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This doesn't make sense to me, evolutionarily. Why do I hate going to the gym / lifting weight & cardio so much? Why do I feel no obvious benefits from a month

This doesn't make sense to me, evolutionarily. Why do I hate going to the gym / lifting weight & cardio so much? Why do I feel no obvious benefits from a month of 4-days a week of weight training (apart from some extra strength & minor visible changes)? If exercise is so potent and so beneficial, then shouldn't I crave it the way I crave sugar? Or at least not actively dislike it?

jwiz 2y ago
My counterpoint is that I do crave it. Training again after being sick is such a feeling of relief, on par with when I smoked and would have a cigarette after many hours without one.
- unsupp0rted 2y ago
  This is extremely lucky for you, but the majority of the population is the opposite: which is why gyms oversell annual memberships, knowing that the overwhelming majority of purchasers will quit after 1~3 months (because working out is hard and not pleasant).
exe34 2y ago
the things you crave are those that got your ancestors to live long enough to produce offspring that can reproduce.
jasonsb 2y ago
I'm sorry to hear that, but that's how medicine works. It looks like a miracle when it works and like a waste of time when it doesn't.
copperx 2y ago
Constant locomotion was required to stay alive until very recently. Everything required movement. Had you been rewarded by the body to keep moving, you would have to ingest many more calories than were available.
pipodeclown 2y ago
I really don't see how this is not obvious. Evolutionarily speaking our survival strategy involved high amounts of exercise (running after antilopes and gathering plants/fruits) so our bodies are optimised for high amounts of exercise. At the same time we needed to survive in unpredictable and sometimes low calories invironnements, our behavioural instincts are therefore to gather and consume as much calories as we can while expending as little calories as possible in the process (binge eating while loafing around if possible). Such optimisations and instincts can lead to unwanted outcomes in new environments such as those of modern sedentary lifestyles. I really don't see how you subjectively not feeling a benefit to an active lifestyle conflicts with the above.
- unsupp0rted 2y ago
  It's not just me subjectively: our bodies are optimized for high amounts of exercise and yet when we give it to them they hate it and keep signaling for us to stop it. "No pain, no gain" Why would there be pain for doing what we're designed to do?
  - atoav 2y ago
    Because most people weren't doing hunting or labor because they liked it[1]. They just liked dying even less. People of generations before modern times led often extremely short and miserable lifes. Not moving meant dying. Moving more than was necessary also meant dying. We werent designed to do sports, it is just that those who didn't move were a little more likely to die. And people who are more likely to die are less likely to pass their genes on, simply because they had less time to reproduce. The result: We have bodies which are meant to be moved, but only if needed, like many other animals. Moving too much was bad too, as resources are needed to do it an resources were not readily available at all times [cue picture of rough European winter ca 1300 AD]. You probably guessed already that starvation, because you burned too many calories has luckily become a non-issue in most parts of the world. So we are a direct result of the environments and circumstances our ancestors lived in, managed to get kids in, and who in turn managed to survive long enough to raise their kids. [1] Many people actually like moving or grow to like it. A bit like with spicy food, which hurts at first, but pours out endorphines, being fit and using your body can give you all kinds of good emotions during and after the activity and you can grow to like it once the pain is over. Being able to rely on your body and know it and its limitations can be very fulfilling. When I run my Sunday 16km I don't feel any pain. But I am fit. I might feel pain when I attempt a marathon and try to set a personal record. But regular running is a breeze once you are in shape.
badlucklottery 2y ago
> then shouldn't I crave it the way I crave sugar? Or at least not actively dislike it? As someone who's been lifting weights and doing regular cardio 4 or 5 days a week for 25+ years: No, you might just hate it forever. I do. I've never liked doing it and have always had to guilt myself into it because I find it so unpleasant. But whenever I'm unable to do it (injury, surgery/accident recovery, etc.) I feel substantially worse both physically and psychologically (I know not doing it is reducing the number of "good" years I get to have in life). So I just tough it out and get to work.
dubin 2y ago
worth bearing in mind that the thing we call exercise now used to be more like: building shelters, finding food with our tribe, constant movement/walking... a lot of stuff that was highly socially situated and meaningful. also playful often, I bet. very different than from today
fragmede 2y ago
Runner's high is a well documented phenomenon, so evolutionary, it does happen.
atoav 2y ago
Simple: evolutionary humanity had to move and endure if it wanted to survive. But you did it because you had to, not because wasting energy was something you liked. But guess what people liked even less? Dying, suffering or seeing their loved ones die and suffer. So hard work had to be done so the future was survivable. Fat or sweet food now was always superior to no food later. This has probably been the case for the majority of the human population throughout history. Now we have a modern society with division of labor, good wealth (in comparison to previous generations) and safety. If you got a desk job and a car you literally stopped moving. This was not possible ever before in human society, except for the lucky few. I totally recommend doing sports. The brain functions better if your body does what it was made for.
m463 2y ago
From what I've read our body responds well to exercise. We exercise to hunt and forage, and our body responds by strengthening our bones and putting on muscle mass to support this. In summer we lose fat and in winter put on a little fat. more testosterone in the fall, maybe to mate and have a birth the following summer. If we stop exercising, are body figures out we have no available food and makes us listless so we conserve energy until food appears. We are in peril, so we put on fat and metabolize muscle to survive. Except in modern life our body thinks no excercise so more fat, less muscle, and less energy. So it is exercise that drives our body, not our body prompting exercise (excepting maybe fight or flight in brief bursts)
CuriousSkeptic 2y ago
I have an hypothesis that exercise is beneficial up to exactly the point where you start getting “fitter” That is, there is an optimal point at which your metabolism is exactly exhausted daily, without needing to increase, but neither needing to find alternate process to pour energy into The theory being that if you do not exercise your body spends the excess energy on causing trouble for the body However by increasing metabolism you raise the floor for what is the necessary exercise you need, while at the same time increase “wear and tear” simply burning more energy To be clear, there is absolutely no science behind this, just idle curiosity
pandaman 2y ago
Do you just crave sugar in any form? Would you eat just crystals from a packet? Many people would not. Pretty much everyone has dietary preferences and would not eat some food because the taste is unpalatable. Same with exercise, some will pay thousands of bucks for a weekend on a ski resort yet would rather pay $100 than run 5K. Tastes differ, gym exercise is pretty much "Soylent" of physical activity: artificial, unfun, and dull going through the motions. You might not like Soylent too, does not mean food is not good for you or you have not evolved to eat.
signaru 2y ago
I think there are evolutionary arguments for it, besides avoiding sickness: * Generally, the opposite sex is physically attracted to fit individuals. * Finding food prior to agriculture or paying others. * As for sugar, I'm not so sure, but maybe the plant's benefits also have to be considered (e.g. propagating seeds through fruits).
kamaal 2y ago
>>Why do I hate going to the gym / lifting weight & cardio so much? Seems pretty much the same case with thinking too. Thinking hard doesn't come naturally to people either. Though doing it often can not only save your life(speaking evolutionarily), it can also improve your quality of life. Its the same thing with fasting. There are big benefits to fasting long intervals of time, but we like to eat despite it giving us diseases. Perhaps one needs to do some of it for a while to start liking it. Then it kind of becomes likeable. I do see people enjoying playing sports, or playing chess. >> Why do I feel no obvious benefits from a month of 4-days a week of weight training (apart from some extra strength & minor visible changes)? Combined with some diet thing, that builds good momentum. >>If exercise is so potent and so beneficial, then shouldn't I crave it the way I crave sugar? Or at least not actively dislike it? Children hate to eat, and like to play a lot. Does feel like it comes with our nature. We just run the opposite direction.
Shadowed_ 2y ago
From evolutionary point, you adapt for what gets you survive and reproduce. Survival has two main components: physical survival (not being killed/maimed too much) and energy (not starving to death). On energy part, you have positive (food) and negative (base metabolism that keeps you alive and physical activity). You can't do much about base metabolism but you can develop love for food (primarily sugar and fat as main source of energy) and hate to physical activity. However, here comes physical survival. For it you have to have activity to avoid predators, to find/catch food and to build shelter. So, in conclusion, from evolutionary standpoint, you hate activity so you don't do it needlessly but your body is adapted to be good at it for when you really have to.

jwiz 2y ago

My counterpoint is that I do crave it. Training again after being sick is such a feeling of relief, on par with when I smoked and would have a cigarette after many hours without one.

unsupp0rted 2y ago
This is extremely lucky for you, but the majority of the population is the opposite: which is why gyms oversell annual memberships, knowing that the overwhelming majority of purchasers will quit after 1~3 months (because working out is hard and not pleasant).

exe34 2y ago

the things you crave are those that got your ancestors to live long enough to produce offspring that can reproduce.

jasonsb 2y ago

I'm sorry to hear that, but that's how medicine works. It looks like a miracle when it works and like a waste of time when it doesn't.

copperx 2y ago

Constant locomotion was required to stay alive until very recently. Everything required movement. Had you been rewarded by the body to keep moving, you would have to ingest many more calories than were available.

pipodeclown 2y ago

I really don't see how this is not obvious. Evolutionarily speaking our survival strategy involved high amounts of exercise (running after antilopes and gathering plants/fruits) so our bodies are optimised for high amounts of exercise. At the same time we needed to survive in unpredictable and sometimes low calories invironnements, our behavioural instincts are therefore to gather and consume as much calories as we can while expending as little calories as possible in the process (binge eating while loafing around if possible). Such optimisations and instincts can lead to unwanted outcomes in new environments such as those of modern sedentary lifestyles. I really don't see how you subjectively not feeling a benefit to an active lifestyle conflicts with the above.

unsupp0rted 2y ago
It's not just me subjectively: our bodies are optimized for high amounts of exercise and yet when we give it to them they hate it and keep signaling for us to stop it. "No pain, no gain" Why would there be pain for doing what we're designed to do?
- atoav 2y ago
  Because most people weren't doing hunting or labor because they liked it[1]. They just liked dying even less. People of generations before modern times led often extremely short and miserable lifes. Not moving meant dying. Moving more than was necessary also meant dying. We werent designed to do sports, it is just that those who didn't move were a little more likely to die. And people who are more likely to die are less likely to pass their genes on, simply because they had less time to reproduce. The result: We have bodies which are meant to be moved, but only if needed, like many other animals. Moving too much was bad too, as resources are needed to do it an resources were not readily available at all times [cue picture of rough European winter ca 1300 AD]. You probably guessed already that starvation, because you burned too many calories has luckily become a non-issue in most parts of the world. So we are a direct result of the environments and circumstances our ancestors lived in, managed to get kids in, and who in turn managed to survive long enough to raise their kids. [1] Many people actually like moving or grow to like it. A bit like with spicy food, which hurts at first, but pours out endorphines, being fit and using your body can give you all kinds of good emotions during and after the activity and you can grow to like it once the pain is over. Being able to rely on your body and know it and its limitations can be very fulfilling. When I run my Sunday 16km I don't feel any pain. But I am fit. I might feel pain when I attempt a marathon and try to set a personal record. But regular running is a breeze once you are in shape.

badlucklottery 2y ago

> then shouldn't I crave it the way I crave sugar? Or at least not actively dislike it? As someone who's been lifting weights and doing regular cardio 4 or 5 days a week for 25+ years: No, you might just hate it forever. I do. I've never liked doing it and have always had to guilt myself into it because I find it so unpleasant. But whenever I'm unable to do it (injury, surgery/accident recovery, etc.) I feel substantially worse both physically and psychologically (I know not doing it is reducing the number of "good" years I get to have in life). So I just tough it out and get to work.

dubin 2y ago

worth bearing in mind that the thing we call exercise now used to be more like: building shelters, finding food with our tribe, constant movement/walking... a lot of stuff that was highly socially situated and meaningful. also playful often, I bet. very different than from today

fragmede 2y ago

Runner's high is a well documented phenomenon, so evolutionary, it does happen.

atoav 2y ago

Simple: evolutionary humanity had to move and endure if it wanted to survive. But you did it because you had to, not because wasting energy was something you liked. But guess what people liked even less? Dying, suffering or seeing their loved ones die and suffer. So hard work had to be done so the future was survivable. Fat or sweet food now was always superior to no food later. This has probably been the case for the majority of the human population throughout history. Now we have a modern society with division of labor, good wealth (in comparison to previous generations) and safety. If you got a desk job and a car you literally stopped moving. This was not possible ever before in human society, except for the lucky few. I totally recommend doing sports. The brain functions better if your body does what it was made for.

m463 2y ago

From what I've read our body responds well to exercise. We exercise to hunt and forage, and our body responds by strengthening our bones and putting on muscle mass to support this. In summer we lose fat and in winter put on a little fat. more testosterone in the fall, maybe to mate and have a birth the following summer. If we stop exercising, are body figures out we have no available food and makes us listless so we conserve energy until food appears. We are in peril, so we put on fat and metabolize muscle to survive. Except in modern life our body thinks no excercise so more fat, less muscle, and less energy. So it is exercise that drives our body, not our body prompting exercise (excepting maybe fight or flight in brief bursts)

CuriousSkeptic 2y ago

I have an hypothesis that exercise is beneficial up to exactly the point where you start getting “fitter” That is, there is an optimal point at which your metabolism is exactly exhausted daily, without needing to increase, but neither needing to find alternate process to pour energy into The theory being that if you do not exercise your body spends the excess energy on causing trouble for the body However by increasing metabolism you raise the floor for what is the necessary exercise you need, while at the same time increase “wear and tear” simply burning more energy To be clear, there is absolutely no science behind this, just idle curiosity

pandaman 2y ago

Do you just crave sugar in any form? Would you eat just crystals from a packet? Many people would not. Pretty much everyone has dietary preferences and would not eat some food because the taste is unpalatable. Same with exercise, some will pay thousands of bucks for a weekend on a ski resort yet would rather pay $100 than run 5K. Tastes differ, gym exercise is pretty much "Soylent" of physical activity: artificial, unfun, and dull going through the motions. You might not like Soylent too, does not mean food is not good for you or you have not evolved to eat.

signaru 2y ago

I think there are evolutionary arguments for it, besides avoiding sickness: * Generally, the opposite sex is physically attracted to fit individuals. * Finding food prior to agriculture or paying others. * As for sugar, I'm not so sure, but maybe the plant's benefits also have to be considered (e.g. propagating seeds through fruits).

kamaal 2y ago

>>Why do I hate going to the gym / lifting weight & cardio so much? Seems pretty much the same case with thinking too. Thinking hard doesn't come naturally to people either. Though doing it often can not only save your life(speaking evolutionarily), it can also improve your quality of life. Its the same thing with fasting. There are big benefits to fasting long intervals of time, but we like to eat despite it giving us diseases. Perhaps one needs to do some of it for a while to start liking it. Then it kind of becomes likeable. I do see people enjoying playing sports, or playing chess. >> Why do I feel no obvious benefits from a month of 4-days a week of weight training (apart from some extra strength & minor visible changes)? Combined with some diet thing, that builds good momentum. >>If exercise is so potent and so beneficial, then shouldn't I crave it the way I crave sugar? Or at least not actively dislike it? Children hate to eat, and like to play a lot. Does feel like it comes with our nature. We just run the opposite direction.

Shadowed_ 2y ago

From evolutionary point, you adapt for what gets you survive and reproduce. Survival has two main components: physical survival (not being killed/maimed too much) and energy (not starving to death). On energy part, you have positive (food) and negative (base metabolism that keeps you alive and physical activity). You can't do much about base metabolism but you can develop love for food (primarily sugar and fat as main source of energy) and hate to physical activity. However, here comes physical survival. For it you have to have activity to avoid predators, to find/catch food and to build shelter. So, in conclusion, from evolutionary standpoint, you hate activity so you don't do it needlessly but your body is adapted to be good at it for when you really have to.