottom of it, grind coffee correctly. Price / performance is just not there. And I am not saying that any other mentioned "mid range" espresso machine is worth that money.
  - oslem 2y ago
    You could make the same argument about a 250 euro espresso machine and a 30 euro moka pot. If the materials are better and the buyer likes it, it’s worth it to them at least. I think most people who own an espresso machine understand it’s a luxury.
    - bongobingo1 2y ago
      Moka and espresso machines produce different coffee though. They operate on the same principle but the pressures are much different.
      - timvdalen 2y ago

ManDeJan 2y ago

A neat project for sure but as it stands this has major safety issues. The control logic is able to lock up and keep the boilers heating element in an forever "on" state till something snaps. I couldn't find a mention of safety in the manual nor see any mechanical safety failsafes in case of overheating.

cantSpellSober 2y ago
Yep, love the hacker spirit but the headline reads like "DIY Warhead" to me
cdaringe 2y ago
Are you speaking from experience or did you just study the f/w? I agree, gotta have those thermal switches, and they need to result in killing power on threshold breach.
- ManDeJan 2y ago
  I read the firmware, it's build with the Arduino IDE and PWM for the heater element is bitbanged and updated from the main loop. Meaning it can easily get stuck sending a MQTT message over wifi when it loses connection, causing the heater to possibly be left on indefinitely.
cruffle_duffle 2y ago
Lots of 3d printers used to have issues like this with the firmware controlling their hotends. They’d fail on and start a fire. Modern Klipper and Marlin firmware detect wild or unexpected temp swings and pull the “emergency stop” cord to shut it all down. And speaking of safety, old FPV flight control software didn’t handle a very common mistake. It is very easy to put the wrong propeller on a motor. For example you might accidentally put on the counterclockwise propeller on the motor that spins clockwise. The result is when you arm the quad (as in turn on the motors), it flips its shit because the quad starts moving in a completely unexpected way. The flight control software is designed to “lock the angle (attitude) of the quad in and fight any uncommanded deviation”. Well, a backwards prop produces a hell of an uncommanded deviation!! So the controller tells the motor to spin faster to compensate but all that does is make things worse as the backwards prop pushes the thing in the exact wrong way. So it becomes an out of control quad that can and will cause property damage and injury (the propellers on a quad are large, very sharp and attached to very powerful motors. Coming into contact with a spinning propeller will send you to the hospital). This was a big problem in tight spaces like races and stuff. A while ago somebody submitted a pull request that added a safety. When first arms, if the quad starts to behave “wrong” or “unexpected”, it immediately disarms. From what I recall it was actually fairly simple to detect too… if the “error” in the PID loop got too high it means something is very wrong mechanically and it’s best shut down. Countless fingers have no doubt been saved by this patch. It’s probably very similar detection code to what is in 3d printer firmware or espresso machine firmware. If the PID error is “unexpected” something is mechanically wrong and it needs to shut down before Bad Things happen.

yapyap 2y ago

[dead]

dfxm12 2y ago

You can get a similar machine (Quick Mill Carola) for the same price, assembled. To scratch the hacker itch, you can get a much cheaper machine (Gaggia Classic Pro, Rancillio Silvia) and install a PID (a computer to control most of the brewing parameters). I understand the appeal to "hackers", but if you just want coffee, there are more, proven reliable, less expensive, options.

abakker 2y ago
I have a quick mill QM67 from 2012...well past 10000 shots in that time and about 5 hours of "On time" per day. since I got it I hacked in a direct plumbing line with a solenoid, and have killed one $29 pump. However, it is probably now in need of a teardown. the brew pressure bypass valve is seized, and there is some scaling/corrosion in the brew head. I've got a machine shop, so I'm tempted to tear the whole thing apart, rewire, and replace the core electronics, but I'm not sure exactly what to do.
siliconescapee 2y ago
That's a great deal and a very nice machine, but it isn't really the same in the sense that the Carola is a PID machine, but not a pressure profiling machine. I've used a non-pressure-profiling machine for years, and it's great, but pressure profiles are the current area of innovation for espresso machines and hacking.
rtaylorgarlock 2y ago
I'm looking specifically for comments involving GCP and Silvias as I struggle to see a better option for us 'hackers.' Posting a separate comment about the Gagguino project [1] unless I find one. Would be happy to hear of a better path to Decent-level performance. [1]: https://github.com/Zer0-bit/gaggiuino https://github.com/Zer0-bit/gaggiuino
fanatic2pope 2y ago
I've had the PID enabled version of Quick Mill Carola for a few years now, and I don't think I would recommend it. The #1 issue for me is the water reservoir and associated fill sensor. The water reservoir is too difficult to refill, too difficult to see how full it is, and the water sensor is really unreliable and will beep loudly and prevent warm up even when the machine is full. I ended up disabling the sensor. I won't be getting rid of my Carola, but I think there are better choices now, something like the ECM Puristika, perhaps.

drrotmos 2y ago

The more I think about the more I feel that this is the wrong solution to the problem. Disclaimer: I'm doing a small open source espresso controller project, check it out if you're interested, but it's not ready for prime time yet: https://github.com/variegated-coffee https://github.com/variegated-coffee. My thinking is that this machine appeals mostly to people who already has an espresso machine. It's not particularly technologically advanced. It's a single boiler, an E61 group and a vibratory pump. If you're buying this machine, you're probably replacing a machine at a similar technology level, and that's not really a sustainable choice. A well maintained espresso machine has a lifespan in the range of decades. Many recent innovations in espresso machines is mostly controllers, sensors and actuators. Also better pumps. These are all things that can easily be retrofitted to an older espresso machine. There has been innovation in other areas not easily retrofittable (saturated groups, dual boilers instead of heat-exchangers, to name a few), but this machine doesn't really feature any of those. I strongly believe that in this particular demographic, it's a much better (more sustainable, cheaper and all around more fun) idea to retrofit new and advanced parts to the espresso machine they presumably already have, than to buy a whole new machine. We don't need old espresso machines on landfills. On the off chance that a prospective buyer doesn't already have a similar espresso machine, this isn't too bad of a choice, and the price is decent, but on the other hand, there are a lot of used machines on the market that are looking for a new owner and can be upgraded.

RadiozRadioz 2y ago
I rent a place with an espresso machine, but the next place I'm moving to doesn't have one. I absolutely love tinkering and open source. I like coffee, but I'm not crazy about perfection. I value the experience of building it and owning a self-built thing highly. This is perfect for me. There must be dozens of people like me. Dozens!
zero_iq 2y ago
It's also at least as expensive as more advanced machines you can buy already-assembled. If this was half the price, I might be interested. But if I wanted a coffee maker with open source control, I'd probably just hack an existing cheaper product. And I'm someone who absolutely loves assembling stuff from kits! Heck, I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already got Doom running on a Sage.

its_down_again 2y ago

Honestly, it looks really great. Definitely more polished than what I was expecting from open-source/hacker setup. I've been dailying a Breville dual boiler since 2019, and I've tried a few other machines at coworking spaces and friends' places over the years. For me, as long as I can hit 9 bars with a decent puck extraction, the machine itself doesn’t make a huge difference in flavor. The challenge is finding the right beans, and the fine-tuning through the grinder and puck prep. It's not that my machine struggles to push water through consistently, it's that I struggle to nail the grind size, achieve even particle distribution, and tamp evenly. Mornings especially—I just don’t have steady hands right after waking up. Funny enough, my best shots are usually in the afternoon. Sadly I try to avoid drinking coffee past noon, so it’s often for someone else, and I just take a tax with a tasting spoon. The way I see it, upgrading the machine helps with drinks per hour throughput, not single shot quality. I think that's also why the at-home coffee community is more into things like the niche grinder and blind shaker.

lycopodiopsida 2y ago
I would recommend to look for a manual lever - either Flair or Cafelat Robot, or models with a boiler like La Pavoni or Olympia Cremina if milk is required. It is easier to adjust flow and pressure in many cases than grind size. Also you will notice that a flat pressure profile is not that good - you will see and feel when puck start to degrade and you have to go down with pressure. People tend to make science out of everything these days, but you can perfectly go by feel if you have immediate feedback. As a plus, all these machines are incredibly simple, robust and serviceable. The Cremina I've got is from 96 and has all chances to outlive me. The only thing I really would pay attention to is ratio - is can shift the taste a lot between sour and bitter.

mysteria 2y ago

I don't see a license in the Github repo, so currently the code for this machine is only source available and not open source. https://github.com/diyPresso/diyPresso-One https://github.com/diyPresso/diyPresso-One

jorki 2y ago
It seems like they have just added a license
- mysteria 2y ago
  Well there we go. I wonder if they read my comment :)

cdaringe 2y ago

The build timelapse is fun given that the light/shadow gives a strong additional sense of assembly duration.

a012 2y ago

I’m not a really avid espresso person but IMO any decent espresso machine could do the job, the real deal is the coffee grinder. Invest in the highly precision grinder could up scale your espresso shots without an expressive coffee machine.

criddell 2y ago
A DIY grinder project might be interesting, but I'm not sure if there are reliable sources for burrs and those would be pretty difficult to make.
- rtaylorgarlock 2y ago
  I've thought about this. Nice burrs are available, yet the other machined components are less so available. 3d printing will get the project only part of the way for what I'd think of for a real part. My brain is sort of putting a plan together as I'm typing, so perhaps I'll put together a prototype when my brain is less taxed.

fifnir 2y ago

Got hit with a popup to signup to something before I could even read their "splash" message, jesus christ

righthand 2y ago

I am the “self-upgrade my hardware” type. If there’s one piece of advice I didn’t listen to it’s “just buy the nicer machine” for espresso. While it’s fun that I got to upgrade the parts and make it better. It also cost me just as much money. The tinker aspect only involves a few simple upgrades on my Gaggia Classic Pro. But what I didn’t realize is that espresso machines, much like other consumer hobbies was already a fairly expensive area to get invested. You get the machine but then you need a grinder, a milk steaming container, the beans, the tamper, the portafilter mesh screen, a deeper basket, bottomless portafilter, the “better” steamer tip for the wand... On and on you can invest money in this consumer hobby, middle man cornered market. Do you have the special tool to loosen your grounds if you didn’t tamp correctly? You’ll use it once or twice before just dumping out the grounds instead. I have definitely reached my financial limit on the coffee experience. And most of the extra crap I bought bundled. At some point if I continue investing, I would not be saving money from buying a $3 cup of coffee from the cafe and the awkward barista waiting for me to tap the tip screen. When I sell I’ll probably just buy a moka pot and milk steamer of some sort instead.

satvikpendem 2y ago
Pareto principle. I bought a Gaggia but didn't do all of the extra stuff you mentioned, because I simply don't care enough for marginal returns. That's why a moka pot, which I had before, would still not be a good enough successor, because getting just the Gaggia is enough for most people who want to make espresso, the optimizations you talk about, while I have heard of all of them, are pretty much unnecessary if you are not trying to reach 100% of the output. I am content with 80% good enough results.
- righthand 2y ago
  The advice though on the market is that if you want a good cup of coffee you need to do more than buy the machine. I agree that the gains are marginal. With a PC, I can upgrade my ram and the gains might be marginal, but I still have a world of free stuff I can install and tinker on it. Once the espresso machine is built/upgraded then that’s it really. You can only buy more things for it. There is no exploratory afterward to enjoy really. I don’t agree that a moka pot wouldn’t be enough. Percolation through a moka pot tastes 10 times better than my Gaggia. My Gaggia has no determination when enough is enough, I have to count to 20-25 seconds each time I want a cup. I once accidentally percolated a cup with it by not refilling the resovoir enough. The little water the boiler was able to pump out was pure steam and it was my best cup of coffee I had with the machine, even if it was maybe detrimental to the machine itself.

pier25 2y ago

Is this a single boiler or hx design? Had a gaggia classic for a couple of years and I would never go back to single boiler.

arrty88 2y ago
i wonder if the community can figure a bolt on double boiler solution for this easily?
- pier25 2y ago
  At some point I will upgrade to a double boiler but I've been happy with an hx machine.

siliconescapee 2y ago

It is a better-than-1200E machine at the end of the day when you look at the components and overall build. It has PID temperature control (typical) but _also_ pressure control. You could build a Gaggiuino for less money and the same effort, but you'd be left with a far lower quality piece of hardware as the Gaggia hardware has a shitty boiler, plumbing, group, and casing. I'm not a huge fan of vibropumps either, but they're common for pressure profiling machines (up to $3-4K) because they're easier to control and compact. Moving to a rotary pump would cost ~$300 more at the component level, so while I'd a reasonable upgrade it would hurt the overall economics of the product to make that standard. I still think it's expensive -- I personally would try to hit the market with a $999 kit cost if at all possible. The market for big spender espresso geeks without a machine is indeed small.

dehrmann 2y ago

9 bars of DIY pressure scares me.

ziml77 2y ago
Pretty much my thought seeing this too. I don't know how much I'd ever want to DIY something that deals with steaming hot water at high pressures.

system2 2y ago

I was at the China Trade Expo at the Los Angeles Convention Center 2 days ago. A brand called Java sold automated espresso machines (huge, nearly commercial stuff) for $140. It made a great espresso as well. DIY sounds fun but I'd rather spend $140 and call it a day.

andrewmcwatters 2y ago

I have a Consumer Reports subscription and I’ve seen countless videos on YouTube about espresso machines, but after all these years I still don’t own one. I’m not an enthusiast. I just want a high quality espresso machine that makes consistently good espresso shots. I’m never going to be someone who wants to spend 15-30 minutes on creating a shot of espresso. I’m bewildered that a machine that makes hot water push at high pressure through a puck of grounds costs more than a high-end computer. What do people buy who don’t decant the smell of their own farts who just want an espresso machine? What’s the ATH-M50 or the IBM Model M of espresso machines?

novafacing 2y ago
The breville barista line is what you're looking for.
- andrewmcwatters 2y ago
  Thank you!

avidphantasm 2y ago

Looks cool but for me a manual machine like a Flair is ideal. I don’t have to spend a lot of time or money and I get consistently good espresso.

triyambakam 2y ago
Thanks for the recommendation! I was actually looking for an Espresso machine today and the manual operation is very appealing, especially because I want do not yet want to invest a lot.
- avidphantasm 2y ago
  Nice thing about the Flair is it is very low maintenance. No cleaning (just rinse and dry after use). Just buy new O-rings once a year or so for $8.
shrx 2y ago
The downside of all manual espresso machines is that it's difficult to achieve good and consistent head temperatures. Pre-heating takes additional time in the brewing process.
- turnsout 2y ago
  I feel like this is less of an issue than people fear. I use a Robot, and the heat retention is totally sufficient even without preheating.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

that's sexy af

pipeline_peak 2y ago

A 1,200 € espresso machine you have to put together is………out there. Having an open firmware appliance is cool. But latching that technology onto an espresso machine, something that’s existed for hundreds of years is ridiculous. This device is for tech yuppies. Guys in the Bay Area who can boast about how their espresso was made open source.

Beijinger 2y ago

Nice. But I like this one: https://jankube.de/espresso_einleitung.php https://jankube.de/espresso_einleitung.php [German, but some Espresso porn pics]

tdeck 2y ago

It's interesting that having a serial number tag is listed as a key feature.

jcgrillo 2y ago

Calling this thing "DIY" and shipping a box of prefab components is a little rich... I was expecting to see blueprints for a lever machine or similar not something using a bunch of production components kludged together. That said, not everyone is looking for a machining project, but this is basically "some assembly required" not really my flavor of "DIY".