7 ms·

Shaving is too expensive

86 points by fanf2 2y ago

AlexandrB 2y ago
What he points out is true, but I could never get comfortable shaving with a double blade razor (constant razor burn) whereas the cartridge razors were much easier to use and get a comfortable shave. I wish there was a middle ground where you could have a durable multi-blade razor body and still replace individual blades instead of the whole head. Edit: Some of the other examples given are less strong (tea is still pennies a serving when buying in bag form). However electronic bike shifting systems always seem absurd to me. You mean I have to charge my bicycle!?
- Levitating 2y ago
  Maybe you need better shaving cream. I use some sort of slimy soap, works well.
  - AlexandrB 2y ago
    I tried the whole "old school" stack: double edge razor, Wilkinson shaving soap, hog hair brush. Still got a more comfortable result with a cartridge + any kind of soap (even hand soap). It's probably a question of getting more skilled/practiced with it, but now I keep a beard so I shave quite rarely.
- gvurrdon 2y ago
  You beat me to it. I can never get a pleasant shave from a DE blade, even using high quality soap and a brush.
- nayuki 2y ago
  I largely agree with the article, but... > Well understood mechanical bike shifting transitions to electronic shifting which requires you to pay more and charge your pedal bike This has been on my mind lately. I own a bike with mechanical cable shifters and derailleurs. I've talked to friends who had to maintain these parts over the years, and even seen one maintenance session personally. Namely, you have to change the steel cable every so often because water and dirt enter through the ends and contaminate the cable. And after every few cable changes, you need to change the housing as well. Ask anyone who has ridden over 10 000 km, and they will tell you that they've changed the cable and/or housing during that operational period. Also, cables stretch and shift over time, and even without changing the cable or housing, you have to constantly re-tune the cable tension to ensure crisp shifting and not get stuck between gears - you probably have to do this every 1000 km. Electronic (wireless) shifters/derailleurs don't have this particular failure mode because there is no mechanical cable. Sure, the derailleur needs lubrication and occasional maintenance, and you need to charge/change the batteries, and of course you need to make sure you don't destroy any electrical cables. But I believe the maintenance of as electronic shifting system requires far less labor. Electronic shifting isn't just a cash-cow gimmick; it offers real advantages. Another point is that some cargo bikes with a long distance between the rider and the derailleur(s) use electronic shifting instead of running a long cable, which again reduces maintenance and failure modes.
- sliken 2y ago
  On road I don't see the point, any decent derailleur works well in all conditions you regularly experience. Generally rides (consciously or not) let up on the torque to improve shifting, not a big deal. However on a MTB it's more challenging, more forces (sideways, skidding, jumps, rock gardens, etc), larger temperature changes, more variable torque (large gear ranges and suspension travel induced torque), and more need for shifting under full torque. For example when climbing a steep technical climb strewn with rocks and roots. All cassettes in the last few decades have on/off ramps to help shifting, however it's pretty much the luck of the draw when you shift, doubly so when shifting multiple gears at once. SRAM has managed quite the evolution and got the bike industry on board. First they replaced the weakest part of the frame (I've personally lost a frame to this), the derailleur hanger. Now the derailleur is effectively attacked to the rear hub and is perfectly aligned, there's all kinds of silly demos showing them being hit by hammers or standing on them when the bike is on it's side. I saw a study showing that on 5 year old bikes something approximately 50% of bikes has a misaligned hanger, enough to make shifting worse. Now with that crazy big improvement in strength, durability, alignment, and best of all the bike industry now doesn't require a custom hanger for every bike with variable derailleur positioning, it can now just design in the bike axle. Now they have a electronic shifter that gets rid of temp variability, cable issues, and can tuck in to avoid hits. It also knows where the ramps are, so it can shift exactly when needed, which allows full torque shifting seemlessly. In fact people complain it doesn't work particularly well when on a bike stand, but does extremely well when actually ridden on the trail. Is it worth the cost, complexity, and charging once a month? That's up to the end user, but it is a pretty noticeable improvement. Some ebikes can supply the derailleur from the main battery. I'm pretty late to the game with most bike developments, but I'm considering this one, perfect shifting under load is pretty attractive. My current bike is pretty finicky shifting wise. I replace the cable, casing, and clean/lubricate my derailleur and it gets better, not great though or at least not for long.
harimau777 2y ago
I think that it's also important to consider that it's much easier to cut oneself when using a double edge razor. The multiple blades locked to a specific angle that makes a modern razor safer likely also contributes to its greater cost and plastic waste. I suspect that it's more also difficult to travel with exposed blades than with modern cartridges; both due to the ease of packing and due to security hassles. Personally I started shaving using an electric razor, switched to a double edged razor, and then eventually switched to a modern razor.
- 0x1ch 2y ago
  I went from cheap disposables, to a safety razor, back to electric. Prefer the new electric razors, but nothing will beat the safety razor for a clean shave.
  - buu700 2y ago
    I went from a cheap electric ages ago, to cartridge razors, to a DE safety razor, stuck with that for a decade, and finally landed back on electric. Modern electric razors give me the best shave I've ever gotten. The shave is as close as it needs to be for all practical purposes, but it's much gentler with essentially no risk of cuts, bumps, or irritation. I use a Braun Series 9 on my head and face (Panasonic Arc is supposedly great too) and a Philips OneBlade on my neck (the less close shave avoids causing bumps), in a hot shower with whatever oil I have on hand for pre-shave (MCT) and either Cremo, eos UltraProtect, or Amazon Basics shaving cream (these three all do about the same job, but I had to experiment with a bunch of others that were awful). The Braun 9 is a bit of an up front investment, but beyond that the ongoing costs are fairly low as long as you maintain it properly. Factoring in cleaning/lubrication supplies, replacement heads, and shaving cream, I'd ballpark it at around $10/mo.
- Barrin92 2y ago
  >The multiple blades locked to a specific angle that makes a modern razor safer So are the blades in double edged razors, which is why they're also called ... safety razors. The cap at the top and the bottom basically fix the blade at a particular angle, when you angle it wrong it just won't really cut. They were literally designed so people could shave at home instead of going to the barber.
deleted 2y ago
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gvurrdon 2y ago
Using the old style of double-edged razors would be great. But, I have never managed to use them successfully - there's always a degree of nicks and razor burn. Fans of this style of razor would claim that this will be poor technique and they may even be right, but not everyone can be good at it, apparently. If someone were to invent a razor which can use cheap double-edged blades and not be unpleasant to use I'd certainly buy it. BTW, the old Rolls Razor turns out to give a very good shave and a blade can last a lifetime. Its only disadvantage as far as I can tell is that it takes much longer to shave with (presumably not a problem for those who actually enjoy shaving).
- _fat_santa 2y ago
  You have to let your skin get used to it. When I first started I got tons of nicks and cuts and razor burn. Do it for a week or so and you'll get better and your skin will get used to it.
  - gvurrdon 2y ago
    I've tried for weeks and it's never got any more pleasant.
    - LeSaucy 2y ago
      Lots of room for skin types to play here, I found that Astra blades were the least likely to nick and cause irritation. If I am in a rush I can even use them dry (with the grain only!).
      - itbeho 2y ago
        I love Astra blades. Smooth shave with my RazoRock Game Changer.
    - mr_mitm 2y ago
      Same for me. I tried different blades and everything. Sometimes I think it's all a huge conspiracy to trick me, almost like cast iron pan fanatics (always a mess for me).
BiteCode_dev 2y ago
- There are cheaper alternatives to both the razors the author is showing. - You don't need to shave every day, especially with 2024 social norms, you choose to. - Nobody forces you to use a disposable razor. You can use a straight razor. You can use an electric shaver. I use both. But it turns out disposable razors saves your from cuts and learning technics and people want that. - So you really pay £40/year (which is not huge) for the convenience of a disposable razor, and not even the cheap ones. And the fact you want to shave every day. That reads like an Ad, except I don't know what OP is selling.
- fsckboy 2y ago
  >You don't need to shave every day, especially with 2024 social norms, you choose to. different people have vastly different shaving needs, you can't put everybody in the same box like that. learn to be curious about other people's experiences, and their reasons, you can choose to too!
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - blueflow 2y ago
    Shaving is a hassle. If people insist that its part of their life, its their choice and thus largely their own responsibility.
    - organsnyder 2y ago
      Going against social norms often comes at a cost. Many people have enough other things going against them that they need to get whatever small advantages they can.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      Showering is also a hassle. How far do you want to take this logic?
      - 2y ago
paxys 2y ago
People are willing to pay money for convenience and safety. This isn't some grand conspiracy, but just how the world works.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  There is a reason they are writing a blogpost (affiliate links?) instead of creating a successful business that solves the supposed problem of shaving being too expensive.
  - horsawlarway 2y ago
    Isn't that basically his point, though? I read this as a reflection on the fact that our current economic system incentivizes and promotes companies that refuse to make/sell low-margin goods. It rewards companies that instead make high-margin goods, even when those high-margin goods are genuinely worse for consumers in general. I read this as another poke at capitalism and how it utterly falls down in making efficient markets when there is information asymmetry. And it shows that information asymmetry is easy to artificially introduce, and it's beneficial to sellers (perhaps even required by sellers) to do so. --- Basically - successful safety razor companies exist, but you literally cannot buy their products in person. Stores don't want to sell them, and you won't see commercials for them either (low margin goods usually don't have the budget to spam you with marketing). So the consumer is mislead into purchasing a much more expensive option by default, outside of extensive personal research into what should be an easy choice. If you think Razors are the only place this is happening... I promise it's not. The issue isn't that you can't create a company that sells safety razors. It's that market incentives drive those companies out of sight of consumers by default. The end result is bad for the average consumer.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      Where is the evidence? Retail business earn minuscule profit margins (this is public info via SEC filings). Walmart famously demands its suppliers to sell to it at near breakeven price, and Walmart’s vendors complain that Walmart pushes them to the brink. The much simpler and likelier explanation is that the demand for safety razors does not justify the shelf space. And it’s 2024, information is everywhere. If people wanted safety razors, they would get them.
blueridge 2y ago
I'd recommend: https://leafshave.com/pages/face-shaving-with-leaf https://leafshave.com/pages/face-shaving-with-leaf
- InvaderFizz 2y ago
  I have the Twig and the triple blade. The twig is definitely my preferred. The triple blade is fine for shaving large areas, but any detail work and it's useless. The twig does need to be cleaned very often, but it's not a big deal and it is better than any DE I have used in the past. Much less irritation and nicks than my DEs in the past.
liveoneggs 2y ago
Now do an electric razor?
fsckboy 2y ago
Brush Plus from Gillette was an incredible product (it's shaving cream in a tube dispenser with a application brush, all-in-one): perfect combination of clings to your face, softens hair, and smooth slick glide. I once met the former product manager for it at a cocktail party and said I loved it, he said "you were the only one." https://www.youtube.com/embed/ByAAI0umHHo https://www.youtube.com/embed/ByAAI0umHHo also, on the subject, you all owe it to yourselves to get a few styptic pencils, they are dirt cheap, and stop bleeding from nicks (or pimples) really fast, at the cost of some sting, but even that is bracing. that which does not kill you makes you stronger
loloquwowndueo 2y ago
“The double edged razor has become a product that you can only buy on the internet, and which you will only buy if you know that it exists.” The first seems like a non-problem - I already buy everything but groceries on the Internet. The second is a publicity issue, if safety razor companies really wanted to, they could advertise the shit out of their products and “cheaper and generates less waste” is going to be a huge selling point tbh. I only use a disposable razor when travelling (hard to get razor blades through airports security!) and at home I alternate between safety razor and electric razor depending on how much time I have. My first electric razor lasted 20 years, so that’s also a much better investment than tons of stupid expensive Gillette razors/cartridges.
_fat_santa 2y ago
IMO I think that safety razors are superior to the modern cartridge razors in every single way. They are way cheaper and I found that once you learn how to use it properly, it will give you a closer shave than a cartridge razor.
Bjartr 2y ago
I've been happily using a double-edge razor since college (am now 35) I bought a box of blades about six years ago for $20, I'm just now down to the last few blades and will have to reorder soon.
sixdonuts 2y ago
Shaving is not expensive if you simply clean the blade after using it. Cleaning the blades slows the oxidation process on the edge which is the primary contributor to poor blade performance.
- fsckboy 2y ago
  I once friend-of-a-friend met somebody, a materials science grad student who had "invented/applied" a high tech alloy to the edge that allowed for blades to last at least 10x. But instead of for shaving, the big money was in blades sold to flooring carpet cutters, they use a new blade for every cut. His selling proposition was (conservative) 5x which would really increase productivity/save labor. Problem is, his market was too scared to try it, at the risk of messing up an expensive piece of carpet which had been ordered in fixed quantity, they'd rather just put in a new blade, the cost wasn't an issue.
codingwagie 2y ago
I just reuse the same razor for months on end, sometimes six months. It gets dull, which is actually great. I get far more face cuts from a sharp razor. The dull ones I find are highly effective. I always use premium razors. I dont use shaving cream either, just some bar soap when I am in the shower. The hot shower seems to make my skin easier to shave. Shaving with dry skin (with shaving cream) in front of a mirror is a nightmare, and has resulted in far more cuts for me
- drawkward 2y ago
  This whole post is a nightmare! Ouch! ;)
  - codingwagie 2y ago
    to each his own
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    I shave with only water and a philips oneblade (because I also trim). I used to just use whatever schick quattro or Gillette equivalent was cheapest when I kept a clean shave. And I can use the same blade for at least a year, maybe even 2.
- mint2 2y ago
  But why would one ever shave with dry skin in front of a mirror? Walking barefoot on burning hot asphalt is also a nightmare and coincidentally also not how it’s meant to be done.
  - codingwagie 2y ago
    I meant dry skin with shaving cream on it. It hurts more than just wet skin in a hot shower
- saratogacx 2y ago
  I'm similar. Shave in the shower with a 2 blade cartridge for 2-4 months. Thumb off the blade after use to clean and put it away until next time. No soap, no cream, no oil; just water, skin, and blade. I don't get cuts or bumps and have been using this arrangement for 10+ years.
dailykoder 2y ago
>Well understood mechanical bike shifting transitions to electronic shifting which requires you to pay more and charge your pedal bike (Not sure about this example, as in theory a bike derailleur needs not be a repeated purchased) Electronic shifters just work tremendously better. I still don't use them. Edit: No, you usually don't need to change the derailleur. Just chain and sprockets
astura 2y ago
Comeon, dude. People buy disposable cartridges because they are convenient and much easier to use than a straight razor or safety razor. It's not a fucking conspiracy. Same with tea bags (and I mostly drink loose leaf myself).
- mint2 2y ago
  Not the whole picture - razor burn caused by too close a shave is a lot easier to happen when there’s 3-5 blades
  - helf 2y ago
    I cant use disposable multi-blade razors for this exact reason.
drawkward 2y ago
I love my double edged razor. My two teenage sons, who are just beginning their shaving journey each have their own, and don't seem to have issues with razor burn and nicks. Maybe the "safety" features of disposable razors just let you be a lazy shaver, akin to the way "safety" features in cars can let you be a more distracted or lazy driver?
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  Pretty much. Five blades means I can shave much, much faster while not really paying attention to what I’m doing.
- nickthegreek 2y ago
  I love mine as well. It’s a 1968 Gillette N1 which was my father’s. I’ve tried “fancier” DE razor bodies and I hate them. This article just me realize how much I depend on this specific razor. I’ve managed to find 3 for sale online and scooped up a backup to secure my future.
gusbremm 2y ago
One can make it even cheaper sharpening used double razors. There used to be devices just for that.
Fraterkes 2y ago
A while ago I watched the tv adaptation of "the underground railroad" and theres a scene where one of the main characters uses a kind of hair-removing or growth-inhibiting cream to "shave" without using a razor. Anyone know if that's a real thing?
- r2_pilot 2y ago
  Nair exists as a product (basically potassium thioglycolate and calcium hydroxide).
- drawkward 2y ago
  https://www.naircare.com https://www.naircare.com
- astura 2y ago
  Yes, Nair - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nair_(hair_removal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nair_(hair_removal) I've used it (on my legs, I'm a lady). It's expensive if you use it regularly and shaving is easier cuz you have to let the Nair sit on your skin for several minutes IIRC (it was 25 yrs ago).
- mikestew 2y ago
  I’m not familiar with the TV you are referring to, but there are certainly creams as you describe: https://www.naircare.com/en/products/bladeless-shave-lavender https://www.naircare.com/en/products/bladeless-shave-lavende... I wouldn’t use it on my face, but it worked fine on my legs back when I was racing bicycles.
jmcphers 2y ago
I switched from cartridges to DE razors a couple of years ago for many of the reasons listed in the article. The article unfairly doesn't list many of the advantages of cartridges, which drove adoption of them over the dominant DE razors of yesteryear. Cartridge shaving is just easier, faster, and more convenient. Multiple blades and pivoting heads let you absentmindedly drag the razor over your face and get a very good shave. It takes me probably 25 - 50% longer to shave with a DE blade because I need to make more passes and shave more carefully to avoid cuts. Even so, I cut myself more often than I do with a cartridge. I do it anyway, though, because it's just more mindful and engaging than a cartridge razor, and cheaper. The spent blades can even be recycled in the right container. Plus, shaving with hot water causes the metal body of the razor head to heat up, so you can get a hot shave, too. Try that with your plastic handle!
- riedel 2y ago
  In my student days I at some point decided to go from a double sided razor to using a belt for sharpening a traditionam razor. Didn't last long because this actually is labour intensive in maintenance and shaving. For years I used to break a DE blade in half's and use it in a fake traditional razor. Now I am using the double blade again and actual find it really easy and fast. I am always annoyed from cartridges as longer hair (I wear a beard) gets stuck and the double sided razor is much easier to clean.
teaearlgraycold 2y ago
I recently switched to a double edged safety razor. It took a week to learn how to use it properly, but I now don’t cut myself anymore than I would with a cartridge razor. The shave is better and the cost is lower. I had wondered if all of the hype and YouTube ads were trying to trick me. But no, it’s great! Just don’t buy one of those overpriced handles people are trying to sell to you.
samgranieri 2y ago
I don't shave everyday because I get better shaves if I do it like twice a week. I don't mind using a Gillette five blade razor and change out the blade like every other month
lgsilver 2y ago
If you’re supposed to replace modern cartridges every 3-5 shaves, I’ve been doing it wrong. The steel blades in a cartridge easily stay sharp through dozens of shaves. The reason people replace cartridges is because they get clogged with soap and hair. If you rinse them every time, they last significantly longer than single blades.
- 725686 2y ago
  Exactly my thoughts. 3-5 shaves? I use them for tens of shaves. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I'm glad I do.
- astura 2y ago
  I don't shave my face, cuz I'm a lady. I do shave my pubes and armpits regularly. I replace the cartridge on my razor like twice a year.
- afpx 2y ago
  I've been using the same mach 3 for the last 5-6 years, I think.
CydeWeys 2y ago
I kind of blame consumers for some of this stuff? Good options are still out there. Now, admittedly, I do have a full beard, so I only shave my upper cheeks and lower neck, but I've been making do with a Merkur long-handle double-sided safety razor (the model 23C) for about a decade and a half now, and those blades feel like they last forever. Plus, I bought 100 of the blades for like $10 on Amazon a decade ago, and still have the vast majority of them left. I think this supply might outlive me! So, yeah, good options are available out there for lots of things, it's just the consumers aren't picking them (or don't do research and thus aren't aware of their existence). And the manufacturers and retailers are understandably interested in pushing the products that make the highest profits for them, just like the consumer should have an interest in getting the best deal for themselves. But I don't know what the alternative would be.
cortesoft 2y ago
> Subscription services like Hello Fresh, where you can pay well over the odds to have some vegetables delivered to you. Isn’t this just paying extra to save the time of having to go to the shop? Whether that is worth it or not is going to vary by individual, but I don’t think people are stupid or being taken advantage of if they want to pay someone to save themselves time and effort… that is the foundation of a society.
deleted 2y ago
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M95D 2y ago
Start hoarding razor blades in preparation for 1984. :)
lbotos 2y ago
I went down the rabbit hole of trying alt razors: 1. Modern disposable multi-blade razors are actually really good. They are very efficient. 2. Safety razors take more time and attention, which could be a pro. 3. I settled on https://proofrazor.com/products/proof-single-blade https://proofrazor.com/products/proof-single-blade which is decent and very easy to adapt to if you are used to a regular razor, but definitely less efficient than the Gillette I was using prior. Less plastic was my goal, and my hair grows slow enough that I am not too bothered.
- Marthinwurer 2y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation, I like how they're adapting the pivoting head from the cartridge razors to the ecosystem of the safety razor. I've been using the Henson Razor, which tackles the safety razor skill issue by fixing the angle of the blade when it cuts. I've been pretty happy with it, but now you're making me want to try the one you've shared.
- fsckboy 2y ago
  >Modern disposable multi-blade razors are actually really good... ...multi is really good across your cheek, but getting into the "corner" between upper lip and nose? duals were ok, but better have a standby single blade at the ready.
maeil 2y ago
> Nespresso machines, and other coffee pod brands, replace many styles of coffee brewing. Provide much worse coffee, at a higher price but are superficially convenient. I dont think John quite realizes the quality of the coffee at the average office before such machines were a thing. It was much worse than capsule espresso, and I dislike Nestle as much as anyone else. The same for most people at home, really. And those who already made better coffee have kept doing so anyway. No, while capsule coffee is absurdly wasteful and there's plenty to criticize about it, the one positive thing is that it produces better coffee than what used to be the average.
- exitb 2y ago
  There are office-grade coffee machines that make espresso-based drinks with a single button press and work with beans. They’re not as good as a real machines with non-pressurized baskets, but not worse than the pods.
  - maeil 2y ago
    And those might be the common in SV tech companies, but not as much in the other 99% of the world (and even less so at the time that capsule coffee became popular). They do seem to be popular in places like coworking spaces and other shared facilities. But then they seem to buy the absolute cheapest bottom barrel beans, probably rarely clean the machines and so on, meaning it still just ends up worse than capsule coffee, or similar at best.
- compiler-guy 2y ago
  It's not "superficially" more convenient either. It is vastly more convenient and less messy. That does provide some value. It's an environmental disaster, and I never use Nespresso for that reason, but one ought to at least engage with the true reasons people use it.
deleted 2y ago
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Gualdrapo 2y ago
Been shaving my bald head for more than 10 years and went through disposable razors, cheap double edge razors, a shavette, an electric razor... Disposable razors will clog with just one shave, and they're difficult to wash and clean and they left me with irritation. Not even getting started about reusing them. They're the most expensive solution. A cheap double edge razor will give you cheap results. The ones I got here (for what would be about US$1.5) had slightly skewed corners, so you had to be really careful and moving your hands as straight as possible. And its grip is non existant when your hands are wet, so when you're shaving the back of your head it can be a bit dangerous as the shave handle can slip or spin and nick you. They corrode rather quickly and if yours falls to the ground, that's it. With a shavette, or a straight razor, you have to be even more careful - the blade is more exposed. I used to grab it near to the blade so I could have more certainty about the angle of it. I find it gave me a bit more irritation that the DE Razor and it's really difficult to near impossible to use it around and behind my ears. Though nobody beats it when shaving long hair - it can't clog. At last I could afford a Leaf razor - it's just absolutely great in almost every sense and though it's not cheap it was worth every penny - sans the clogging thing, but you can clean it almost as easily as a DE razor. Oh and maybe I wish the spring that moves its head to its original position was a bit more strong. Never have had a cut or nick with it and it gives the cleanest shave I've ever had. Got one for my father (he's going to be 88 - and he still has his head full of hair! I just didn't had luck with the genetic lottery) and he likes it too. I don't use special soaps for shaving nor oils or anything, just regular soap or thick shampoo and water (mostly because third world issues). Blades here can cost around US$0.35 per box (that little box that has 5 blades) so they're relatively cheap. With the Leaf razor I use the three spots so it's a blade and a half and lasts me for ~8 shaves, head and beard. I prefer them to be really sharp as when they start to lose its sharpness you tend to do some pressure with the razor and that's when most of the nicks and cuts happen.
- a_f 2y ago
  I found my leaf razor spring has started to become semi-slack, and failing to return as well to the original position. I suspect I will need to replace it soon (should be a waranty issue). Had it ~ 1 year. I found the shave is also not that close, and the larger head flat region means it is more difficult to get to spaces like under directly the nose. I like the design, but it is far from perfect
zamadatix 2y ago
The plastic part is a good point. Anyone have a recommendation for basically "the 52 pack of BIC single blade disposables with a quick pop in pop out handle"? Specifically I'd like one just as completely shitty in every way (i.e. plain, not contoured, single blade, no pivot, but a decent enough blade) minus I'm fine with the inconvenience of moving the handle to the next one (so as long as it's a quick pop).
proee 2y ago
Would it be possible to stack multiple double-edge blades into a shaver head, slightly offset to each other, to perform like a traditional multi-blade disposable razor? Or is the thinness of a disposable blade what makes it work well, assuming the blades can flex more to follow the skin profile? I could see a product where you install 3-4 double edge blades into a the shaver head, and then "flip" the head or blades once the first side runs dull.
- WithinReason 2y ago
  I saw one 20 seconds ago: https://leafshave.com/products/the-leaf-razor https://leafshave.com/products/the-leaf-razor
  - proee 2y ago
    Great find. It's a shame their blades are not double-sided though so you could get 2x more life out of them.
    - WithinReason 2y ago
      you could snap a regular blade in half I guess
      - proee 2y ago
        That is brilliant. Looks like the profile is the same!
gosub100 2y ago
> Televisions moving from being screens which accept input, to self contained 'smart' devices that require software updates and thus have a shortened useful lifespan. I just bought a 48" OLED smart TV and never connected it to the internet. It works fine as a monitor. I have another low budged smart TV in the bedroom that started life as a computer monitor and now is online as a TV. What's great about it is that it comes with IPTV - essentially cable TV that is free. Yeah there's commercials and a lot of the content is junk, but it augments YouTube and Emby nicely, (it's also Netflix capable). All this to say, I have yet to see TVs cross the line into being actively user-hostile. Even my old kindle fire TV (whatever it's called) will grudgingly connect to jellyfin without Internet (does require several extra navigation clicks though)
semiquaver 2y ago
Previously (960 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31294153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31294153
Marthinwurer 2y ago
After I decided to start shaving, I tried a few different razors. The benefit of the cartridge razor is that it requires less skill than the safety razor. The pivoting head puts it at the right angle every time. The downside, however, is the increased cost and packaging. There's also the problem that all the razor cartridges are proprietary and you need a new handle for each different blade set. I didn't like that,so I tried using the older safety razor that I had been using for trimming my neck when I had a beard. I ended up cutting myself a lot, especially around the chin. If that was what safety was, I'd shudder to see what I'd look like with a straight razor! I was still looking for something better, so after I had been brainwashed by YouTube sponsor segments for a few months, I finally caved and bought the Henson Razor in the hope its capabilities matched the advertisement. It's a finely machined safety razor, but the craftsmanship and tolerances aren't what separates it from the regular ones: it's the fact that they've designed it in a way that removes the skill requirements. The cutting angle is built in so you don't have to precisely control the pressure and angle of your cutting strokes. I was half expecting it to be a gimmick but I ended up falling in love with the design. I ended up buying a big sampler of razor blades and I've been enjoying trying all of them. Anyways, actually improving products are out there, you just have to look.
helf 2y ago
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JohnBooty 2y ago
Not sure how we can talk about cost efficiency without including electric razors. The shave isn't quite as close (so depending on your personal preference maybe they're not an option) but they beat everything else on convenience, safety, and waste. Long-term cost is more like $15-20 per year versus $10 per year for old-skool safety razors. But that's close enough to be irrelevant for most people I'd think.
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  I paid ~$30 for an electric razor two decades ago. I have to recharge it every 2 weeks. I'm guessing that makes the total cost heading to something like $1/year asymptotically.
- shade 2y ago
  Yup - I've done double-ended safety razors, I've tried the Gillette and Harry's disposable ones, but in 30+ years of shaving what I keep coming back to is Braun electric razors. So far, they're the only option I've found that doesn't leave me with razor burn. Currently using a ten-year-old Braun Series 7. I can get away with infrequent shaves (~3x a week) since my beard doesn't grow very quickly, so I replace the foil and cutter heads every 2-3 years. It's not as cheap as a double-ended, but for me, it's a better shave, worth the cost, and cheaper/less waste than disposables. If I upgrade anytime soon, it will probably be to something that's designed to be used in the shower - I do miss a nice shaving cream sometimes, and unless I have a bottle of 'Lectric Shave handy, I don't usually like to shave right after showering.
- MisterSandman 2y ago
  Electric Razors do not give a close shave at all, they're better than Electric trimmers, but definitely closer to trimmers than disposable or safety razors. That's also why they're more convenient and safer - because they don't really cut to the base of the hairs.
Teknomancer 2y ago
Straight Razor with Strope. Buy once and learn to use and to care for it properly and you will have a lifetime of the closest shaves you can get.
oysterville 2y ago
The plastic cartridges go out of alignment through blade nicks and that sort of thing before they get dull. Running them across old jeans in the opposite direction that they shave will fix it.
jsbisviewtiful 2y ago
PSA: Disposable razors are: bad for the environment, bad products, overpriced and very expensive over time. Additionally, pressurized foaming shaving cream, like Gillette, is garbage. I bought a $40 metal safety razor handle in 2014~ and then bought a box of 100 single blades for the handle for maybe $30 in 2019~. I am maybe around 1/3 of the way through those blades. At one point I did the math and those two options combined will save me thousands of dollars total. Bottles of real shaving cream work exponentially better than the pressurized foaming bottles and last much, much longer.
Euphorbium 2y ago
I have spent zero money on shaving since I baught an electric shaver years and years ago.
rref 2y ago
I bought a Merkur safety razor off eBay and a bulk pack of Derby blades like 6 years ago for about $40 and haven’t spent a dollar since (I suppose I bought shaving cream too, on occasion; $3 for a tube at the supermarket btw).
sys_64738 2y ago
I haven’t shaved with razor for 20 years and haven’t been to the barbers in just as long. I bought a battery powered shaver for 15 bucks and use it once a month to shear off beard and hair in ten minutes. Saves time and money.
difosfor 2y ago
I'm personally sticking to old Mach 3 blades as I can find them relatively cheap and they work perfectly; shaving easily and safely many times.
treebeard901 2y ago
As someone who grew up around hippies, the grunge era, punks, etc ... I find the general public has become very demanding about someone's general appearance to the point the can become subtly hostile towards you. Be clean shaven, have ironed clothes and clean shoes. If you carry a backpack it better look new and clean and you can't carry around a lot of stuff in it either. It's almost an authoritarian style of behavior. Its very much a subtle thing too. Pass someone while walking in a downtown area and they will make it known if you look poor. Keeping up appearances is expensive for sure.
- reverius42 2y ago
  I’m guessing you don’t live on the west coast USA or in a university town? My experiences in Tucson, AZ and Seattle, WA are very different —- to me it seems society has become more accepting, not less, of a disheveled appearance.
deleted 2y ago
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ratmeadow 2y ago
Astounding how many people here refute the premise of the article. For many of these products it seems uncontroversially true, you are indeed paying more and producing more waste (and sometimes receiving a crappier product) for a small convenience. The real point at hand is not the quality or necessity of the product, but the convenience. Fascinating how people will claim to have logical takes on finance and sustainability and the like, but then the moment you take away convenience, they're like "uhh uhm actually no please I really really need this product because... XYZ". People need to admit that they just like the convenience. You aren't a genius for trying to find some technicality why tea bags are more sustainable than tea leaves. Heck, you don't even need to drink tea in the first place. You just like the convenience and personal enjoyment.
h_tbob 2y ago
This is the problem with the human brain. When there are not enough real problems, it invents fake ones! “You didn’t shave!” What a stupid problem society invented. And the true cost isn’t the money, so much as collective man hours wasted. Down with razors! I just get a buzzer and trim facial hair every now and again. In the modern day women seem to have superiority socially. So I think men shave to subtly appear like women, and thus receive more social grace. This behavior is shown in the cuttlefish. The lesser males act like females around the alpha. Then when he’s not looking jump in and mate with the females.
rvieira 2y ago
I agree with most of the examples at the end of the post, except HelloFresh. I'm a huge fan of HelloFresh, and I think it solves an important problem which is one of waste. Before this service, I would buy odd quantities of ingredients (especially vegetables) that would invariable go bad and get chucked in the bin. The amount of lettuce, mushrooms, avocados, etc I threw away were obscene. With these kind of services I get a tailored amount of perishable ingredients to a specific recipe on a specific day and great deal of mental energy is saved by outsourcing meal planning to them. I don't think I've ever threw away a single food item since using them. IMO this well worth the extra money.
- Nextgrid 2y ago
  On the other hand, food itself is renewable. The energy embodied within it (expended in its supply chain) may not be, but neither is the energy consumed during deliveries. It may be that throwing away a few pieces of food obtained from a highly-optimized supply chain (such as a supermarket) is still better from an environment point of view than not throwing anything away but getting your food delivered.
1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago
"Shaving is too expensive and is a demonstrative example of how most consumer products are designed to extract more money from you rather than to improve your life, or the world, or to be in any way remotely good." Even Larry Ellison cannot afford it.

86 points by fanf2 2y ago

What he points out is true, but I could never get comfortable shaving with a double blade razor (constant razor burn) whereas the cartridge razors were much easier to use and get a comfortable shave. I wish there was a middle ground where you could have a durable multi-blade razor body and still replace individual blades instead of the whole head. Edit: Some of the other examples given are less strong (tea is still pennies a serving when buying in bag form). However electronic bike shifting systems always seem absurd to me. You mean I have to charge my bicycle!?

Levitating 2y ago
Maybe you need better shaving cream. I use some sort of slimy soap, works well.
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  I tried the whole "old school" stack: double edge razor, Wilkinson shaving soap, hog hair brush. Still got a more comfortable result with a cartridge + any kind of soap (even hand soap). It's probably a question of getting more skilled/practiced with it, but now I keep a beard so I shave quite rarely.
gvurrdon 2y ago
You beat me to it. I can never get a pleasant shave from a DE blade, even using high quality soap and a brush.
nayuki 2y ago
I largely agree with the article, but... > Well understood mechanical bike shifting transitions to electronic shifting which requires you to pay more and charge your pedal bike This has been on my mind lately. I own a bike with mechanical cable shifters and derailleurs. I've talked to friends who had to maintain these parts over the years, and even seen one maintenance session personally. Namely, you have to change the steel cable every so often because water and dirt enter through the ends and contaminate the cable. And after every few cable changes, you need to change the housing as well. Ask anyone who has ridden over 10 000 km, and they will tell you that they've changed the cable and/or housing during that operational period. Also, cables stretch and shift over time, and even without changing the cable or housing, you have to constantly re-tune the cable tension to ensure crisp shifting and not get stuck between gears - you probably have to do this every 1000 km. Electronic (wireless) shifters/derailleurs don't have this particular failure mode because there is no mechanical cable. Sure, the derailleur needs lubrication and occasional maintenance, and you need to charge/change the batteries, and of course you need to make sure you don't destroy any electrical cables. But I believe the maintenance of as electronic shifting system requires far less labor. Electronic shifting isn't just a cash-cow gimmick; it offers real advantages. Another point is that some cargo bikes with a long distance between the rider and the derailleur(s) use electronic shifting instead of running a long cable, which again reduces maintenance and failure modes.
sliken 2y ago
On road I don't see the point, any decent derailleur works well in all conditions you regularly experience. Generally rides (consciously or not) let up on the torque to improve shifting, not a big deal. However on a MTB it's more challenging, more forces (sideways, skidding, jumps, rock gardens, etc), larger temperature changes, more variable torque (large gear ranges and suspension travel induced torque), and more need for shifting under full torque. For example when climbing a steep technical climb strewn with rocks and roots. All cassettes in the last few decades have on/off ramps to help shifting, however it's pretty much the luck of the draw when you shift, doubly so when shifting multiple gears at once. SRAM has managed quite the evolution and got the bike industry on board. First they replaced the weakest part of the frame (I've personally lost a frame to this), the derailleur hanger. Now the derailleur is effectively attacked to the rear hub and is perfectly aligned, there's all kinds of silly demos showing them being hit by hammers or standing on them when the bike is on it's side. I saw a study showing that on 5 year old bikes something approximately 50% of bikes has a misaligned hanger, enough to make shifting worse. Now with that crazy big improvement in strength, durability, alignment, and best of all the bike industry now doesn't require a custom hanger for every bike with variable derailleur positioning, it can now just design in the bike axle. Now they have a electronic shifter that gets rid of temp variability, cable issues, and can tuck in to avoid hits. It also knows where the ramps are, so it can shift exactly when needed, which allows full torque shifting seemlessly. In fact people complain it doesn't work particularly well when on a bike stand, but does extremely well when actually ridden on the trail. Is it worth the cost, complexity, and charging once a month? That's up to the end user, but it is a pretty noticeable improvement. Some ebikes can supply the derailleur from the main battery. I'm pretty late to the game with most bike developments, but I'm considering this one, perfect shifting under load is pretty attractive. My current bike is pretty finicky shifting wise. I replace the cable, casing, and clean/lubricate my derailleur and it gets better, not great though or at least not for long.

harimau777 2y ago

I think that it's also important to consider that it's much easier to cut oneself when using a double edge razor. The multiple blades locked to a specific angle that makes a modern razor safer likely also contributes to its greater cost and plastic waste. I suspect that it's more also difficult to travel with exposed blades than with modern cartridges; both due to the ease of packing and due to security hassles. Personally I started shaving using an electric razor, switched to a double edged razor, and then eventually switched to a modern razor.

0x1ch 2y ago
I went from cheap disposables, to a safety razor, back to electric. Prefer the new electric razors, but nothing will beat the safety razor for a clean shave.
- buu700 2y ago
  I went from a cheap electric ages ago, to cartridge razors, to a DE safety razor, stuck with that for a decade, and finally landed back on electric. Modern electric razors give me the best shave I've ever gotten. The shave is as close as it needs to be for all practical purposes, but it's much gentler with essentially no risk of cuts, bumps, or irritation. I use a Braun Series 9 on my head and face (Panasonic Arc is supposedly great too) and a Philips OneBlade on my neck (the less close shave avoids causing bumps), in a hot shower with whatever oil I have on hand for pre-shave (MCT) and either Cremo, eos UltraProtect, or Amazon Basics shaving cream (these three all do about the same job, but I had to experiment with a bunch of others that were awful). The Braun 9 is a bit of an up front investment, but beyond that the ongoing costs are fairly low as long as you maintain it properly. Factoring in cleaning/lubrication supplies, replacement heads, and shaving cream, I'd ballpark it at around $10/mo.
Barrin92 2y ago
>The multiple blades locked to a specific angle that makes a modern razor safer So are the blades in double edged razors, which is why they're also called ... safety razors. The cap at the top and the bottom basically fix the blade at a particular angle, when you angle it wrong it just won't really cut. They were literally designed so people could shave at home instead of going to the barber.

deleted 2y ago

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gvurrdon 2y ago

Using the old style of double-edged razors would be great. But, I have never managed to use them successfully - there's always a degree of nicks and razor burn. Fans of this style of razor would claim that this will be poor technique and they may even be right, but not everyone can be good at it, apparently. If someone were to invent a razor which can use cheap double-edged blades and not be unpleasant to use I'd certainly buy it. BTW, the old Rolls Razor turns out to give a very good shave and a blade can last a lifetime. Its only disadvantage as far as I can tell is that it takes much longer to shave with (presumably not a problem for those who actually enjoy shaving).

_fat_santa 2y ago
You have to let your skin get used to it. When I first started I got tons of nicks and cuts and razor burn. Do it for a week or so and you'll get better and your skin will get used to it.
- gvurrdon 2y ago
  I've tried for weeks and it's never got any more pleasant.
  - LeSaucy 2y ago
    Lots of room for skin types to play here, I found that Astra blades were the least likely to nick and cause irritation. If I am in a rush I can even use them dry (with the grain only!).
    - itbeho 2y ago
      I love Astra blades. Smooth shave with my RazoRock Game Changer.
  - mr_mitm 2y ago
    Same for me. I tried different blades and everything. Sometimes I think it's all a huge conspiracy to trick me, almost like cast iron pan fanatics (always a mess for me).

BiteCode_dev 2y ago

- There are cheaper alternatives to both the razors the author is showing. - You don't need to shave every day, especially with 2024 social norms, you choose to. - Nobody forces you to use a disposable razor. You can use a straight razor. You can use an electric shaver. I use both. But it turns out disposable razors saves your from cuts and learning technics and people want that. - So you really pay £40/year (which is not huge) for the convenience of a disposable razor, and not even the cheap ones. And the fact you want to shave every day. That reads like an Ad, except I don't know what OP is selling.

fsckboy 2y ago
>You don't need to shave every day, especially with 2024 social norms, you choose to. different people have vastly different shaving needs, you can't put everybody in the same box like that. learn to be curious about other people's experiences, and their reasons, you can choose to too!
- deleted 2y ago
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- blueflow 2y ago
  Shaving is a hassle. If people insist that its part of their life, its their choice and thus largely their own responsibility.
  - organsnyder 2y ago
    Going against social norms often comes at a cost. Many people have enough other things going against them that they need to get whatever small advantages they can.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    Showering is also a hassle. How far do you want to take this logic?
    - 2y ago

paxys 2y ago

People are willing to pay money for convenience and safety. This isn't some grand conspiracy, but just how the world works.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
There is a reason they are writing a blogpost (affiliate links?) instead of creating a successful business that solves the supposed problem of shaving being too expensive.
- horsawlarway 2y ago
  Isn't that basically his point, though? I read this as a reflection on the fact that our current economic system incentivizes and promotes companies that refuse to make/sell low-margin goods. It rewards companies that instead make high-margin goods, even when those high-margin goods are genuinely worse for consumers in general. I read this as another poke at capitalism and how it utterly falls down in making efficient markets when there is information asymmetry. And it shows that information asymmetry is easy to artificially introduce, and it's beneficial to sellers (perhaps even required by sellers) to do so. --- Basically - successful safety razor companies exist, but you literally cannot buy their products in person. Stores don't want to sell them, and you won't see commercials for them either (low margin goods usually don't have the budget to spam you with marketing). So the consumer is mislead into purchasing a much more expensive option by default, outside of extensive personal research into what should be an easy choice. If you think Razors are the only place this is happening... I promise it's not. The issue isn't that you can't create a company that sells safety razors. It's that market incentives drive those companies out of sight of consumers by default. The end result is bad for the average consumer.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Where is the evidence? Retail business earn minuscule profit margins (this is public info via SEC filings). Walmart famously demands its suppliers to sell to it at near breakeven price, and Walmart’s vendors complain that Walmart pushes them to the brink. The much simpler and likelier explanation is that the demand for safety razors does not justify the shelf space. And it’s 2024, information is everywhere. If people wanted safety razors, they would get them.

blueridge 2y ago

I'd recommend: https://leafshave.com/pages/face-shaving-with-leaf https://leafshave.com/pages/face-shaving-with-leaf

InvaderFizz 2y ago
I have the Twig and the triple blade. The twig is definitely my preferred. The triple blade is fine for shaving large areas, but any detail work and it's useless. The twig does need to be cleaned very often, but it's not a big deal and it is better than any DE I have used in the past. Much less irritation and nicks than my DEs in the past.

liveoneggs 2y ago

Now do an electric razor?

fsckboy 2y ago

Brush Plus from Gillette was an incredible product (it's shaving cream in a tube dispenser with a application brush, all-in-one): perfect combination of clings to your face, softens hair, and smooth slick glide. I once met the former product manager for it at a cocktail party and said I loved it, he said "you were the only one." https://www.youtube.com/embed/ByAAI0umHHo https://www.youtube.com/embed/ByAAI0umHHo also, on the subject, you all owe it to yourselves to get a few styptic pencils, they are dirt cheap, and stop bleeding from nicks (or pimples) really fast, at the cost of some sting, but even that is bracing. that which does not kill you makes you stronger

loloquwowndueo 2y ago

“The double edged razor has become a product that you can only buy on the internet, and which you will only buy if you know that it exists.” The first seems like a non-problem - I already buy everything but groceries on the Internet. The second is a publicity issue, if safety razor companies really wanted to, they could advertise the shit out of their products and “cheaper and generates less waste” is going to be a huge selling point tbh. I only use a disposable razor when travelling (hard to get razor blades through airports security!) and at home I alternate between safety razor and electric razor depending on how much time I have. My first electric razor lasted 20 years, so that’s also a much better investment than tons of stupid expensive Gillette razors/cartridges.

_fat_santa 2y ago

IMO I think that safety razors are superior to the modern cartridge razors in every single way. They are way cheaper and I found that once you learn how to use it properly, it will give you a closer shave than a cartridge razor.

Bjartr 2y ago

I've been happily using a double-edge razor since college (am now 35) I bought a box of blades about six years ago for $20, I'm just now down to the last few blades and will have to reorder soon.

sixdonuts 2y ago

Shaving is not expensive if you simply clean the blade after using it. Cleaning the blades slows the oxidation process on the edge which is the primary contributor to poor blade performance.

fsckboy 2y ago
I once friend-of-a-friend met somebody, a materials science grad student who had "invented/applied" a high tech alloy to the edge that allowed for blades to last at least 10x. But instead of for shaving, the big money was in blades sold to flooring carpet cutters, they use a new blade for every cut. His selling proposition was (conservative) 5x which would really increase productivity/save labor. Problem is, his market was too scared to try it, at the risk of messing up an expensive piece of carpet which had been ordered in fixed quantity, they'd rather just put in a new blade, the cost wasn't an issue.

codingwagie 2y ago

I just reuse the same razor for months on end, sometimes six months. It gets dull, which is actually great. I get far more face cuts from a sharp razor. The dull ones I find are highly effective. I always use premium razors. I dont use shaving cream either, just some bar soap when I am in the shower. The hot shower seems to make my skin easier to shave. Shaving with dry skin (with shaving cream) in front of a mirror is a nightmare, and has resulted in far more cuts for me

drawkward 2y ago
This whole post is a nightmare! Ouch! ;)
- codingwagie 2y ago
  to each his own
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  I shave with only water and a philips oneblade (because I also trim). I used to just use whatever schick quattro or Gillette equivalent was cheapest when I kept a clean shave. And I can use the same blade for at least a year, maybe even 2.
mint2 2y ago
But why would one ever shave with dry skin in front of a mirror? Walking barefoot on burning hot asphalt is also a nightmare and coincidentally also not how it’s meant to be done.
- codingwagie 2y ago
  I meant dry skin with shaving cream on it. It hurts more than just wet skin in a hot shower
saratogacx 2y ago
I'm similar. Shave in the shower with a 2 blade cartridge for 2-4 months. Thumb off the blade after use to clean and put it away until next time. No soap, no cream, no oil; just water, skin, and blade. I don't get cuts or bumps and have been using this arrangement for 10+ years.

dailykoder 2y ago

>Well understood mechanical bike shifting transitions to electronic shifting which requires you to pay more and charge your pedal bike (Not sure about this example, as in theory a bike derailleur needs not be a repeated purchased) Electronic shifters just work tremendously better. I still don't use them. Edit: No, you usually don't need to change the derailleur. Just chain and sprockets

astura 2y ago

Comeon, dude. People buy disposable cartridges because they are convenient and much easier to use than a straight razor or safety razor. It's not a fucking conspiracy. Same with tea bags (and I mostly drink loose leaf myself).

mint2 2y ago
Not the whole picture - razor burn caused by too close a shave is a lot easier to happen when there’s 3-5 blades
- helf 2y ago
  I cant use disposable multi-blade razors for this exact reason.

drawkward 2y ago

I love my double edged razor. My two teenage sons, who are just beginning their shaving journey each have their own, and don't seem to have issues with razor burn and nicks. Maybe the "safety" features of disposable razors just let you be a lazy shaver, akin to the way "safety" features in cars can let you be a more distracted or lazy driver?

dyauspitr 2y ago
Pretty much. Five blades means I can shave much, much faster while not really paying attention to what I’m doing.
nickthegreek 2y ago
I love mine as well. It’s a 1968 Gillette N1 which was my father’s. I’ve tried “fancier” DE razor bodies and I hate them. This article just me realize how much I depend on this specific razor. I’ve managed to find 3 for sale online and scooped up a backup to secure my future.

gusbremm 2y ago

One can make it even cheaper sharpening used double razors. There used to be devices just for that.

Fraterkes 2y ago

A while ago I watched the tv adaptation of "the underground railroad" and theres a scene where one of the main characters uses a kind of hair-removing or growth-inhibiting cream to "shave" without using a razor. Anyone know if that's a real thing?

r2_pilot 2y ago
Nair exists as a product (basically potassium thioglycolate and calcium hydroxide).
drawkward 2y ago
https://www.naircare.com https://www.naircare.com
astura 2y ago
Yes, Nair - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nair_(hair_removal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nair_(hair_removal) I've used it (on my legs, I'm a lady). It's expensive if you use it regularly and shaving is easier cuz you have to let the Nair sit on your skin for several minutes IIRC (it was 25 yrs ago).
mikestew 2y ago
I’m not familiar with the TV you are referring to, but there are certainly creams as you describe: https://www.naircare.com/en/products/bladeless-shave-lavender https://www.naircare.com/en/products/bladeless-shave-lavende... I wouldn’t use it on my face, but it worked fine on my legs back when I was racing bicycles.

jmcphers 2y ago

I switched from cartridges to DE razors a couple of years ago for many of the reasons listed in the article. The article unfairly doesn't list many of the advantages of cartridges, which drove adoption of them over the dominant DE razors of yesteryear. Cartridge shaving is just easier, faster, and more convenient. Multiple blades and pivoting heads let you absentmindedly drag the razor over your face and get a very good shave. It takes me probably 25 - 50% longer to shave with a DE blade because I need to make more passes and shave more carefully to avoid cuts. Even so, I cut myself more often than I do with a cartridge. I do it anyway, though, because it's just more mindful and engaging than a cartridge razor, and cheaper. The spent blades can even be recycled in the right container. Plus, shaving with hot water causes the metal body of the razor head to heat up, so you can get a hot shave, too. Try that with your plastic handle!

riedel 2y ago
In my student days I at some point decided to go from a double sided razor to using a belt for sharpening a traditionam razor. Didn't last long because this actually is labour intensive in maintenance and shaving. For years I used to break a DE blade in half's and use it in a fake traditional razor. Now I am using the double blade again and actual find it really easy and fast. I am always annoyed from cartridges as longer hair (I wear a beard) gets stuck and the double sided razor is much easier to clean.

teaearlgraycold 2y ago

I recently switched to a double edged safety razor. It took a week to learn how to use it properly, but I now don’t cut myself anymore than I would with a cartridge razor. The shave is better and the cost is lower. I had wondered if all of the hype and YouTube ads were trying to trick me. But no, it’s great! Just don’t buy one of those overpriced handles people are trying to sell to you.

samgranieri 2y ago

I don't shave everyday because I get better shaves if I do it like twice a week. I don't mind using a Gillette five blade razor and change out the blade like every other month

lgsilver 2y ago

If you’re supposed to replace modern cartridges every 3-5 shaves, I’ve been doing it wrong. The steel blades in a cartridge easily stay sharp through dozens of shaves. The reason people replace cartridges is because they get clogged with soap and hair. If you rinse them every time, they last significantly longer than single blades.

725686 2y ago
Exactly my thoughts. 3-5 shaves? I use them for tens of shaves. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I'm glad I do.
astura 2y ago
I don't shave my face, cuz I'm a lady. I do shave my pubes and armpits regularly. I replace the cartridge on my razor like twice a year.
afpx 2y ago
I've been using the same mach 3 for the last 5-6 years, I think.

CydeWeys 2y ago

I kind of blame consumers for some of this stuff? Good options are still out there. Now, admittedly, I do have a full beard, so I only shave my upper cheeks and lower neck, but I've been making do with a Merkur long-handle double-sided safety razor (the model 23C) for about a decade and a half now, and those blades feel like they last forever. Plus, I bought 100 of the blades for like $10 on Amazon a decade ago, and still have the vast majority of them left. I think this supply might outlive me! So, yeah, good options are available out there for lots of things, it's just the consumers aren't picking them (or don't do research and thus aren't aware of their existence). And the manufacturers and retailers are understandably interested in pushing the products that make the highest profits for them, just like the consumer should have an interest in getting the best deal for themselves. But I don't know what the alternative would be.

cortesoft 2y ago

> Subscription services like Hello Fresh, where you can pay well over the odds to have some vegetables delivered to you. Isn’t this just paying extra to save the time of having to go to the shop? Whether that is worth it or not is going to vary by individual, but I don’t think people are stupid or being taken advantage of if they want to pay someone to save themselves time and effort… that is the foundation of a society.

deleted 2y ago

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M95D 2y ago

Start hoarding razor blades in preparation for 1984. :)

lbotos 2y ago

I went down the rabbit hole of trying alt razors: 1. Modern disposable multi-blade razors are actually really good. They are very efficient. 2. Safety razors take more time and attention, which could be a pro. 3. I settled on https://proofrazor.com/products/proof-single-blade https://proofrazor.com/products/proof-single-blade which is decent and very easy to adapt to if you are used to a regular razor, but definitely less efficient than the Gillette I was using prior. Less plastic was my goal, and my hair grows slow enough that I am not too bothered.

Marthinwurer 2y ago
Thanks for the recommendation, I like how they're adapting the pivoting head from the cartridge razors to the ecosystem of the safety razor. I've been using the Henson Razor, which tackles the safety razor skill issue by fixing the angle of the blade when it cuts. I've been pretty happy with it, but now you're making me want to try the one you've shared.
fsckboy 2y ago
>Modern disposable multi-blade razors are actually really good... ...multi is really good across your cheek, but getting into the "corner" between upper lip and nose? duals were ok, but better have a standby single blade at the ready.

maeil 2y ago

> Nespresso machines, and other coffee pod brands, replace many styles of coffee brewing. Provide much worse coffee, at a higher price but are superficially convenient. I dont think John quite realizes the quality of the coffee at the average office before such machines were a thing. It was much worse than capsule espresso, and I dislike Nestle as much as anyone else. The same for most people at home, really. And those who already made better coffee have kept doing so anyway. No, while capsule coffee is absurdly wasteful and there's plenty to criticize about it, the one positive thing is that it produces better coffee than what used to be the average.

exitb 2y ago
There are office-grade coffee machines that make espresso-based drinks with a single button press and work with beans. They’re not as good as a real machines with non-pressurized baskets, but not worse than the pods.
- maeil 2y ago
  And those might be the common in SV tech companies, but not as much in the other 99% of the world (and even less so at the time that capsule coffee became popular). They do seem to be popular in places like coworking spaces and other shared facilities. But then they seem to buy the absolute cheapest bottom barrel beans, probably rarely clean the machines and so on, meaning it still just ends up worse than capsule coffee, or similar at best.
compiler-guy 2y ago
It's not "superficially" more convenient either. It is vastly more convenient and less messy. That does provide some value. It's an environmental disaster, and I never use Nespresso for that reason, but one ought to at least engage with the true reasons people use it.

deleted 2y ago

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Gualdrapo 2y ago

Been shaving my bald head for more than 10 years and went through disposable razors, cheap double edge razors, a shavette, an electric razor... Disposable razors will clog with just one shave, and they're difficult to wash and clean and they left me with irritation. Not even getting started about reusing them. They're the most expensive solution. A cheap double edge razor will give you cheap results. The ones I got here (for what would be about US$1.5) had slightly skewed corners, so you had to be really careful and moving your hands as straight as possible. And its grip is non existant when your hands are wet, so when you're shaving the back of your head it can be a bit dangerous as the shave handle can slip or spin and nick you. They corrode rather quickly and if yours falls to the ground, that's it. With a shavette, or a straight razor, you have to be even more careful - the blade is more exposed. I used to grab it near to the blade so I could have more certainty about the angle of it. I find it gave me a bit more irritation that the DE Razor and it's really difficult to near impossible to use it around and behind my ears. Though nobody beats it when shaving long hair - it can't clog. At last I could afford a Leaf razor - it's just absolutely great in almost every sense and though it's not cheap it was worth every penny - sans the clogging thing, but you can clean it almost as easily as a DE razor. Oh and maybe I wish the spring that moves its head to its original position was a bit more strong. Never have had a cut or nick with it and it gives the cleanest shave I've ever had. Got one for my father (he's going to be 88 - and he still has his head full of hair! I just didn't had luck with the genetic lottery) and he likes it too. I don't use special soaps for shaving nor oils or anything, just regular soap or thick shampoo and water (mostly because third world issues). Blades here can cost around US$0.35 per box (that little box that has 5 blades) so they're relatively cheap. With the Leaf razor I use the three spots so it's a blade and a half and lasts me for ~8 shaves, head and beard. I prefer them to be really sharp as when they start to lose its sharpness you tend to do some pressure with the razor and that's when most of the nicks and cuts happen.

a_f 2y ago
I found my leaf razor spring has started to become semi-slack, and failing to return as well to the original position. I suspect I will need to replace it soon (should be a waranty issue). Had it ~ 1 year. I found the shave is also not that close, and the larger head flat region means it is more difficult to get to spaces like under directly the nose. I like the design, but it is far from perfect

zamadatix 2y ago

The plastic part is a good point. Anyone have a recommendation for basically "the 52 pack of BIC single blade disposables with a quick pop in pop out handle"? Specifically I'd like one just as completely shitty in every way (i.e. plain, not contoured, single blade, no pivot, but a decent enough blade) minus I'm fine with the inconvenience of moving the handle to the next one (so as long as it's a quick pop).

proee 2y ago

Would it be possible to stack multiple double-edge blades into a shaver head, slightly offset to each other, to perform like a traditional multi-blade disposable razor? Or is the thinness of a disposable blade what makes it work well, assuming the blades can flex more to follow the skin profile? I could see a product where you install 3-4 double edge blades into a the shaver head, and then "flip" the head or blades once the first side runs dull.

WithinReason 2y ago
I saw one 20 seconds ago: https://leafshave.com/products/the-leaf-razor https://leafshave.com/products/the-leaf-razor
- proee 2y ago
  Great find. It's a shame their blades are not double-sided though so you could get 2x more life out of them.
  - WithinReason 2y ago
    you could snap a regular blade in half I guess
    - proee 2y ago
      That is brilliant. Looks like the profile is the same!

gosub100 2y ago

> Televisions moving from being screens which accept input, to self contained 'smart' devices that require software updates and thus have a shortened useful lifespan. I just bought a 48" OLED smart TV and never connected it to the internet. It works fine as a monitor. I have another low budged smart TV in the bedroom that started life as a computer monitor and now is online as a TV. What's great about it is that it comes with IPTV - essentially cable TV that is free. Yeah there's commercials and a lot of the content is junk, but it augments YouTube and Emby nicely, (it's also Netflix capable). All this to say, I have yet to see TVs cross the line into being actively user-hostile. Even my old kindle fire TV (whatever it's called) will grudgingly connect to jellyfin without Internet (does require several extra navigation clicks though)

semiquaver 2y ago

Previously (960 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31294153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31294153

Marthinwurer 2y ago

After I decided to start shaving, I tried a few different razors. The benefit of the cartridge razor is that it requires less skill than the safety razor. The pivoting head puts it at the right angle every time. The downside, however, is the increased cost and packaging. There's also the problem that all the razor cartridges are proprietary and you need a new handle for each different blade set. I didn't like that,so I tried using the older safety razor that I had been using for trimming my neck when I had a beard. I ended up cutting myself a lot, especially around the chin. If that was what safety was, I'd shudder to see what I'd look like with a straight razor! I was still looking for something better, so after I had been brainwashed by YouTube sponsor segments for a few months, I finally caved and bought the Henson Razor in the hope its capabilities matched the advertisement. It's a finely machined safety razor, but the craftsmanship and tolerances aren't what separates it from the regular ones: it's the fact that they've designed it in a way that removes the skill requirements. The cutting angle is built in so you don't have to precisely control the pressure and angle of your cutting strokes. I was half expecting it to be a gimmick but I ended up falling in love with the design. I ended up buying a big sampler of razor blades and I've been enjoying trying all of them. Anyways, actually improving products are out there, you just have to look.

helf 2y ago

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JohnBooty 2y ago

Not sure how we can talk about cost efficiency without including electric razors. The shave isn't quite as close (so depending on your personal preference maybe they're not an option) but they beat everything else on convenience, safety, and waste. Long-term cost is more like $15-20 per year versus $10 per year for old-skool safety razors. But that's close enough to be irrelevant for most people I'd think.

readthenotes1 2y ago
I paid ~$30 for an electric razor two decades ago. I have to recharge it every 2 weeks. I'm guessing that makes the total cost heading to something like $1/year asymptotically.
shade 2y ago
Yup - I've done double-ended safety razors, I've tried the Gillette and Harry's disposable ones, but in 30+ years of shaving what I keep coming back to is Braun electric razors. So far, they're the only option I've found that doesn't leave me with razor burn. Currently using a ten-year-old Braun Series 7. I can get away with infrequent shaves (~3x a week) since my beard doesn't grow very quickly, so I replace the foil and cutter heads every 2-3 years. It's not as cheap as a double-ended, but for me, it's a better shave, worth the cost, and cheaper/less waste than disposables. If I upgrade anytime soon, it will probably be to something that's designed to be used in the shower - I do miss a nice shaving cream sometimes, and unless I have a bottle of 'Lectric Shave handy, I don't usually like to shave right after showering.
MisterSandman 2y ago
Electric Razors do not give a close shave at all, they're better than Electric trimmers, but definitely closer to trimmers than disposable or safety razors. That's also why they're more convenient and safer - because they don't really cut to the base of the hairs.

Teknomancer 2y ago

Straight Razor with Strope. Buy once and learn to use and to care for it properly and you will have a lifetime of the closest shaves you can get.

oysterville 2y ago

The plastic cartridges go out of alignment through blade nicks and that sort of thing before they get dull. Running them across old jeans in the opposite direction that they shave will fix it.

jsbisviewtiful 2y ago

PSA: Disposable razors are: bad for the environment, bad products, overpriced and very expensive over time. Additionally, pressurized foaming shaving cream, like Gillette, is garbage. I bought a $40 metal safety razor handle in 2014~ and then bought a box of 100 single blades for the handle for maybe $30 in 2019~. I am maybe around 1/3 of the way through those blades. At one point I did the math and those two options combined will save me thousands of dollars total. Bottles of real shaving cream work exponentially better than the pressurized foaming bottles and last much, much longer.

Euphorbium 2y ago

I have spent zero money on shaving since I baught an electric shaver years and years ago.

rref 2y ago

I bought a Merkur safety razor off eBay and a bulk pack of Derby blades like 6 years ago for about $40 and haven’t spent a dollar since (I suppose I bought shaving cream too, on occasion; $3 for a tube at the supermarket btw).

sys_64738 2y ago

I haven’t shaved with razor for 20 years and haven’t been to the barbers in just as long. I bought a battery powered shaver for 15 bucks and use it once a month to shear off beard and hair in ten minutes. Saves time and money.

difosfor 2y ago

I'm personally sticking to old Mach 3 blades as I can find them relatively cheap and they work perfectly; shaving easily and safely many times.

treebeard901 2y ago

As someone who grew up around hippies, the grunge era, punks, etc ... I find the general public has become very demanding about someone's general appearance to the point the can become subtly hostile towards you. Be clean shaven, have ironed clothes and clean shoes. If you carry a backpack it better look new and clean and you can't carry around a lot of stuff in it either. It's almost an authoritarian style of behavior. Its very much a subtle thing too. Pass someone while walking in a downtown area and they will make it known if you look poor. Keeping up appearances is expensive for sure.

reverius42 2y ago
I’m guessing you don’t live on the west coast USA or in a university town? My experiences in Tucson, AZ and Seattle, WA are very different —- to me it seems society has become more accepting, not less, of a disheveled appearance.

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ratmeadow 2y ago

Astounding how many people here refute the premise of the article. For many of these products it seems uncontroversially true, you are indeed paying more and producing more waste (and sometimes receiving a crappier product) for a small convenience. The real point at hand is not the quality or necessity of the product, but the convenience. Fascinating how people will claim to have logical takes on finance and sustainability and the like, but then the moment you take away convenience, they're like "uhh uhm actually no please I really really need this product because... XYZ". People need to admit that they just like the convenience. You aren't a genius for trying to find some technicality why tea bags are more sustainable than tea leaves. Heck, you don't even need to drink tea in the first place. You just like the convenience and personal enjoyment.

h_tbob 2y ago

This is the problem with the human brain. When there are not enough real problems, it invents fake ones! “You didn’t shave!” What a stupid problem society invented. And the true cost isn’t the money, so much as collective man hours wasted. Down with razors! I just get a buzzer and trim facial hair every now and again. In the modern day women seem to have superiority socially. So I think men shave to subtly appear like women, and thus receive more social grace. This behavior is shown in the cuttlefish. The lesser males act like females around the alpha. Then when he’s not looking jump in and mate with the females.

rvieira 2y ago

I agree with most of the examples at the end of the post, except HelloFresh. I'm a huge fan of HelloFresh, and I think it solves an important problem which is one of waste. Before this service, I would buy odd quantities of ingredients (especially vegetables) that would invariable go bad and get chucked in the bin. The amount of lettuce, mushrooms, avocados, etc I threw away were obscene. With these kind of services I get a tailored amount of perishable ingredients to a specific recipe on a specific day and great deal of mental energy is saved by outsourcing meal planning to them. I don't think I've ever threw away a single food item since using them. IMO this well worth the extra money.

Nextgrid 2y ago
On the other hand, food itself is renewable. The energy embodied within it (expended in its supply chain) may not be, but neither is the energy consumed during deliveries. It may be that throwing away a few pieces of food obtained from a highly-optimized supply chain (such as a supermarket) is still better from an environment point of view than not throwing anything away but getting your food delivered.

1vuio0pswjnm7 2y ago

"Shaving is too expensive and is a demonstrative example of how most consumer products are designed to extract more money from you rather than to improve your life, or the world, or to be in any way remotely good." Even Larry Ellison cannot afford it.