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Uber drivers in Kenya are ignoring the app and charging their own rates
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- aranelsurion 2y agoSo they basically reinvented taxi again, with the added captive audience factor coming from abusing the platform.
- beaglesss 2y agoAlways carry an object capable of smashing out a window when you ride in a 3rd world taxi
- more_corn 2y agoHow does this help when traveling at speed? I’m trying to come to terms with the threat (kidnapped?) and response (break a window and then what)?
- beaglesss 2y agoI admit my taxi experience is limited to Mexico, Paraguay, Iraq, Syria, and the Philippines. But in each one of those traffic control was so broken you couldn't have gone more than 2 blocks off course without the chaos forcing a stop or slowdown.
- caterama 2y agoMost cars come with window smashing equipment included! The headrest and seat belt buckle can both be used to break a window: https://carroar.com/how-to-break-a-car-window/ https://carroar.com/how-to-break-a-car-window/
- vinay427 2y agoOn the off chance car culture in Kenya is anything like in India (which I would not assume by default), at least a decent few will have headrests covered by a seat cover and rear seat belts stuck behind the seat or otherwise unavailable.
- givemeethekeys 2y agoNo one I know across many, many 3rd world countries has ever done this or recommended it. I suggest learning how to vet the driver before getting into the vehicle. For example, does the driver and car's plates and description match what's in the app?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- kylehotchkiss 2y agoWhy? They don't have child locks on the doors. You're gonna be stuck trying to explain to somebody why you think it's OK to carry around a life hammer when you inevitably have to go through a metal detector. Plus cars in developing countries aren't built as heavily as ones in the west - you could probably just kick the window out if you need to. Just don't wear flip flops everywhere. You're probably going to be some level of taller/wider/stronger than the driver too if you're a western tourist in a developing country. I've ridden in thousands of developing country cabs. Most drivers are normal people just trying to get by and won't try anything.
- beaglesss 2y agoI was trapped by an armed man once when I was a kid and ever since then I have always had a backup plan to escape. Most taxi drivers are honest good people, some aren't. The only people that have jammed me up were US CBP, in my experience foreign customs knows their country is fucked and will let most non-gun metal objects slide. It's mostly nanny states that jam you up for a hammer.
- mrgoldenbrown 2y agoDon't know about developing countries but in the US (Boston) I have encountered cabs with the rear door lock mechanism broken so that we couldn't get out until the driver unlocked the doors. Luckily I wasn't by myself but it was creepy.
- Bnjoroge 2y agogotta include the US in this as well lmao
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- beaglesss 2y agoThis makes no sense,why wouldn't Uber just increase rates and take a cut rather than let the drivers eat their lunch? What incentive do they have to charge less than the market will bear?
- garciasn 2y agoGiving in to collective action by the drivers, of which they are diametrically opposed. If they raise the rates, taking the cut or not, they are allowing the drivers to 'win' in their mind. So, in this case, Uber receives little blowback and passes it directly on to the riders who are either unaware, uncaring and/or willing to deal w/the drivers negotiating on top of the advertised rates. e: corrected spelling of blowback; whoops
- Manuel_D 2y agoUber still benefits via a bigger cut from higher rates, so long as that's the market rate that people are willing to pay (if they start getting undercut by a competitor that's a different story). In my view, the fact that taxi drivers can charge extra and people are paying it shows that Uber was priced too low.
- kjkjadksj 2y agoWhatever rate they ask the driver can undercut them. Driver gets a fraction of the ride. Even if they undercut uber the driver gets more take negotiating directly with the customer. I will do this sometimes when uber is surging if the driver is willing to take cash.
- throwaway201606 2y agoFor this particular market, they are not charging less than the market will bear, they are charging all they can. They have to keep taking an 'L' specifically because there is extreme efficiency in price information discoverability in a commodity market. Explaining: Some background info: - almost all drivers are signed up with all services [ ie i) Lyft, Uber - which are global & ii) Faras, Bolt which are international but Africa only I think ] - riders have all apps and will price shop on every single app before booking a trip because it will be the same freaking vehicle and driver (ie literally the same service because of item above) - ride prices are pretty expensive relative to local earnings: take for example, that first item (Minimum to and from JKIA, which is the main airport in Nairobi). It is 1000kshs which is about $8 - not a big amount in the west but is a bit of coin in Kenya - a day;. If I can get the same ride for $6, it is kind of a big deal because it means I can maybe also get a meal from the ride savings - estimates say apps takes 30% (20% commission and 10% booking fee) and this is off the top of the payment So, the rides are a fungible commodity. It is the same ride, all you are choosing is whom to buy it from Consider Bob looking for a ride to the airport: he looks at all 4 apps ( Uber, Lyft, Faras and Bolt), finds the cheapest one (Alice, on say the app HNewsRides) at Kshs 800 (~$6) and books that (since it is the same freaking car and driver as all drivers all use all the apps! Note that they can also sorta see - based on proximity and time to arrival for pickup - that the same ride with Alice would cost Kshs 900 on AppA, Kshs 1000 on AppB, Kshs 950 on AppD etc ) Even worse, after Bob has taken a couple of rides with Alice, and they know each other a little better, they will establish a relationship and exchange phone numbers so that Bob will just reach out to Alice directly and cut out the middle man ( apps ) because Alice will charge them the app amount less say 25% (because there is no cut for the app now). Bob gets a 10%-20% discount on the ride and Alice (the driver ) gets 20% more for the ride. This means that apps have to cut prices again to compete ad infinatum till every ride is free (or the apps are paying riders to get market share and then jack prices, which they have done ) So, the real problem is extreme information availability and a multitude of players. If there were just one or two apps, price management is easier but with 4+ players, price competition is the name of the game. About the "it will be the same driver and vehicle" thing: this is a quirk of the Kenyan market. If an ride is showing as less than 5 mins away from you on all apps, it is likely to be a situation where it is just one specific car and driver across all apps. Nairobi has horrendous all day traffic. Really bad. Think your worst nightmare traffic and multiply by two. Two cars separated by as little as 1 mile could have as much as a 10 min difference in estimated arrival times because of traffic. So, if a vehicle says "5 mins away" in 4 different apps, you can relatively safely assume it is the same vehicle listed on across all apps.
- twelve40 2y agoIt always amazed me how Uber was able to quickly force itself into the most criminal markets (which in poorer countries is typically anything that has to do with taxis). But in hindsight, after a quick surprise win worldwide, they were eventually forced out. In Russia, weirdly enough, not by criminals but by a quasi-state company, starting back in 2018. In parts of Mexico, by what seems like outright criminals and collusion. In Turkey, sometimes works, but often seems ignored. Wonder how they were able to launch in complicated markets to begin with.
- notyourwork 2y agoHow? Likely bribes. No way around it in parts of the world. Have to grease the wheels of diplomacy.
- haliskerbas 2y agoIncluding the US, but here bribes are legal, it's called lobbying!
- infamouscow 2y agoThe places that don't have bribery call it lobbying. That way, the politicians can look down on other governments for the lack of sophistication in their corruption.
- Y_Y 2y ago
- danielfoster 2y agoI remember using Uber in Kenya. Half the time, I had to reject the ride because the license plate on the car did not match the app.
- pcurve 2y agoKilimani to jkir is about 20 km and a bit over half hour ride. Their published rate is about 16 bucks. A longer 52km ride is about 38 bucks. It’s cheap by western. Not sure how it fares against other comparable countries.
- zo1 2y agoI just did a few calcs for here in South Africa, and the prices you mentioned are about 2.1x as much than what it costs to get an UberX/Go trip here. Or the same price as what I'd pay for a "luxury" Uber Black ride. This is just taxis doing what taxis always eventually do. This whole gimmick of "we can't afford to live at these rates" is just whining because they don't like their earnings at the end of the day. I'm all for a fair price that takes into account all the costs involved and a fair margin ontop so it's a livable and respectful wage. But what Taxis eventually do is not it, they want a certain lifestyle and salary that they've been used to before ride-shares came about, and they'll eventually get violent (like they did here in SA) till they get it. Fun story, I was in an Uber here once and got chased-down by an angry taxi driver when they saw me being picked up by an Uber driver from a "protected" tourist spot.
- dzonga 2y agoat a famous JHB spot - it's a no go area for Ubers. so you've to get a taxi and get dropped off at some gas station. then get an uber from there, otherwise taxi fees will be massive.
- Bnjoroge 2y agoVisited CapeTown and Egypt. It's actually a lot cheaper in Kenya, especially for short rides.
- paxys 2y agoDrivers have creative ways of getting around rules in most markets. In India when you get a ride assigned the driver will first call you and check where you are going, and cancel the ride (or ask for extra money) if the amount or destination is not to their liking. This happens here in the US as well. Especially for food delivery apps, the driver shown on the app will rarely be the person who actually does the delivery. This is because people create accounts and sell them to others who don't have legal status, and take a cut of their earnings.
- nesky 2y agoNever considered this before but I'd be curious if the delivery apps have data where they can tell which drivers are using this tactic.
- dawnerd 2y agoThat last part also happens for rides too. Has happened to me multiple times in Orlando to the point where I’ll just call a Mears taxi instead - ends up being cheaper anyways.
- johncessna 2y agoThis used to be very common in the US especially around airports where drivers wait for up to an hour to get a fare and want to make sure it's worth the wait. It may still be happening, but I just go straight for the cab to avoid the hassle.
- lxgr 2y agoThe US airport rideshare model (if you even want to call a largely emergent phenomenon that) must be one of the most wasteful things in transportation ever. Why do I have to wait for, and find, my specific Uber/Lyft out of a sea of otherwise identical ones that are all in each other's way, all while idling and wasting tons of fuel? (I know that the legal answer is "taxi medallions"; that doesn't make it any less absurd.)
- paxys 2y ago
- wing-_-nuts 2y agoI don't understand. What's to stop an uber customer from just flat out refusing and reporting the driver (and eventually getting them kicked off the platform)? If I am quoted a rate, I expect to pay that rate.
- nine_zeros 2y agoUber doesn't take much action on reported drivers because they run out of drivers quickly in certain geographies - specifically the drivers don't feel like they are compensated enough for the ride.
- cameldrv 2y agoPart of the trick is that you can't rate a driver if you don't actually start the ride, and the driver controls when the ride starts. Sometimes the driver will just get a fare from another service and wait for you to cancel the ride, and then they get a cancellation fee unless you complain to Uber, which they make difficult to do. The trick I use in this situation is just to switch to Lyft and make the driver cancel so I don't have to deal with Uber customer service.
- paxys 2y agoThey can do it, but what's the guarantee that the next one won't behave the same way? Ultimately people have places to be, and if the quickest option involves paying slightly more money, so be it.
- hgomersall 2y agoBecause they get taken down an alley and get the shit kicked out of them. "A-- resorted to extreme violence in the face of resistance to corruption. Will not use again"
- Analemma_ 2y agoIt's not Kenya, it's everywhere. Ubers in the US are increasingly doing a lot of the same things (canceling your booking if they don't like where you're going, e.g.) and becoming indistinguishable from the pre-Uber status quo. From an economic perspective it's kind of fascinating that lying and cheating drivers appear to be the natural equilibrium state of the taxicab market; Uber temporarily disrupted this dynamic but could not actually eliminate it, and it is now reasserting itself after a period of turbulence.
- paxys 2y ago> and becoming indistinguishable from the pre-Uber status quo As long as you can (1) tap a button on your phone and have a taxi show up in front of you in minutes and (2) pay by credit card and not have the driver rip you off by taking a longer route, it will continue to be infinitely better than the pre-Uber status quo.
- lxgr 2y ago> not have the driver rip you off by taking a longer route I've had that happen with Uber more than once. The app now just seems to automatically "recalculate the fare" due to an "unexpectedly longer route or travel time", i.e. it's actively enabling this type of scam!
- mrgoldenbrown 2y agoExcept your (1) is already slipping away - many drivers are now canceling on you if they don't like your destination.
- Ekaros 2y agoI think it is natural end of drive to bottom or extractive markets. Uber drops prices until drivers are forced to take steps to earn income. Or market is twisted by something absolutely moronic like overpriced transferable licenses... Likely only real way to make market mostly workable is setting reasonable cap on rates and controlling amount of cheap to acquire licences, but disallow transfers.
- outcoldman 2y agoMy experience with Uber/Taxi in Sweden. Got out of ferry, need to go to the airport, 40 minutes drive. There are a lot of taxies at the ferry terminal, sure, I talked to them, asked how much is to Airport, they all replied "by meter". Well I know you can set any rate to your meter. And all of them drove that route a lot of times, nobody gave me an estimate. So I have ordered Uber. Uber driver asked me how much Uber is going to charge me, and offered that he would cancel the ride, and I will pay him directly. I declined, just because I want to support Uber. I understand, that maybe some rides are not as beneficial as others, but give me a reasonable estimate, and I will agree to it. But this behavior of taxi drivers that would rather do one drive in 2 hours instead of 2 rides, and they make approximately the same amount of money - that is what created Uber/Lyft. Passengers frustration with the taxis. And I had bad experiences with Uber/Lyft and with Taxi. Cars can be filthy. But what I need: easy way to order a car, know exactly how much I am going to pay (estimate is fine with adjustment to changing traffic/time), what I don't want - not knowing if they will decide to charge me between 50-300 EUR/USD. That is not an estimate.
- amarcheschi 2y agoIn italy taxis are one of the most important lobbiy, along with industrial groups and beach license owners. I'm not joking
- lxgr 2y ago> Well I know you can set any rate to your meter. Do you mean meter manipulation? I think that's pretty hard at least in the places I've taken taxis in. What's much more common for taxis (and much harder to prove) is taking a circuitous/slower route on purpose. >But what I need: easy way to order a car, know exactly how much I am going to pay Same for me, and Uber has been hit and miss on both lately. I've both had drivers cancel on me (or even ask me to cancel so they don't take the Whuffie hit) because they don't want to go to some place, and drivers taking detours for which Uber would later charge me (as "unexpected extra time").
- outcoldman 2y agoSomebody replied about the Italy. My experience was exactly that, in Italy. After I sat in the taxi I saw them manually entering the rate. Hotel told me one approximate price, but it ended up way higher. They saw a tourist, they used opportunity.
- JaggedJax 2y agoWhen I was in Kenya last year (around Nairobi & the coast), I was shocked with how cheap the Ubers were. I was wondering how they could even pay for gas with the rates being so low. This answers that question and it's not at all surprising to find Uber yet again corrupting the market and the drivers paying the price. At that time everything was going through the app like normal, but I did find that most drivers would call you to confirm the pickup or destination spots to be sure. I don't recall many if any cancellations.