11 ms·

After reading the article, and specially the remarks about this engine being copy-pasted from the Xbox DRM engine , does anyone still believe that Pluton, also

After reading the article, and specially the remarks about this engine being copy-pasted from the Xbox DRM engine , does anyone still believe that Pluton, also copy-pasted from the Xbox, is about end user security? And not totally about MS finally having enforceable DRM on PCs? Oh and by the way Pluton is now on the latest batch of Intel laptop chips. And has been on AMDs for a while. How soon until Windows requires it?

dgellow 2y ago
I may be naive, but I still do. Skepticism is warranted, yet outright dismissal based on conjecture is its own brand of fallacious reasoning. Can Microsoft potentially benefit? Certainly. But that doesn't negate the possibility of genuine user security motivations and benefits for end users
- exe34 2y ago
  > Can Microsoft potentially benefit? Certainly. But that doesn't negate the possibility of genuine user security motivations and benefits for end users it's important to ask which one of the motivations will allow them to lock users down and ask for ongoing rent. one of these two will, and that's what will always drive the decision.
heraldgeezer 2y ago
>does anyone still believe that Pluton, also copy-pasted from the Xbox, is about end user security? I never did. The worst part is explaining it to people drinking the MS coolaid. I'm an MS admin so people at work love Win11, Intune etc all that max lockdown shit. To me that's not what Windows is about, for me Windows is excellent because of the admin tools and backwards compatibility. But hey that's just me. Proton will be another TPM thing, introduce it, wait 5 years, then mandate it. They have time.
- criddell 2y ago
  Another TPM thing? What problem do you have with the TPM?
  - heraldgeezer 2y ago
    It being a Win11 requirement. It failing and triggering Bitlocker on our machines. It's just shit :) No I don't have another solution. Let me complain.
    - dangus 2y ago
      What garbage hardware are you running where TPM is failing?
      - kotaKat 2y ago
        Every Windows Update that Lenovo kept pushing UEFI updates on their shiny new X13s with the Snapdragon and the Pluton chip in it kept tripping Bitlocker on every update. So, uh... Lenovo?
        semi-extrinsic 2y ago
        FWIW, my old corpo HP would also trigger Bitlocker sometimes on random shit, such as upgrading the firmware of the docking station. But that was usually fixable either by unplugging USB devices while booting, or just trying many reboots until Bitlocker suddenly decided everything was OK.
      - mavhc 2y ago
        Had about 25% of our Dell laptops' TPM fail, got to know the repair technician well.
  - 1oooqooq 2y ago
    TPM end game is to have identity tied to a device on pcs, just like the monopolies already have on Android and IOS. you know how google and apple dropped actual totp 2nd factor for their own accounts and force you to sign on another device to confirm signing on new devices? same thing.
- rkagerer 2y ago
  > But hey that's just me. There are more of us out there!
  - 4ggr0 2y ago
    There are literally dozens of us!
dist-epoch 2y ago
People have been saying that for more than 10 years now, since the TPM was introduced. Yet you can still install Linux on PCs sold with Windows, you can still install third party software on Windows not from a Store, you can still watch pirated movies downloaded from torrents. You can even run an unregistered/unpaid version of Windows if you don't mind that it will not let you change the desktop background image.
- croes 2y ago
  And Windows PCs are still not safe. So either way it fails it's purpose
  - dist-epoch 2y ago
    Most Windows PCs have Secure Boot enabled the many have the drives encrypted with Bitlocker.
    - doubled112 2y ago
      What does that do for me to stop malware? Bitlocker is only protecting an offline system Also consider that some keys for Secure Boot have been compromised.
      - dist-epoch 2y ago
        So I guess then your computer does not have a form of Secure Boot enabled, and your drives are not encrypted. Makes sense, more secure.
        doubled112 2y ago
        I’m using Linux and LUKS but have never been convinced Secure Boot adds anything for me. It does sometimes add extra steps though, or block a driver from loading.
        2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

dgellow 2y ago

I may be naive, but I still do. Skepticism is warranted, yet outright dismissal based on conjecture is its own brand of fallacious reasoning. Can Microsoft potentially benefit? Certainly. But that doesn't negate the possibility of genuine user security motivations and benefits for end users

exe34 2y ago
> Can Microsoft potentially benefit? Certainly. But that doesn't negate the possibility of genuine user security motivations and benefits for end users it's important to ask which one of the motivations will allow them to lock users down and ask for ongoing rent. one of these two will, and that's what will always drive the decision.

heraldgeezer 2y ago

>does anyone still believe that Pluton, also copy-pasted from the Xbox, is about end user security? I never did. The worst part is explaining it to people drinking the MS coolaid. I'm an MS admin so people at work love Win11, Intune etc all that max lockdown shit. To me that's not what Windows is about, for me Windows is excellent because of the admin tools and backwards compatibility. But hey that's just me. Proton will be another TPM thing, introduce it, wait 5 years, then mandate it. They have time.

criddell 2y ago
Another TPM thing? What problem do you have with the TPM?
- heraldgeezer 2y ago
  It being a Win11 requirement. It failing and triggering Bitlocker on our machines. It's just shit :) No I don't have another solution. Let me complain.
  - dangus 2y ago
    What garbage hardware are you running where TPM is failing?
    - kotaKat 2y ago
      Every Windows Update that Lenovo kept pushing UEFI updates on their shiny new X13s with the Snapdragon and the Pluton chip in it kept tripping Bitlocker on every update. So, uh... Lenovo?
      - semi-extrinsic 2y ago
        FWIW, my old corpo HP would also trigger Bitlocker sometimes on random shit, such as upgrading the firmware of the docking station. But that was usually fixable either by unplugging USB devices while booting, or just trying many reboots until Bitlocker suddenly decided everything was OK.
    - mavhc 2y ago
      Had about 25% of our Dell laptops' TPM fail, got to know the repair technician well.
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  TPM end game is to have identity tied to a device on pcs, just like the monopolies already have on Android and IOS. you know how google and apple dropped actual totp 2nd factor for their own accounts and force you to sign on another device to confirm signing on new devices? same thing.
rkagerer 2y ago
> But hey that's just me. There are more of us out there!
- 4ggr0 2y ago
  There are literally dozens of us!

dist-epoch 2y ago

People have been saying that for more than 10 years now, since the TPM was introduced. Yet you can still install Linux on PCs sold with Windows, you can still install third party software on Windows not from a Store, you can still watch pirated movies downloaded from torrents. You can even run an unregistered/unpaid version of Windows if you don't mind that it will not let you change the desktop background image.

croes 2y ago
And Windows PCs are still not safe. So either way it fails it's purpose
- dist-epoch 2y ago
  Most Windows PCs have Secure Boot enabled the many have the drives encrypted with Bitlocker.
  - doubled112 2y ago
    What does that do for me to stop malware? Bitlocker is only protecting an offline system Also consider that some keys for Secure Boot have been compromised.
    - dist-epoch 2y ago
      So I guess then your computer does not have a form of Secure Boot enabled, and your drives are not encrypted. Makes sense, more secure.
      - doubled112 2y ago
        I’m using Linux and LUKS but have never been convinced Secure Boot adds anything for me. It does sometimes add extra steps though, or block a driver from loading.
        2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]