7 ms·

I have had very high (3x upper limit normal or more) levels of fecal secretory IgA ever since I took antibiotics in 2014. Also numerous health issues and allerg

I have had very high (3x upper limit normal or more) levels of fecal secretory IgA ever since I took antibiotics in 2014. Also numerous health issues and allergies that developed ever since. Nothing has seemed to really work. I have to take antihistamines just to not feel like I need to go to the emergency room from reacting to things all the time. Pretty tilting since I developed these problems at such a young age. It felt like it completely robbed my life from me. And I'm fairly certain the antibiotics did it because the problems literally just developed in the months following, and some almost immediately after taking them. One of the drugs, ciprofloxacin, seemed to cause severe connective tissue problems that are actually permanent. It is over 10 years later and I still extremely readily tear tendons and ligaments, when before I took them I never once had any problems with any of my tendons or ligaments no matter what I did and no matter how often I did it. My first tendon issues ever were the month after taking it.

OutOfHere 2y ago
Did you bother taking or trying some good probiotics and maybe prebiotics? How about L-glutamine, collagen hydrolysate, vitamin C, MSM, glucosamine, chondroitin? Also quercetin. There is a newssurvey software that you can use to do some automated survey of what's out there (if you don't want to do it manually). My experience with antibiotics has been the opposite, that they have saved me more times than one, but then I never used ciprofloxacin.
- Madmallard 2y ago
  I have tried everything
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    Probiotic products can be very diverse in their coverage and usefulness. The one I like is Epic Pro 25. In any case, how about folate as Quatrefolic? It has shown relevance in a related issue such as Ehlers-danlos affecting connective tissue. It is unclear if your homocysteine level is normal or not, but if it's not, it can probably be resolved by various B vitamins in good forms and doses. In any case, I doubt you have tried newssurvey software to do a survey on: 1. What causes ciprofloxacin (or its class fluoroquinolones) to harm connective tissues? 2. What is its resolutions, whether pharmacological or nutritional or via supplements, or anything else?
    - ziggyzecat 2y ago
      > 1. What causes ciprofloxacin (or its class fluoroquinolones) to harm connective tissues? mTOR Signaling Fluoroquinolones are known to affect the mTOR (mammalian target of rapamycin) pathway, which is critical for protein synthesis, cell growth, and tissue repair. mTOR integrates signals from nutrients, growth factors, and energy status to regulate cellular anabolic processes like collagen synthesis and fibroblast activity. However, fluoroquinolones can induce oxidative stress and mitochondrial dysfunction, which may disrupt normal mTOR signaling. This interference can impair the normal anabolic functions of mTOR, potentially leading to diminished protein synthesis and weakened connective tissue repair. Mitochondrial Dysfunction Fluoroquinolones can damage mitochondrial DNA, which may reduce ATP production and impair cellular energy homeostasis. Since mTOR activity is energy-dependent, reduced ATP availability could downregulate mTOR signaling, inhibiting processes like fibroblast proliferation and collagen synthesis. This could explain the tendinopathy and cartilage damage sometimes associated with fluoroquinolone use. Collagen Synthesis and Matrix Remodeling The anabolic processes that support collagen production and extracellular matrix (ECM) remodeling are crucial for connective tissue integrity. Fluoroquinolones have been observed to impair collagen synthesis by disrupting the fibroblast function, and this may be due to their impact on the energy-intensive processes governed by mTOR. Fluoroquinolones have also been reported to cause central nervous system (CNS) effects, including anxiety, tremors, and other neurological symptoms, suggesting an impact on adrenergic pathways. This dysregulation could interfere with normal stress adaptation mechanisms, including the modulation of inflammatory and regenerative processes in connective tissues. Connective tissue healing depends on the body’s capacity to manage energy demands and stress responses during recovery. Fluoroquinolones can impair mitochondrial function and create an energy deficit at the cellular level, reducing the ability of fibroblasts to engage in critical processes like collagen synthesis and ECM remodeling. The systemic impact on both dopaminergic and adrenergic systems can further weaken the body’s ability to manage stress and energy during recovery, exacerbating the negative effects on tissue repair. Fibroblasts and Collagen Production Fibroblasts are the key cells responsible for producing collagen in connective tissues. Under conditions of oxidative stress and energy depletion, fibroblasts may enter a senescent state, reducing their capacity for collagen synthesis and matrix repair. This can lead to weakened connective tissue and increased susceptibility to injuries like tendon ruptures, which have been reported with fluoroquinolone use. Collagen and Tendon Health Fluoroquinolone-induced dysregulation of cell signaling, energy metabolism, and oxidative stress management all converge on a critical issue: the weakening of collagen structure and connective tissue integrity. This has been particularly evident in the association between fluoroquinolones and tendinopathy or tendon rupture, likely linked to the disruption of collagen synthesis, the downregulation of mTOR, and the stress on connective tissue cells such as fibroblasts. Some Sources: [ ] https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/130/1/39/5366272 https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/130/1/39/5366272 [ ] https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2016/ra/c6ra19454k https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2016/ra/c6ra1... [ ] https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physiology/articles/10.3389/fphys.2013.00324/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physiology/articles/10.... [ ] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10056716/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10056716/
  - ziggyzecat 2y ago
    Have you tried a 3 to 6 month long retreat at an organic farm with no supps and only the meds that you really need? You can bring your gear and build games there, too. I wanted to dive into the production of all the different supps for a while but intuition tells me it'll end up in some reverse confirmation bias aka "job security and esoterically enhanced anti-pla-no-cebo thinking" ... and that kills my mood.
lurking15 2y ago
Even if you never got a SIBO diagnosis, look into the mBiota elemental diet course they offer. 2 weeks of it has been proven to normalize the gut microbiome for SIBO patients (methane & hydrogen). I also had a very negative reaction to ciprofloxacin and later moxifloxacin (I took them for different infections). In any case, I haven’t suffered tendon issues just neurological effects (hard to describe how my cognition changed but I was simply unable to sleep for several days until I stopped the medication prematurely).
Melatonic 2y ago
Sounds possibly like Ankylosing Spondylitis. I'm no doctor though
- Madmallard 2y ago
  I've had the full-scale workup. Nothing. But the inflammation and other issues are plainly visible in the tendons.
  - Melatonic 2y ago
    If it's not AS then no idea - I assume they did the gene testing and whatnot. Lot of people swear by this odd Japanese fermented food called Natto - might help. It's basically just soybeans. Uses a very unique bacteria though. Most Asian markets have it
nobrains 2y ago
You took antibiotics because you had an infection. How do you know the issues that you started to have were due to the antibiotics and not due to the infection? (I am in the same boat, BTW, so asking this question to get to the root cause of my problem as well)
- Madmallard 2y ago
  impossible to know if it isn't a combination for some things but connective tissue symptoms don't really manifest from infection I had a UTI/prostatitis doubtful that causes the symptoms I developed

OutOfHere 2y ago

Did you bother taking or trying some good probiotics and maybe prebiotics? How about L-glutamine, collagen hydrolysate, vitamin C, MSM, glucosamine, chondroitin? Also quercetin. There is a newssurvey software that you can use to do some automated survey of what's out there (if you don't want to do it manually). My experience with antibiotics has been the opposite, that they have saved me more times than one, but then I never used ciprofloxacin.

Madmallard 2y ago
I have tried everything
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  Probiotic products can be very diverse in their coverage and usefulness. The one I like is Epic Pro 25. In any case, how about folate as Quatrefolic? It has shown relevance in a related issue such as Ehlers-danlos affecting connective tissue. It is unclear if your homocysteine level is normal or not, but if it's not, it can probably be resolved by various B vitamins in good forms and doses. In any case, I doubt you have tried newssurvey software to do a survey on: 1. What causes ciprofloxacin (or its class fluoroquinolones) to harm connective tissues? 2. What is its resolutions, whether pharmacological or nutritional or via supplements, or anything else?
  - ziggyzecat 2y ago
    > 1. What causes ciprofloxacin (or its class fluoroquinolones) to harm connective tissues? mTOR Signaling Fluoroquinolones are known to affect the mTOR (mammalian target of rapamycin) pathway, which is critical for protein synthesis, cell growth, and tissue repair. mTOR integrates signals from nutrients, growth factors, and energy status to regulate cellular anabolic processes like collagen synthesis and fibroblast activity. However, fluoroquinolones can induce oxidative stress and mitochondrial dysfunction, which may disrupt normal mTOR signaling. This interference can impair the normal anabolic functions of mTOR, potentially leading to diminished protein synthesis and weakened connective tissue repair. Mitochondrial Dysfunction Fluoroquinolones can damage mitochondrial DNA, which may reduce ATP production and impair cellular energy homeostasis. Since mTOR activity is energy-dependent, reduced ATP availability could downregulate mTOR signaling, inhibiting processes like fibroblast proliferation and collagen synthesis. This could explain the tendinopathy and cartilage damage sometimes associated with fluoroquinolone use. Collagen Synthesis and Matrix Remodeling The anabolic processes that support collagen production and extracellular matrix (ECM) remodeling are crucial for connective tissue integrity. Fluoroquinolones have been observed to impair collagen synthesis by disrupting the fibroblast function, and this may be due to their impact on the energy-intensive processes governed by mTOR. Fluoroquinolones have also been reported to cause central nervous system (CNS) effects, including anxiety, tremors, and other neurological symptoms, suggesting an impact on adrenergic pathways. This dysregulation could interfere with normal stress adaptation mechanisms, including the modulation of inflammatory and regenerative processes in connective tissues. Connective tissue healing depends on the body’s capacity to manage energy demands and stress responses during recovery. Fluoroquinolones can impair mitochondrial function and create an energy deficit at the cellular level, reducing the ability of fibroblasts to engage in critical processes like collagen synthesis and ECM remodeling. The systemic impact on both dopaminergic and adrenergic systems can further weaken the body’s ability to manage stress and energy during recovery, exacerbating the negative effects on tissue repair. Fibroblasts and Collagen Production Fibroblasts are the key cells responsible for producing collagen in connective tissues. Under conditions of oxidative stress and energy depletion, fibroblasts may enter a senescent state, reducing their capacity for collagen synthesis and matrix repair. This can lead to weakened connective tissue and increased susceptibility to injuries like tendon ruptures, which have been reported with fluoroquinolone use. Collagen and Tendon Health Fluoroquinolone-induced dysregulation of cell signaling, energy metabolism, and oxidative stress management all converge on a critical issue: the weakening of collagen structure and connective tissue integrity. This has been particularly evident in the association between fluoroquinolones and tendinopathy or tendon rupture, likely linked to the disruption of collagen synthesis, the downregulation of mTOR, and the stress on connective tissue cells such as fibroblasts. Some Sources: [ ] https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/130/1/39/5366272 https://academic.oup.com/bmb/article/130/1/39/5366272 [ ] https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2016/ra/c6ra19454k https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2016/ra/c6ra1... [ ] https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physiology/articles/10.3389/fphys.2013.00324/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physiology/articles/10.... [ ] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10056716/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10056716/
- ziggyzecat 2y ago
  Have you tried a 3 to 6 month long retreat at an organic farm with no supps and only the meds that you really need? You can bring your gear and build games there, too. I wanted to dive into the production of all the different supps for a while but intuition tells me it'll end up in some reverse confirmation bias aka "job security and esoterically enhanced anti-pla-no-cebo thinking" ... and that kills my mood.

lurking15 2y ago

Even if you never got a SIBO diagnosis, look into the mBiota elemental diet course they offer. 2 weeks of it has been proven to normalize the gut microbiome for SIBO patients (methane & hydrogen). I also had a very negative reaction to ciprofloxacin and later moxifloxacin (I took them for different infections). In any case, I haven’t suffered tendon issues just neurological effects (hard to describe how my cognition changed but I was simply unable to sleep for several days until I stopped the medication prematurely).

Melatonic 2y ago

Sounds possibly like Ankylosing Spondylitis. I'm no doctor though

Madmallard 2y ago
I've had the full-scale workup. Nothing. But the inflammation and other issues are plainly visible in the tendons.
- Melatonic 2y ago
  If it's not AS then no idea - I assume they did the gene testing and whatnot. Lot of people swear by this odd Japanese fermented food called Natto - might help. It's basically just soybeans. Uses a very unique bacteria though. Most Asian markets have it

nobrains 2y ago

You took antibiotics because you had an infection. How do you know the issues that you started to have were due to the antibiotics and not due to the infection? (I am in the same boat, BTW, so asking this question to get to the root cause of my problem as well)

Madmallard 2y ago
impossible to know if it isn't a combination for some things but connective tissue symptoms don't really manifest from infection I had a UTI/prostatitis doubtful that causes the symptoms I developed