7 ms·

Wind Becomes Britain's Largest Electricity Source

59 points by tonyedgecombe 2y ago

Rygian 2y ago
The article does not provide any details about wind energy that was left "unharvested" (ie enough wind, but turbines intentionally braking) whenever it would not be feasible to store it for later consumption. I do not know if that is a large issue in the context of Britain, considering the 5.6 GW of hydro storage capacity it has. https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/GB?lang=en https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/GB?lang=en
- ragebol 2y ago
  > 5.6 GW of hydro storage capacity The unit police issues you a warning! Storage is measured in watt-hours (or Joules), so 5.6 GWh in this case?
  - benj111 2y ago
    But watts are defined as Joules/second so it should be (Giga)Joules/second/hour
    - otisv 2y ago
      A (Giga) Watt-hour is Watts multiplied by hours, not divided! Joules are the SI unit of energy, so you must multiply the wattage by an amount of time to get back an energy.
  - Rygian 2y ago
    The unit police is technically correct (best kind of correct), but has no jurisdiction here. The synonym police is on duty here: the word "capacity" was a poor choice leading to ambiguity. A better choice would have been "ability to absorb up to 5.6 GW with the hydro storage infrastructure."
- pxdm 2y ago
  The vast majority of wind that is unharvested is curtailed due to constraints on the transmission network between Scotland (lots of wind) and England (lots of demand). There is a significant amount of pumped hydro (and battery storage) in Scotland to help in these instances but there are still enormous costs associated with curtailment (approx. £1 billion per year).
  - sambeau 2y ago
    Pumped Hydro and battery storage are a drop in the ocean of the amount of storage needed to secure the grid, especially as people shift to electric cars.
    - Someone 2y ago
      Why “especially”? Demand for electricity will go up a lot, but people buy electric cars with much larger batteries than they need most of the time. So, many people would be able to postpone charging their cars. Steep variable pricing easily would make them do that.
      - sambeau 2y ago
        Especially, because most energy used is currently not electricity:it fossil fuels. We need 4x for a zero-carbon grid and to be secure we need over a week's stored electricity: 10s of TWh. The plan for the UK grid has 50 Two in it. Will people really postpone charging their car for a week if they hit a cold still week in January?
    - rjwilmsi 2y ago
      I take the opposite view - as more people have electric cars there are more batteries available. With some sort of dynamic pricing, and bearing in mind most commuter mileage needs only 1 full charge a week, you could encourage consumers to charge up when it's windy and/or hold off charging when it's not, so better matching demand to supply and reducing curtailment.
      - 2y ago
grw_ 2y ago
That's great- but UK has almost highest energy cost in Europe- almost €0.48/kWh. By comparison France (which has consistently invested in nuclear for the past half-century) has almost half that. Until UK has enough energy that it can be priced as in other European nations it will suffer with low competitiveness of energy-intensive industries.
- energy123 2y ago
  Okay, but why is it expensive? The insinuation of your comment is that wind energy is to blame for high costs, and nuclear is the reason for low costs. But in the US, some of the cheapest energy is in states with wind higher than the UK at 60%, such as Iowa. Perhaps the blame is because the previous Tory government banned onshore wind, the cheapest form of wind energy, a ban only lifted recently under Starmer? I don't know the reason, but it deserves a more serious analysis.
  - secondcoming 2y ago
    In the UK energy prices are linked to natural gas prices.
    - cjrp 2y ago
      Yep, it's linked to the most expensive form of generation at that time (which is often gas); known as marginal cost pricing. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/why-is-cheap-renewable-electricity-so-expensive/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/why-is-cheap-renewable-...
  - 4thgenrustcoder 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - grw_ 2y ago
    My comment wasn't implying that importance of wind in the UK energy mix (or lack of investment in nuclear) is specifically the reason for high costs but I agree that government policy is indeed to blame. As to whether the cause is Tory ban of onshore wind- I'm skeptical. I don't think wind is any cheaper than gas once you include the necessary energy storage capacity- especially when there is huge amounts of gas sitting under the north sea which the new Labour government is planning to ban pumping: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gauravsharma/2024/07/12/sudden-cancellation-of-uk-north-sea-oil-drilling-bids-may-cost-millions/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/gauravsharma/2024/07/12/sudden-...
michael9423 2y ago
[flagged]
- stdbrouw 2y ago
  This information is completely meaningless unless compared to other sources of energy production and other sources of pollution.
- Kelteseth 2y ago
  Hasn't this been largely debunked? It's the same material we use for airplanes.
- raverbashing 2y ago
  It's funny how coal/oil propaganda is so strong people buy the craziest BS about renewables Meanwhile China is investing full on solar while boomers waste their time with anti-renewable propaganda that makes no sense to anyone with a sense of orders of magnitude and functioning mental math > A single turbine contaminates the environment with more than 100 kg of toxic micro particles Wow, over 100kg? And how much does Coal? How much does Oil? We need more solar, more wind, more nuclear and less 19-century technology crap
  - vixen99 2y ago
    And we need to keep cool heads so we can assess the full true costs of all energy technologies without being wedded to an agenda (such that it disregards inconvenient facts) either way. Taking account of the numerous coal mines opening in China to provide the electricity for solar panel or turbine construction doesn't imply an anti-green mindset. Out of sight, out of mind! Worth mentioning that without that 19th century crap, none of the advances we enjoy today would have been possible. But we do indeed move on as the evidence directs - one trusts.
    - raverbashing 2y ago
      Yes, we should understand the impact of newer forms of energy production, that's how evolution goes forward. Naturally older energy production methods stay online while newer ones ramp up. But a lot of criticism of newer technologies come from people acting like Coal plants emit butterflies and oil didn't cause any problems. It's good to remind that both oil and coal also had a lot of problems during its technological ramp up (also because steam engines were evolving as well) but we forget about those with time.
deleted 2y ago
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dwighttk 2y ago
It is worth noting that this was across year as the article mentions an hour in 2013 and a month in a later year (forgot which one) that wind was the leader…
deleted 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
luke-stanley 2y ago
Well, blow me down. I better boil a cupa.

59 points by tonyedgecombe 2y ago

The article does not provide any details about wind energy that was left "unharvested" (ie enough wind, but turbines intentionally braking) whenever it would not be feasible to store it for later consumption. I do not know if that is a large issue in the context of Britain, considering the 5.6 GW of hydro storage capacity it has. https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/GB?lang=en https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/GB?lang=en

ragebol 2y ago
> 5.6 GW of hydro storage capacity The unit police issues you a warning! Storage is measured in watt-hours (or Joules), so 5.6 GWh in this case?
- benj111 2y ago
  But watts are defined as Joules/second so it should be (Giga)Joules/second/hour
  - otisv 2y ago
    A (Giga) Watt-hour is Watts multiplied by hours, not divided! Joules are the SI unit of energy, so you must multiply the wattage by an amount of time to get back an energy.
- Rygian 2y ago
  The unit police is technically correct (best kind of correct), but has no jurisdiction here. The synonym police is on duty here: the word "capacity" was a poor choice leading to ambiguity. A better choice would have been "ability to absorb up to 5.6 GW with the hydro storage infrastructure."
pxdm 2y ago
The vast majority of wind that is unharvested is curtailed due to constraints on the transmission network between Scotland (lots of wind) and England (lots of demand). There is a significant amount of pumped hydro (and battery storage) in Scotland to help in these instances but there are still enormous costs associated with curtailment (approx. £1 billion per year).
- sambeau 2y ago
  Pumped Hydro and battery storage are a drop in the ocean of the amount of storage needed to secure the grid, especially as people shift to electric cars.
  - Someone 2y ago
    Why “especially”? Demand for electricity will go up a lot, but people buy electric cars with much larger batteries than they need most of the time. So, many people would be able to postpone charging their cars. Steep variable pricing easily would make them do that.
    - sambeau 2y ago
      Especially, because most energy used is currently not electricity:it fossil fuels. We need 4x for a zero-carbon grid and to be secure we need over a week's stored electricity: 10s of TWh. The plan for the UK grid has 50 Two in it. Will people really postpone charging their car for a week if they hit a cold still week in January?
  - rjwilmsi 2y ago
    I take the opposite view - as more people have electric cars there are more batteries available. With some sort of dynamic pricing, and bearing in mind most commuter mileage needs only 1 full charge a week, you could encourage consumers to charge up when it's windy and/or hold off charging when it's not, so better matching demand to supply and reducing curtailment.
    - 2y ago

grw_ 2y ago

That's great- but UK has almost highest energy cost in Europe- almost €0.48/kWh. By comparison France (which has consistently invested in nuclear for the past half-century) has almost half that. Until UK has enough energy that it can be priced as in other European nations it will suffer with low competitiveness of energy-intensive industries.

energy123 2y ago
Okay, but why is it expensive? The insinuation of your comment is that wind energy is to blame for high costs, and nuclear is the reason for low costs. But in the US, some of the cheapest energy is in states with wind higher than the UK at 60%, such as Iowa. Perhaps the blame is because the previous Tory government banned onshore wind, the cheapest form of wind energy, a ban only lifted recently under Starmer? I don't know the reason, but it deserves a more serious analysis.
- secondcoming 2y ago
  In the UK energy prices are linked to natural gas prices.
  - cjrp 2y ago
    Yep, it's linked to the most expensive form of generation at that time (which is often gas); known as marginal cost pricing. https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/why-is-cheap-renewable-electricity-so-expensive/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/why-is-cheap-renewable-...
- 4thgenrustcoder 2y ago
  [flagged]
- grw_ 2y ago
  My comment wasn't implying that importance of wind in the UK energy mix (or lack of investment in nuclear) is specifically the reason for high costs but I agree that government policy is indeed to blame. As to whether the cause is Tory ban of onshore wind- I'm skeptical. I don't think wind is any cheaper than gas once you include the necessary energy storage capacity- especially when there is huge amounts of gas sitting under the north sea which the new Labour government is planning to ban pumping: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gauravsharma/2024/07/12/sudden-cancellation-of-uk-north-sea-oil-drilling-bids-may-cost-millions/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/gauravsharma/2024/07/12/sudden-...

michael9423 2y ago

[flagged]

stdbrouw 2y ago
This information is completely meaningless unless compared to other sources of energy production and other sources of pollution.
Kelteseth 2y ago
Hasn't this been largely debunked? It's the same material we use for airplanes.
raverbashing 2y ago
It's funny how coal/oil propaganda is so strong people buy the craziest BS about renewables Meanwhile China is investing full on solar while boomers waste their time with anti-renewable propaganda that makes no sense to anyone with a sense of orders of magnitude and functioning mental math > A single turbine contaminates the environment with more than 100 kg of toxic micro particles Wow, over 100kg? And how much does Coal? How much does Oil? We need more solar, more wind, more nuclear and less 19-century technology crap
- vixen99 2y ago
  And we need to keep cool heads so we can assess the full true costs of all energy technologies without being wedded to an agenda (such that it disregards inconvenient facts) either way. Taking account of the numerous coal mines opening in China to provide the electricity for solar panel or turbine construction doesn't imply an anti-green mindset. Out of sight, out of mind! Worth mentioning that without that 19th century crap, none of the advances we enjoy today would have been possible. But we do indeed move on as the evidence directs - one trusts.
  - raverbashing 2y ago
    Yes, we should understand the impact of newer forms of energy production, that's how evolution goes forward. Naturally older energy production methods stay online while newer ones ramp up. But a lot of criticism of newer technologies come from people acting like Coal plants emit butterflies and oil didn't cause any problems. It's good to remind that both oil and coal also had a lot of problems during its technological ramp up (also because steam engines were evolving as well) but we forget about those with time.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dwighttk 2y ago

It is worth noting that this was across year as the article mentions an hour in 2013 and a month in a later year (forgot which one) that wind was the leader…

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

luke-stanley 2y ago

Well, blow me down. I better boil a cupa.