6 ms·

They’re also incredibly non-diverse and complain about big tech being non-diverse.

gwervc 2y ago
Always the same story... A few years ago a big left French newspaper (Libération) always pushing for "diversity" published a photo of their staff, which was like 98- 100% white.
- throwawaylolx 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Larrikin 2y ago
    Which ones?
    - ekianjo 2y ago
      every employer that has quotas for non-white employees? that necessarily follows. not that its not limited to race. if an org wants more women they will actively select candidates based on gender first.
      - Zigurd 2y ago
        Comparing a specific employer against "every employer that has quotas" is not a useful comparison.
        parineum 2y ago
        Discrimination is a necessary means to achieve quoatas, no matter what the quota is. Introducing discrimination is often the explicitly stated purpose of quotas
        Zigurd 2y ago
        The reason it's not a useful comparison is that unnamed, nonspecific "employer who has quotas" is assuming that many employers have quotas. Who? How much? And did they eat my cat?
      - jimbokun 2y ago
        Which employers are those? In the US, they would be blatantly violating the law and targets for lawsuits.
      - School-Cotton 2y ago
        > every employer that has quotas for non-white employees? Does any employer in the US have this? I'm almost certain it'd be illegal.
    - VancouverMan 2y ago
      Just over a decade ago, there was a job ad for a host role with the state-funded Canadian Broadcasting Corporation that explicitly required applicants to be "Any race except Caucasian". https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cbc-no-caucasian https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cbc-no-caucasian While it was portrayed as a "mistake" during the subsequent backtracking, that incident certainly planted a seed of doubt in my mind.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  thats called projection
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
donohoe 2y ago
“Incredibly non-diverse”? No. They are in a better position than most https://www.nytco.com/2023-new-york-times-diversity-and-inclusion-report/ https://www.nytco.com/2023-new-york-times-diversity-and-incl... The my don’t complain about tech being non-diverse, they report that it is non-diverse - which is true.
- klooney 2y ago
  60% white is much whiter than a tech company
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    Why is the color important here?
    - mensetmanusman 2y ago
      Because dei and the nyt focus on that being important.
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        [flagged]
        giantg2 2y ago
        "Feels like this deviation is always used as a distraction to divide and conquer the workers and voters on race and skin color and have them fight against each other to prevent them collectively allying against those from the top actually oppressing them and eroding their rights and wages." It does seem that way, slightly. There seem to be some natural causes for misalignment that I would think are more influential. One main issue is that different people and groups of people have different experiences. If you've never been screwed over, you might not see the problems in the current system. If you have been screwed over and seen other screwed over, you might just think that's the way it goes. What are the alternatives proposed to the unfair impacts? I want to see the objective rating criteria that can reduce or prevent people from getting screwed over. I do think tech unions can help with this a little, but I haven't seen any successful approaches to things like ratings. Even the places that set standards seem to have subjective criteria, or you work is subjectively applied. I've been screwed over and passed over multiple times. I also have a disability, no less it's one that causes inconsistencies with policies and treatment to jump out to me. I still haven't seen any solutions that will work until the members agree on what are the problems and how do we fix them. Many of my coworkers think my company is great, but those also tend to be the people that consistently get high ratings and promotions. Meanwhile, I struggle to point out all the contributions I made, align them to the standard, and otherwise do my manager's job of rating me for them only to get an average rating. It also doesn't help that I have to tell them what the corporate policies say when they try to misuse them against me (holding time off against me, holding prior period performance against me for this period, not providing accommodations that were promised, etc). Nobody else seems to have this hard of a time so why would they risk anything to speak up for people like me? I've learned to live with the disappointment by giving up any dreams of advancement and just trying to keep the job I have while fending off as much BS as I can... and perhaps complaining about it on HN.
whimsicalism 2y ago
in terms of binary black-white thinking, NYT is definitely more diverse than tech
grumple 2y ago
Is big tech non-diverse? It seems to have a higher non-white population than the US itself according the numbers I've been able to find. If we count contractors and off-shore, it will become even less white. I'd bet tech has a higher proportion of LGBT+ people as well (without looking at numbers, admittedly, but I'd be surprised if I was wrong). Gender diversity is an issue; but not for lack of trying. Cis women are probably 5% of the resumes I see.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  In my SV teams over the years, I'd say that the straight white male US born people were ~20% of the engineers.

Always the same story... A few years ago a big left French newspaper (Libération) always pushing for "diversity" published a photo of their staff, which was like 98- 100% white.

throwawaylolx 2y ago
[flagged]
- Larrikin 2y ago
  Which ones?
  - ekianjo 2y ago
    every employer that has quotas for non-white employees? that necessarily follows. not that its not limited to race. if an org wants more women they will actively select candidates based on gender first.
    - Zigurd 2y ago
      Comparing a specific employer against "every employer that has quotas" is not a useful comparison.
      - parineum 2y ago
        Discrimination is a necessary means to achieve quoatas, no matter what the quota is. Introducing discrimination is often the explicitly stated purpose of quotas
        Zigurd 2y ago
        The reason it's not a useful comparison is that unnamed, nonspecific "employer who has quotas" is assuming that many employers have quotas. Who? How much? And did they eat my cat?
    - jimbokun 2y ago
      Which employers are those? In the US, they would be blatantly violating the law and targets for lawsuits.
    - School-Cotton 2y ago
      > every employer that has quotas for non-white employees? Does any employer in the US have this? I'm almost certain it'd be illegal.
  - VancouverMan 2y ago
    Just over a decade ago, there was a job ad for a host role with the state-funded Canadian Broadcasting Corporation that explicitly required applicants to be "Any race except Caucasian". https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cbc-no-caucasian https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cbc-no-caucasian While it was portrayed as a "mistake" during the subsequent backtracking, that incident certainly planted a seed of doubt in my mind.
ekianjo 2y ago
thats called projection
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

donohoe 2y ago

“Incredibly non-diverse”? No. They are in a better position than most https://www.nytco.com/2023-new-york-times-diversity-and-inclusion-report/ https://www.nytco.com/2023-new-york-times-diversity-and-incl... The my don’t complain about tech being non-diverse, they report that it is non-diverse - which is true.

klooney 2y ago
60% white is much whiter than a tech company
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  Why is the color important here?
  - mensetmanusman 2y ago
    Because dei and the nyt focus on that being important.
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - giantg2 2y ago
        "Feels like this deviation is always used as a distraction to divide and conquer the workers and voters on race and skin color and have them fight against each other to prevent them collectively allying against those from the top actually oppressing them and eroding their rights and wages." It does seem that way, slightly. There seem to be some natural causes for misalignment that I would think are more influential. One main issue is that different people and groups of people have different experiences. If you've never been screwed over, you might not see the problems in the current system. If you have been screwed over and seen other screwed over, you might just think that's the way it goes. What are the alternatives proposed to the unfair impacts? I want to see the objective rating criteria that can reduce or prevent people from getting screwed over. I do think tech unions can help with this a little, but I haven't seen any successful approaches to things like ratings. Even the places that set standards seem to have subjective criteria, or you work is subjectively applied. I've been screwed over and passed over multiple times. I also have a disability, no less it's one that causes inconsistencies with policies and treatment to jump out to me. I still haven't seen any solutions that will work until the members agree on what are the problems and how do we fix them. Many of my coworkers think my company is great, but those also tend to be the people that consistently get high ratings and promotions. Meanwhile, I struggle to point out all the contributions I made, align them to the standard, and otherwise do my manager's job of rating me for them only to get an average rating. It also doesn't help that I have to tell them what the corporate policies say when they try to misuse them against me (holding time off against me, holding prior period performance against me for this period, not providing accommodations that were promised, etc). Nobody else seems to have this hard of a time so why would they risk anything to speak up for people like me? I've learned to live with the disappointment by giving up any dreams of advancement and just trying to keep the job I have while fending off as much BS as I can... and perhaps complaining about it on HN.

whimsicalism 2y ago

in terms of binary black-white thinking, NYT is definitely more diverse than tech

grumple 2y ago

Is big tech non-diverse? It seems to have a higher non-white population than the US itself according the numbers I've been able to find. If we count contractors and off-shore, it will become even less white. I'd bet tech has a higher proportion of LGBT+ people as well (without looking at numbers, admittedly, but I'd be surprised if I was wrong). Gender diversity is an issue; but not for lack of trying. Cis women are probably 5% of the resumes I see.

BurningFrog 2y ago
In my SV teams over the years, I'd say that the straight white male US born people were ~20% of the engineers.