7 ms·

I'm really curious, how do you factor in time to learn ("up skill")? I'm a self taught dev with 2 young kids. I've always had a healthy approach to work, but n

by kody 2y ago

I'm really curious, how do you factor in time to learn ("up skill")? I'm a self taught dev with 2 young kids. I've always had a healthy approach to work, but now I'm feeling quite a lot of pressure to learn new things on my own time, whether to make sure I'm prepared for the interview circuit if I get laid off, or to patch my skills that are needed at work. I'm starting to feel burnout creep in, getting an hour of study in the morning, taking care of family, and then working 8 hours. I appreciate your insight.

parpfish 2y ago
If you’re learning a thing that you actually do for your job (eg, new language or tech), do the studying and training during work hours
Bayko 2y ago
Unfortunately when it comes to preparing for interview leetcode is pretty much required at all stages. For that the way that works for me is to never let go of it. I will solve 2 3 problems over a week even when I have a job. That downtime at work when you are at home or waiting for the next meeting...just leetcode. I absolutely hate LC and hate the fact that it is omnipresent but now no longer fear it. Except Dynamic programming. That thing can go f*ck itself. But ya now when it comes to LC I am "always" or rather one week away from interview ready.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  > Unfortunately when it comes to preparing for interview leetcode is pretty much required at all stages. I have never had a leetcode-style interview in 40 years. (I may have had one such question, maybe - hard to remember for sure.) So, no, it is not required at all stages. Disclaimer: I'm in embedded systems, which is very different from FAANG.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Also never interviewed at FAANG and never been asked to write code in an interview
    - swatcoder 2y ago
      I'm with you and the GP, but I suspect all three of us have pursued a balanced and satisfying career instead of the one with top of market compensation. Some of the folks here don't see alternative options when FAANG compensation is some integer multiple of what the rest of the industry has been supporting for the last 40+ years, and I don't entirely blame them for that. I'm not surprised when some later find themselves miserable and feel like they're trapped by golden handcuffs and insufferable bureaucracy, but I understand how they got there.
      - batshit_beaver 2y ago
        As someone currently in the process of trying to move from a cushy, interesting startup job to a soulless FAANG for that compensation multiple, the ONLY reason I'm doing it is because I have a young kid now. I wish there was another way, but it is genuinely impossible to provide a comfortable level of family life on a startup salary, unless your partner is also in tech and is ok with not being a stay at home parent.
        eropple 2y ago
        There are other companies, too. I work at, statistically speaking, Your Phone Company, and they don't pay FAANG money but they certainly pay a lot better than I was doing at startups. Caveat: I don't live in the Bay Area, though the Boston area isn't exactly cheap.
        toomuchtodo 2y ago
        I hope it’s a great experience there, have friends in the risk/cyber areas and have heard nothing but good things.
  - parpfish 2y ago
    I’ve run into a leetcode once over the course of five job hunts. There’s always some sort of screener that may use a leetcode style interface, but the problem is something like fizzbuzz/write a function to say if a number is prime/etc. The interview is about finding the obvious resume frauds and seeing if they can communicate their problem solving process, not finding a genius that’ll invent new algorithms
  - giantg2 2y ago
    Funny enough, I just had my first LeetCode question ever... for an internal job posting. Wtf
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      That is dystopian level hilarious.
      - giantg2 2y ago
        We normally do minor fizz buzz code screens internally. But that's just a small test to see how much of the tech you know, like if you were switching from say Python Lambdas to Angular front-end. And it's mostly to see about how you approach the problem. But some of the internal postions do it differently. My favorite was a mock code review on a PR that had intentional flaws. Then you'd call put what was wrong and how to fix it - not just pure code but also requirements, tests, commit messages, etc. LeetCode is different though. The rating and stuff. Even the interface... I still don't know what it's doing behind the scenes to run the code and feed inputs and what those inputs are. Believe it or not, this LeetCode interview wasn't my worst internal code screen. I once had one that HR said to bring my laptop and use any language I wanted. When I got there, the manager handed me a Mac (which I've never used), told me to use Angular to create a page with a table (hadn't used Angular at that point), and told me to do it in Webstorm (most teams were still using Eclipse at that time, so no experience here either). I managed to Google my way to a working table, but cut the interview short when he wanted me to style it. It's and internal posting. I clearly know the basics and got something working, even in the worst possible interview scenario where I didn't know the tools at all. Surely I can learn the rest (this was a midlevel posting, not even senior).
        taurath 2y ago
        You can be assured that the person who actually got the job worked on a Mac in Angular using Webstorm and that nobody wants to entertain ideas that their methods of interviewing are in any way tipping the scales.
        2y ago
  - dheera 2y ago
    The weird thing is I've gotten everything from no code to entry level to ultra-hard coding questions in FAANG-level interviews. I also have a hunch I've gotten easier coding questions when an existing team member referred me to hiring for their own team.
- kody 2y ago
  Funny enough I had an interview today with a dynamic programming whiteboard problem. I feel like if I hadn't been putting in my leetcode hours I would have totally bombed
  - TheKarateKid 2y ago
    Apparently Google and finance firms are the ones that still ask dynamic programming. If any non-FAANG company is asking that, especially startups, I'd tell them to get off their high horse.
Baeocystin 2y ago
You do it during work hours. Period. Your brain only has so many truly 'on' hours in a day, and it's already less than 8. Trying to burn even more in the pursuit of complex knowledge isn't just robbing Peter to pay Paul, it's eating the seed corn and wondering why your harvest failed. It's a scary thing to realize, and can be hard to stick with. But limits are real, and respecting them gets more work done in the long run than not.
- livearchivist 2y ago
  100% This is so important. I have a 3yo and wife, I currently work for a series-A startup - It's incredibly easy to do things out of hours, answer messages, train, lab things up, etc... But at the end of the day that is a part of my career. So except for when I'm traveling for work, I don't do a GD thing past 5pm, unless i choose to. When I choose to, it's likely because a lot of my team is in IST time zone rather than EST. When you're a family person, your job is to be there for yourself first, your family second, your other commitments after that. I have a weekly 4:30p friday call. Would i rather have that at 1:30p? Yes. But i've chosen to work remotely in Ohio instead of move to Cali like the last four companies have asked. So I take that friday 4:30p call. But you better believe that i check out until monday after that. During the week I'll take odd hour calls for my counter-parts in IST, but that's nearly entirely out of courtesy than necessity. Take care of things in the following order: 1. You, as a human, holistically 2. Your family, spouse first, kids second 3. Your work 4. Everything else It's reduced a huge portion of stress from my life by doing this.
  - jaredhallen 2y ago
    You've said it twice, and I'll reiterate it a third time. Your own well being has to come first. You can't deliver on the rest of your commitments if you neglect your own needs. Being a martyr does not serve those who depend on you.
    - antimemetics 2y ago
      If you can’t love yourself how are you going to love someone else?
rramadass 2y ago
Advice from another thread : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41462980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41462980
brailsafe 2y ago
I'd agree with what others have answered (do it on company time if it's company related), but although I don't have kids, I've burnt out quite badly 2 or 3 times. Apathy is the scar tissue you get from burnout, it's helpful in avoiding it after recovery, but it's best if you don't include your family in that. If possible (probably if you try hard enough) I'd suggest separating the things you want or feel you should learn into the things you're learning for yourself and things you're learning for your job, and then allocate a deliberate day or significant block to just that. Ask for help from your family if possible in letting you occasionally just isolate and immerse. Jon Carmack does this, and although I'm just an average guy or w/e, I've found it to be the only way to give hard subjects the attention they actually require. For example, the Nand2Tetris project, Swift programming, Postgres, they really take some tinkering time and deliberate practice. Nothing super valuable comes from passively digesting podcasts while driving imo either, or walking down the street, or buying groceries, so take those airpods out if you're doing it, and let your brain take a break in those moments.
- reaperducer 2y ago
  Ask for help from your family if possible in letting you occasionally just isolate and immerse. My family wouldn't understand that, so I play hookie. Twice a year, I schedule a vacation day that I don't tell my family about. I act as if I'm going to work like normal, but I spend the day at the art museum or sitting in the park reading, or something else that doesn't involve anyone else.
  - dyingkneepad 2y ago
    And then some day someone will recognize you somewhere, tell your wife "hey, I saw reaperducer at the park today!", and then she will think you're cheating on her.
  - brailsafe 2y ago
    I mean, that sounds great, I can totally get behind this in a way. My big thing is being able to protect my sense of autonomy, even when I'm responsible for things or obligated toward others. If I literally can't take a day away from my phone or without telling people where I am, I've found myself in a risky space emotionally. So I'll occasionally leave the phone at home, or go hiking from sun up to after nightfall alone with the phone off, only maybe telling someone (including my spouse). People need their own space. In addition to my previous comment, burnout seems to happen when you're working a lot on something you don't really control the outcome or reward of, along with the presence of some force that gradually erodes your sense of autonomy. If you feel like someone else is the arbiter of not just most of your energy, but all of it, over a long enough period of time, you'll grow to resent yourself, those people, and the work.

by kody 2y ago

parpfish 2y ago

If you’re learning a thing that you actually do for your job (eg, new language or tech), do the studying and training during work hours

Bayko 2y ago

Unfortunately when it comes to preparing for interview leetcode is pretty much required at all stages. For that the way that works for me is to never let go of it. I will solve 2 3 problems over a week even when I have a job. That downtime at work when you are at home or waiting for the next meeting...just leetcode. I absolutely hate LC and hate the fact that it is omnipresent but now no longer fear it. Except Dynamic programming. That thing can go f*ck itself. But ya now when it comes to LC I am "always" or rather one week away from interview ready.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
> Unfortunately when it comes to preparing for interview leetcode is pretty much required at all stages. I have never had a leetcode-style interview in 40 years. (I may have had one such question, maybe - hard to remember for sure.) So, no, it is not required at all stages. Disclaimer: I'm in embedded systems, which is very different from FAANG.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Also never interviewed at FAANG and never been asked to write code in an interview
  - swatcoder 2y ago
    I'm with you and the GP, but I suspect all three of us have pursued a balanced and satisfying career instead of the one with top of market compensation. Some of the folks here don't see alternative options when FAANG compensation is some integer multiple of what the rest of the industry has been supporting for the last 40+ years, and I don't entirely blame them for that. I'm not surprised when some later find themselves miserable and feel like they're trapped by golden handcuffs and insufferable bureaucracy, but I understand how they got there.
    - batshit_beaver 2y ago
      As someone currently in the process of trying to move from a cushy, interesting startup job to a soulless FAANG for that compensation multiple, the ONLY reason I'm doing it is because I have a young kid now. I wish there was another way, but it is genuinely impossible to provide a comfortable level of family life on a startup salary, unless your partner is also in tech and is ok with not being a stay at home parent.
      - eropple 2y ago
        There are other companies, too. I work at, statistically speaking, Your Phone Company, and they don't pay FAANG money but they certainly pay a lot better than I was doing at startups. Caveat: I don't live in the Bay Area, though the Boston area isn't exactly cheap.
        toomuchtodo 2y ago
        I hope it’s a great experience there, have friends in the risk/cyber areas and have heard nothing but good things.
- parpfish 2y ago
  I’ve run into a leetcode once over the course of five job hunts. There’s always some sort of screener that may use a leetcode style interface, but the problem is something like fizzbuzz/write a function to say if a number is prime/etc. The interview is about finding the obvious resume frauds and seeing if they can communicate their problem solving process, not finding a genius that’ll invent new algorithms
- giantg2 2y ago
  Funny enough, I just had my first LeetCode question ever... for an internal job posting. Wtf
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    That is dystopian level hilarious.
    - giantg2 2y ago
      We normally do minor fizz buzz code screens internally. But that's just a small test to see how much of the tech you know, like if you were switching from say Python Lambdas to Angular front-end. And it's mostly to see about how you approach the problem. But some of the internal postions do it differently. My favorite was a mock code review on a PR that had intentional flaws. Then you'd call put what was wrong and how to fix it - not just pure code but also requirements, tests, commit messages, etc. LeetCode is different though. The rating and stuff. Even the interface... I still don't know what it's doing behind the scenes to run the code and feed inputs and what those inputs are. Believe it or not, this LeetCode interview wasn't my worst internal code screen. I once had one that HR said to bring my laptop and use any language I wanted. When I got there, the manager handed me a Mac (which I've never used), told me to use Angular to create a page with a table (hadn't used Angular at that point), and told me to do it in Webstorm (most teams were still using Eclipse at that time, so no experience here either). I managed to Google my way to a working table, but cut the interview short when he wanted me to style it. It's and internal posting. I clearly know the basics and got something working, even in the worst possible interview scenario where I didn't know the tools at all. Surely I can learn the rest (this was a midlevel posting, not even senior).
      - taurath 2y ago
        You can be assured that the person who actually got the job worked on a Mac in Angular using Webstorm and that nobody wants to entertain ideas that their methods of interviewing are in any way tipping the scales.
      - 2y ago
- dheera 2y ago
  The weird thing is I've gotten everything from no code to entry level to ultra-hard coding questions in FAANG-level interviews. I also have a hunch I've gotten easier coding questions when an existing team member referred me to hiring for their own team.
kody 2y ago
Funny enough I had an interview today with a dynamic programming whiteboard problem. I feel like if I hadn't been putting in my leetcode hours I would have totally bombed
- TheKarateKid 2y ago
  Apparently Google and finance firms are the ones that still ask dynamic programming. If any non-FAANG company is asking that, especially startups, I'd tell them to get off their high horse.

Baeocystin 2y ago

You do it during work hours. Period. Your brain only has so many truly 'on' hours in a day, and it's already less than 8. Trying to burn even more in the pursuit of complex knowledge isn't just robbing Peter to pay Paul, it's eating the seed corn and wondering why your harvest failed. It's a scary thing to realize, and can be hard to stick with. But limits are real, and respecting them gets more work done in the long run than not.

livearchivist 2y ago
100% This is so important. I have a 3yo and wife, I currently work for a series-A startup - It's incredibly easy to do things out of hours, answer messages, train, lab things up, etc... But at the end of the day that is a part of my career. So except for when I'm traveling for work, I don't do a GD thing past 5pm, unless i choose to. When I choose to, it's likely because a lot of my team is in IST time zone rather than EST. When you're a family person, your job is to be there for yourself first, your family second, your other commitments after that. I have a weekly 4:30p friday call. Would i rather have that at 1:30p? Yes. But i've chosen to work remotely in Ohio instead of move to Cali like the last four companies have asked. So I take that friday 4:30p call. But you better believe that i check out until monday after that. During the week I'll take odd hour calls for my counter-parts in IST, but that's nearly entirely out of courtesy than necessity. Take care of things in the following order: 1. You, as a human, holistically 2. Your family, spouse first, kids second 3. Your work 4. Everything else It's reduced a huge portion of stress from my life by doing this.
- jaredhallen 2y ago
  You've said it twice, and I'll reiterate it a third time. Your own well being has to come first. You can't deliver on the rest of your commitments if you neglect your own needs. Being a martyr does not serve those who depend on you.
  - antimemetics 2y ago
    If you can’t love yourself how are you going to love someone else?

rramadass 2y ago

Advice from another thread : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41462980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41462980

brailsafe 2y ago

I'd agree with what others have answered (do it on company time if it's company related), but although I don't have kids, I've burnt out quite badly 2 or 3 times. Apathy is the scar tissue you get from burnout, it's helpful in avoiding it after recovery, but it's best if you don't include your family in that. If possible (probably if you try hard enough) I'd suggest separating the things you want or feel you should learn into the things you're learning for yourself and things you're learning for your job, and then allocate a deliberate day or significant block to just that. Ask for help from your family if possible in letting you occasionally just isolate and immerse. Jon Carmack does this, and although I'm just an average guy or w/e, I've found it to be the only way to give hard subjects the attention they actually require. For example, the Nand2Tetris project, Swift programming, Postgres, they really take some tinkering time and deliberate practice. Nothing super valuable comes from passively digesting podcasts while driving imo either, or walking down the street, or buying groceries, so take those airpods out if you're doing it, and let your brain take a break in those moments.

reaperducer 2y ago
Ask for help from your family if possible in letting you occasionally just isolate and immerse. My family wouldn't understand that, so I play hookie. Twice a year, I schedule a vacation day that I don't tell my family about. I act as if I'm going to work like normal, but I spend the day at the art museum or sitting in the park reading, or something else that doesn't involve anyone else.
- dyingkneepad 2y ago
  And then some day someone will recognize you somewhere, tell your wife "hey, I saw reaperducer at the park today!", and then she will think you're cheating on her.
- brailsafe 2y ago
  I mean, that sounds great, I can totally get behind this in a way. My big thing is being able to protect my sense of autonomy, even when I'm responsible for things or obligated toward others. If I literally can't take a day away from my phone or without telling people where I am, I've found myself in a risky space emotionally. So I'll occasionally leave the phone at home, or go hiking from sun up to after nightfall alone with the phone off, only maybe telling someone (including my spouse). People need their own space. In addition to my previous comment, burnout seems to happen when you're working a lot on something you don't really control the outcome or reward of, along with the presence of some force that gradually erodes your sense of autonomy. If you feel like someone else is the arbiter of not just most of your energy, but all of it, over a long enough period of time, you'll grow to resent yourself, those people, and the work.