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every single Apple feature or change creates this kind of weird negative-metric-reinforcement no matter the product whenever the number slides backwards or keep

by serf 2y ago

every single Apple feature or change creates this kind of weird negative-metric-reinforcement no matter the product whenever the number slides backwards or keeps parity Battery doesn't last long? Well, let's forget that the entire market has trended towards catering to a customer desire for long-life batteries -- it's a feature to help coordinate 'charging habits'!... whatever that is. Less keyboard space and battery life? No worries because that touch-bar is going to increase productivity so many more times than without it! "No user replaceable battery? Of course not -- those are dangerous!" which eventually devolves into : "Well, my reception is terrible, but I was holding it wrong " It's not really a grievance of mine, it's more like an utter amazement that somehow Apple and Tesla are the only companies that seem to be able to foster that kind of behavior in their fans. The price points of both groups make me think it's sort of an advanced 'buyer's remorse' , but I don't know.

matrix2003 2y ago
I largely agree with the parent comment. As of the series 7, charging became a non-issue since it’s so fast. It was painful before that. And don’t _dare_ compare the charging situation to the touch bar. Let’s just all agree that was an abomination.
kalium-xyz 2y ago
Worst / funniest case of this (if you have a grim sense of humor) is when early unibody macbook pros would get 70C or so to the touch and physically burn the users to the point of minor scarring. People who’d complain about this would be berated by apple defenders stating that “its not a laptop and apple never called it a laptop. yet at the time a simple search for “laptop site:apple.com” sure seemed to indicate that they are referred to as laptops by apple.
- indoordin0saur 2y ago
  I save a lot of energy in the winter because I can turn down our home heater and the hot laptop keeps my fingers warmed up and typing fast!
sneak 2y ago
The entire market has trended towards catering to a customer desire for lighter and thinner devices.
- yowzadave 2y ago
  Exactly--GP's preference for a watch with a longer battery life and user-replaceable battery is at direct odds with the desire for a thinner watch. Presumably Apple has just done the math and decided the market is better for the latter? It's always been a bit chunky for a watch--maybe now it can finally approach "normal" watch size.
dmix 2y ago
This is a bit hyperbolic. They take occasional risks like the touchbar and then they addressed it after bad feedback. I personally like their aggressive sense of design mission and not always playing it safe merely because it will cause flame wars on technology forums. Yet generally they keep the UX extremely clean and consistent through major versions. Their mission with watch clearly isn't a multiday battery thing, it's a compromise for high quality displays and performance. The market exists for alternatives. The lack of good ones would be on them not just Apple. In my decade plus experience those bad examples like touchbar are few and far in between.
sureIy 2y ago
Every tool has a correct way to be used. You can’t tell me I shouldn’t slide my electric toothbrush from side to side “because of market forces”. Battery technology just isn’t there. Bigger battery means heavier device. Duracell made a smartphone with a huge-ass multiday battery… that the market did not ask for. It has to be a compromise unfortunately. As for the Touch Bar I don’t really understand the hate for it. The execution was subpar but I miss its ability to autofill forms just like on the iPhone and generally using the autocomplete UI the same way. There’s no replacement now. As for the batteries, I hope they’re eventually forced to fold on that issue, but it will come at the expense of design, size and weight. Again a compromise. The reception one you’re right.
- 10u152 2y ago
  No I still don’t understand the Apple Watch battery issue. I have a xaiomi mi band 9. The body to screen ratio is roughly the same as the Apple Watch. It does HR tracking, workouts, has excellent 1000 night brightness, weather, notifications etc. I get about 15 days from a charge. They say I can get 21. But either way. I understand the Apple Watch is running better hardware and more things in the background, but there’s also significantly more space in the watch for battery. It might be doing more but a factor of 15x is a crazy differential.
  - your_drunk_dad 2y ago
    Comparing Apple Watch to Mi Band makes no sense. Apple Watch is more of a microcomputer than a cheap smart band. It would be better to compare it to something like Garmin Fenix 7X that lasts you almost 40 days with 120 hours in GPS mode and does much more than a Mi Band.
    - 10u152 2y ago
      Calling it a "microcomputer" is meaningless. What is it doing? Monitoring some sensors, communicating with a phone via bluetooth, running a screen.
      - 2y ago
umbra07 2y ago
throw in the mac magic keyboard (no backlight - not even on the 2021 revision) and the magic mouse 1.
bananapub 2y ago
> let's forget that the entire market has trended towards catering to a customer desire for long-life batteries apple sells 34% of smartwatches: https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/22/apple-watch-dominated-smartwatch-market-sales-and-profits-in-2022 https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/22/apple-watch-domin... and most of the rest are deeply crap Android things that don't have week-long battery life.
4fterd4rk 2y ago
I think it's more interesting that Apple creates this reaction where people will endlessly harp on about things that happened over a decade ago under different leadership (holding it wrong) any time they update their products.
- thebruce87m 2y ago
  It’s even worse than that. Those words were never uttered. People have interpreted their own sentiment from what was actually said and now that phrase is repeated as it if it was.

by serf 2y ago

matrix2003 2y ago

I largely agree with the parent comment. As of the series 7, charging became a non-issue since it’s so fast. It was painful before that. And don’t _dare_ compare the charging situation to the touch bar. Let’s just all agree that was an abomination.

kalium-xyz 2y ago

Worst / funniest case of this (if you have a grim sense of humor) is when early unibody macbook pros would get 70C or so to the touch and physically burn the users to the point of minor scarring. People who’d complain about this would be berated by apple defenders stating that “its not a laptop and apple never called it a laptop. yet at the time a simple search for “laptop site:apple.com” sure seemed to indicate that they are referred to as laptops by apple.

indoordin0saur 2y ago
I save a lot of energy in the winter because I can turn down our home heater and the hot laptop keeps my fingers warmed up and typing fast!

sneak 2y ago

The entire market has trended towards catering to a customer desire for lighter and thinner devices.

yowzadave 2y ago
Exactly--GP's preference for a watch with a longer battery life and user-replaceable battery is at direct odds with the desire for a thinner watch. Presumably Apple has just done the math and decided the market is better for the latter? It's always been a bit chunky for a watch--maybe now it can finally approach "normal" watch size.

dmix 2y ago

This is a bit hyperbolic. They take occasional risks like the touchbar and then they addressed it after bad feedback. I personally like their aggressive sense of design mission and not always playing it safe merely because it will cause flame wars on technology forums. Yet generally they keep the UX extremely clean and consistent through major versions. Their mission with watch clearly isn't a multiday battery thing, it's a compromise for high quality displays and performance. The market exists for alternatives. The lack of good ones would be on them not just Apple. In my decade plus experience those bad examples like touchbar are few and far in between.

sureIy 2y ago

Every tool has a correct way to be used. You can’t tell me I shouldn’t slide my electric toothbrush from side to side “because of market forces”. Battery technology just isn’t there. Bigger battery means heavier device. Duracell made a smartphone with a huge-ass multiday battery… that the market did not ask for. It has to be a compromise unfortunately. As for the Touch Bar I don’t really understand the hate for it. The execution was subpar but I miss its ability to autofill forms just like on the iPhone and generally using the autocomplete UI the same way. There’s no replacement now. As for the batteries, I hope they’re eventually forced to fold on that issue, but it will come at the expense of design, size and weight. Again a compromise. The reception one you’re right.

10u152 2y ago
No I still don’t understand the Apple Watch battery issue. I have a xaiomi mi band 9. The body to screen ratio is roughly the same as the Apple Watch. It does HR tracking, workouts, has excellent 1000 night brightness, weather, notifications etc. I get about 15 days from a charge. They say I can get 21. But either way. I understand the Apple Watch is running better hardware and more things in the background, but there’s also significantly more space in the watch for battery. It might be doing more but a factor of 15x is a crazy differential.
- your_drunk_dad 2y ago
  Comparing Apple Watch to Mi Band makes no sense. Apple Watch is more of a microcomputer than a cheap smart band. It would be better to compare it to something like Garmin Fenix 7X that lasts you almost 40 days with 120 hours in GPS mode and does much more than a Mi Band.
  - 10u152 2y ago
    Calling it a "microcomputer" is meaningless. What is it doing? Monitoring some sensors, communicating with a phone via bluetooth, running a screen.
    - 2y ago

umbra07 2y ago

throw in the mac magic keyboard (no backlight - not even on the 2021 revision) and the magic mouse 1.

bananapub 2y ago

> let's forget that the entire market has trended towards catering to a customer desire for long-life batteries apple sells 34% of smartwatches: https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/22/apple-watch-dominated-smartwatch-market-sales-and-profits-in-2022 https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/02/22/apple-watch-domin... and most of the rest are deeply crap Android things that don't have week-long battery life.

4fterd4rk 2y ago

I think it's more interesting that Apple creates this reaction where people will endlessly harp on about things that happened over a decade ago under different leadership (holding it wrong) any time they update their products.

thebruce87m 2y ago
It’s even worse than that. Those words were never uttered. People have interpreted their own sentiment from what was actually said and now that phrase is repeated as it if it was.