7 ms·

Here it is how it looks like if you try to visit an account of a cult member and political rival of Erdogan from Turkey(the cult used to be ally of Erdogan, the

by mrtksn 2y ago

Here it is how it looks like if you try to visit an account of a cult member and political rival of Erdogan from Turkey(the cult used to be ally of Erdogan, then turned against him. Now they publish sometimes credible and other times dubious corruption documents and allegations from exile): https://dropover.cloud/755d93 https://dropover.cloud/755d93 Also, Twitter has legal representation in Turkey and people are routinely detained, imprisoned or made pay fines for their tweets in Turkey. The country also ranked very poorly on any freedom or democracy index, political figures are routinely held in prison. Erdogan government often dismisses orders from the Turkish constitution court, if you think that Musk is into constitution - it doesn’t add up. AFAIK Twitter is also blocked in China and Russia. What is the fuss around Brazil? Why this is not just another day with business as usual?

soapdog 2y ago
Twitter is not complying with Brazilian law, it is simple.
- brigadier132 2y ago
  It's not complying with Brazilian law or is it not complying with the orders of a judge overstepping his powers granted by the Brazilian constitution?
  - kranke155 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - brigadier132 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - kranke155 2y ago
        Asking for sources is a way to derail the conversation? Incredible. https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/c0l82k39x28o https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/c0l82k39x28o Here is the BBC Brasil article on the topic. The ban has been upheld by the entire court, not just its more activist judges. A. The law in Brazil says any company needs a legal representative in the country. X does not. B. Under hate speech and misinformation laws some accounts were asked to be removed. They did not. C. Because the company wasn’t replying at all to court requests, they consider that obstruction of justice vs trying to appeal the court D. As far as Starlink they consider it a “de facto economic group under the control of Elon Musk” which is mostly true. Now as far as the Constitution, this is the Supreme court. So saying X has the right to judge the Supreme Court to be in breach of the Constitution, when they themselves are meant to make those decisions, is pretty nutty to me. It's like saying I don't agree with the abortion ban in Texas/Florida so I will continue to do them, since I don't accept Roe V Wave was overturned by Dobbs, so I will just do my own thing, keep doing abortions and f the court. That's a good way to get yourself arrested, which is what happened here. Instead you should look into why do you think this to be the truth?
        brigadier132 2y ago
        [flagged]
        kranke155 2y ago
        I no longer believe you are performing this conversation in good faith, so I retire from it.
        brigadier132 2y ago
        > I no longer believe you are performing this conversation in good faith, No, you misunderstand what the conversation we just had was. I was showing everyone else here that you are not arguing in good faith.
        kranke155 2y ago
  - defrost 2y ago
    The "rogue Supreme Court Justice" line doesn't fly now that the entire Brazilian Supreme Court have unanimously backed the ban.
    - Fidelix 2y ago
      Why do you have to intentionally misrepresent things (lie)? Flávio Dino (Appointed by Lula) Cármen Lúcia (Appointed by Lula) Cristiano Zanin (Appointed by Lula) Luiz Fux (Appointed by Lula) These are the only ones that voted.
      - kranke155 2y ago
        So who appointed them means I get to ignore them? So I could start doing abortions in Florida up to birth tomorrow, because I don't agree about the decision of the Trump SCOTUS?
        EugeneOZ 2y ago
        Appointed - has influence, it is too simple to pretend that you don't understand it. And no need for allegory - it is just an attempt to deceive your opponent.
        ricardorivaldo 2y ago
        thats the system, like in USA, the elected presidente chose the supreme court judges, and the judge in question was appointed by a right wing president in 2017 when current one is a left wing from a diferent party. so, yes, influence, but in this situation twitter is acting as a rogue company and refuses to comply with the law, it can fight in the court it they do not agree, but as in most countries, is not up to the criminal to decide what is legal and what is not, for that most countries have a due legal process, as is the case for everything that is happening
        EugeneOZ 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - ricardorivaldo 2y ago
    twitter is not complying with brazilian law, as stated in the constitution, and within brazilian legal framework, the supreme court has the legal atribution of defining what is legal or not, juditiary branch of government is separeted from executive and the judge in question was appointed by a right wing president in 2016 , current one is left wing, so everything acording to the law, telegram had this issue in 2020, they comply and now they can operate, as will twitter after comply with a simple court order, wich is required to have a legal representative in brazil, there is no question if it can or cannot operate, it can, just need to have someone to be responsable for the company and comply with the law
- diggan 2y ago
  As I understand it, X is avoiding to pay fines in Brazil, so in retaliation, Brazil ordered X to be blocked in Brazil if they don't respond. Starlink refused to follow along with the X block, so fines have been imposed at Starlink as well, for not following court order. I'm guessing the fines would accumulate daily, so now Starlink is adhering to the block. Add in a bit of personality dramas, corruption and typical billionaire and politician bullshit and you have the full picture.
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    Where would the corruption be? Did Musk offer to pay someone for the fines to go away?
deburo 2y ago
Brazil is being overtaken by politicians who think they are above Brazil's constitution, which is quite catastrophic since Brazil seemed to be a good (?) republic.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- mrtksn 2y ago
  And how is this different from Turkey? The Turkish constitution court decisions are often not upheld, there are people in prison who are in prison despite the court ruling.
- kranke155 2y ago
  You're wrong. I'm Brazilian and this is nothing new. Brazil has always been intense in political lawfare. Elon just thinks he can make Brazil into an example, while he knows he would get blocked in Turkey in 2 seconds.
  - deburo 2y ago
    It's not just Elon. Michael Shellenberger & TheFP for example has been reporting on this as well. You might not be impressed by the censorship happening in your country, but it's certainly worrying. I wouldn't know what to think if Canada banned Twitter. See here: https://www.thefp.com/p/matt-taibbi-on-the-global-censorship-af7 https://www.thefp.com/p/matt-taibbi-on-the-global-censorship...
    - kranke155 2y ago
      While I don't agree with Brazil doing exactly what it's doing, Elon is on the wrong on this one. The law is the law. The Supreme Court has voted unanimously. If he doesn't want to offer service there due to his morals, that's up to him. Let's be honest, the Steve Bannon connection to Brazil is probably a factor here.
      - 2y ago
2malaq 2y ago
I guess the fuss is about Bolsonaro being depicted as a dictator in the media and as soon as Lula da Silva takes over, authoritarian measures such as these are pushed forward?
- CuriouslyC 2y ago
  Lots of people who were generally against war and violence went to war to fight Hitler voluntarily.
- smith7018 2y ago
  This was decided by a Brazilian Supreme Federal Court justice, not Lula da Silva. In fact, the justice was appointed in 2017. Also, the court upheld his decision 2 days ago. Your comment is disingenuous and making this a liberal vs conservative issue when it's actually about X not respecting Brazilian law.
  - 2malaq 2y ago
    Easy now. I'm only speculating on optics here.
api 2y ago
[flagged]
- pessimizer 2y ago
  > Not sure if it’s still true but for a while you could get instantly banned for saying “cisgender.” Free speech absolutism! This was never true, and you could have easily checked before posting this. People who are really concerned about misinformation seem to spread it around casually about their enemies.
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    It's marked as a slur and falls under their hateful conduct policy. >Elon Musk has deemed the words “cis” and “cisgender” slurs on Twitter and warned that anyone who harasses others on Twitter will receive at least temporary suspension. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2023/07/02/elon-musk-deems-cis-a-twitter-slurheres-why-its-is-so-polarizing/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2023/07/02/elon-mus... https://www.fastcompany.com/91126082/elon-musk-x-cisgender-cis-slur https://www.fastcompany.com/91126082/elon-musk-x-cisgender-c... https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/x-cisgender-slur-cis-elon-musk-b2545355.html https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/x-cisgender-slur-cis-elon...
    - andsoitis 2y ago
      > and warned that anyone who harasses others on Twitter will receive at least temporary suspension. That is quite different from claiming that if you say “cisgender” you get banned…
      - ziddoap 2y ago
        I didn't say that you get banned. Just clarifying the truth of the matter is between what the two posters above me said.
  - MSFT_Edging 2y ago
    While not banned, any tweet with "cis" was labeled as harmful content and immediately hidden. Some people did receive bans iirc. You could type "cis" under actual violent white supremacist posts and your comment would be labeled harmful. Twitter is not a bastion if free speech. It's a Nazi bar where a certain type ideologically violent free speech is encouraged.
Fidelix 2y ago
It's pretty simple. Twitter is following the law in all cases. In Brazil's case, the orders are illegal and in some cases contradict the law of other countries. This was all explained pretty well by X Global Affairs: https://x.com/GlobalAffairs https://x.com/GlobalAffairs
- kranke155 2y ago
  You really trust X Global Affairs over an entire government, with no research?
  - Gud 2y ago
    "entire government"? really?
    - kranke155 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - brigadier132 2y ago
    Yes, but with research
  - goodluckchuck 2y ago
    Governments tend to be corrupt by their very nature.
    - kranke155 2y ago
      Corporations and billionaires however...
      - brigadier132 2y ago
        Talk to me when a corporation can be blamed for millions of human deaths.
input_sh 2y ago
The key difference is that Brazil is going after right-wingers. Not your average right-winger mind you, those seven accounts were closely related to the Brazilian version of Jan 6th: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Brazilian_Congress_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Brazilian_Congress_attack Since right-wingers are pretty much the core audience of Twitter nowadays, they complained, it reached Musk, he decided to take a bold stance, he lost the entire market. Simple as that.
- kranke155 2y ago
  The Steve Bannon connection. I always wondered how close Musk is to the Bannon-Mercer complex or influenced by it.
  - input_sh 2y ago
    I see no need to turn conspiratorial, he's just gullible and easily persuaded by whoever's the loudest in his replies. If by some miracle leftists started agreeing with him, glazing him up every time he tweets something stupid, calling him the world's only good billionaire or something, I'm sure he'd switch sides.
- bamboozled 2y ago
  Platforms like Twitter are backdoors into our society, it's that simple. When in history did we have so much mass scale insanity and hysteria going on before social media? I know 100% crap things happened before social media, but the scale of the nonsense is for sure unprecedented.
- ricardorivaldo 2y ago
  not only after right-wingers, is the usual nazi, pedo violence too, but the ones who make noise are the usual far right , since no pedo goes on public to ask to have rights
thinkingtoilet 2y ago
[flagged]
- goodluckchuck 2y ago
  How do you get to authoritarian, when it’s the Brazilian authorities demanding that people be silenced? Perhaps you’re referring to some unrelated situation where X has been censoring people?
  - kranke155 2y ago
    "people be silenced" it's like 7 accounts.
    - goodluckchuck 2y ago
      That may make the Brazilian government less authoritarian, but that doesn’t make anyone else more authoritarian. If anything, the fact that Musk is opposing even a very small act of authoritarianism would suggest that he is very strongly against authoritarianism.
      - kranke155 2y ago
        Why does he allow this to happen in Turkey however? Could it be because Steve Bannon is a personal friend of the Bolsonaro family?
        Pedro_Ribeiro 2y ago
        In Turkey this wouldn't fly for even a second. He thinks he can make an example out of Brazil (and it's clearly striking a nerve even if it ends up not working out.)
    - amlib 2y ago
      Also, those accounts were used by people who were investigated by the equivalent of the FBI, the Policia Federal (PF). The initial request to block those accounts AFAIK came from them, and the fact that this case ended up in the hands of the Supreme Court is because Elon decided to play chicken, escalating the situation in every possible way for seemingly no good reason.
lolinder 2y ago
Speaking as an American who probably has a pretty typical perspective of Brazil—my impression was that Brazil was the country in South America with values closest to those in the US. If Twitter's leadership had the same misapprehension then it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable for them to push back against an order that clearly wouldn't fly in the US. Now, this does suggest either that they completely ignored their Brazilian legal team, didn't have one, or said team was incompetent. So this is not an excuse for their behavior so much as an explanation. An average American in the US expects this from Turkey and expects different from Brazil. That's apparently a rather ignorant perspective, but such is life.
- diggan 2y ago
  > If Twitter's leadership had the same misapprehension then it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable for them to push back against an order that clearly wouldn't fly in the US Huh? If the team is in Brazil, why would they oppose something that "would fly" in Brazil but not in the US? Doesn't matter if the entity itself (Twitter in this case) is in the US, if you're doing business in another country, even with a office there, you follow that country's laws and regulations.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    That's why I specified that this clearly shows incompetence somewhere—either the US entity made the call without listening to anyone in Brazil or the people in Brazil didn't adequately clarify the situation. Either way, it sure looks like the US leadership (probably mostly Musk) misjudged the situation by projecting US law and values onto the Brazilian system, which is a mistake they would never make with Turkey.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > misjudged the situation by projecting US law and values This happens almost by rule when US companies operate outside of the US, this is not some exception to this rule, so hardly surprising that it also happened here. I'm not sure sure it's "incompetence" as much as just a cultural difference.
thefz 2y ago
The fact that a website can be accessed across borders does not mean that within the sovereign territory of a country, it can just not respect its regulations.
lobocinza 2y ago
> What is the fuss around Brazil? Why this is not just another day with business as usual? The orders in Brazil were issued in secret. X couldn't even show that the accounts were withheld by legal demand. Turkey government is considered authoritarian by most where in Brazil the waters are still shallow. Read @AlexandreFiles.
- soco 2y ago
  I suppose if Twitter still had a legal representative there, they would have been involved. But hey, somebody decided not to keep that office, so here we are.
  - lobocinza 2y ago
    Musk said employees were threatened with jail.
    - soco 2y ago
      Maybe the company should just stop doing illegal stuff?
      - lobocinza 2y ago
        Moraes orders were illegal and went against the letter, the tradition and the spirit of the laws.
        soco 2y ago
        Said who? Any criminal will say that what they do is justified and legal and all. Only justice will officially decide on that and here justice decided, whether somebody (you, me, twitter) likes it or not. There's always the appeal path, and if all exhausted and I still don't like it, well, there. And honestly I can't even begin to understand the blue-eyed logic behind "I don't like a legal decision so I will not respect it and expect impunity"
wtcactus 2y ago
Your argument implies that we are supposed to ask the same level of autocracy from Brazil, as from Turkey, China or Russia. If that’s the argument being made, then fine. Let’s just accept that Brazil shouldn’t be treated like a democracy anymore and that Musk should be coherent and accept Brazil’s autocratic whims the same way he accepts Russia’s, China’s and Turkey’s ones.

by mrtksn 2y ago

soapdog 2y ago

Twitter is not complying with Brazilian law, it is simple.

brigadier132 2y ago
It's not complying with Brazilian law or is it not complying with the orders of a judge overstepping his powers granted by the Brazilian constitution?
- kranke155 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - brigadier132 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - kranke155 2y ago
      Asking for sources is a way to derail the conversation? Incredible. https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/c0l82k39x28o https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/articles/c0l82k39x28o Here is the BBC Brasil article on the topic. The ban has been upheld by the entire court, not just its more activist judges. A. The law in Brazil says any company needs a legal representative in the country. X does not. B. Under hate speech and misinformation laws some accounts were asked to be removed. They did not. C. Because the company wasn’t replying at all to court requests, they consider that obstruction of justice vs trying to appeal the court D. As far as Starlink they consider it a “de facto economic group under the control of Elon Musk” which is mostly true. Now as far as the Constitution, this is the Supreme court. So saying X has the right to judge the Supreme Court to be in breach of the Constitution, when they themselves are meant to make those decisions, is pretty nutty to me. It's like saying I don't agree with the abortion ban in Texas/Florida so I will continue to do them, since I don't accept Roe V Wave was overturned by Dobbs, so I will just do my own thing, keep doing abortions and f the court. That's a good way to get yourself arrested, which is what happened here. Instead you should look into why do you think this to be the truth?
      - brigadier132 2y ago
        [flagged]
        kranke155 2y ago
        I no longer believe you are performing this conversation in good faith, so I retire from it.
        brigadier132 2y ago
        > I no longer believe you are performing this conversation in good faith, No, you misunderstand what the conversation we just had was. I was showing everyone else here that you are not arguing in good faith.
        kranke155 2y ago
- defrost 2y ago
  The "rogue Supreme Court Justice" line doesn't fly now that the entire Brazilian Supreme Court have unanimously backed the ban.
  - Fidelix 2y ago
    Why do you have to intentionally misrepresent things (lie)? Flávio Dino (Appointed by Lula) Cármen Lúcia (Appointed by Lula) Cristiano Zanin (Appointed by Lula) Luiz Fux (Appointed by Lula) These are the only ones that voted.
    - kranke155 2y ago
      So who appointed them means I get to ignore them? So I could start doing abortions in Florida up to birth tomorrow, because I don't agree about the decision of the Trump SCOTUS?
      - EugeneOZ 2y ago
        Appointed - has influence, it is too simple to pretend that you don't understand it. And no need for allegory - it is just an attempt to deceive your opponent.
        ricardorivaldo 2y ago
        thats the system, like in USA, the elected presidente chose the supreme court judges, and the judge in question was appointed by a right wing president in 2017 when current one is a left wing from a diferent party. so, yes, influence, but in this situation twitter is acting as a rogue company and refuses to comply with the law, it can fight in the court it they do not agree, but as in most countries, is not up to the criminal to decide what is legal and what is not, for that most countries have a due legal process, as is the case for everything that is happening
        EugeneOZ 2y ago
        [flagged]
- ricardorivaldo 2y ago
  twitter is not complying with brazilian law, as stated in the constitution, and within brazilian legal framework, the supreme court has the legal atribution of defining what is legal or not, juditiary branch of government is separeted from executive and the judge in question was appointed by a right wing president in 2016 , current one is left wing, so everything acording to the law, telegram had this issue in 2020, they comply and now they can operate, as will twitter after comply with a simple court order, wich is required to have a legal representative in brazil, there is no question if it can or cannot operate, it can, just need to have someone to be responsable for the company and comply with the law
diggan 2y ago
As I understand it, X is avoiding to pay fines in Brazil, so in retaliation, Brazil ordered X to be blocked in Brazil if they don't respond. Starlink refused to follow along with the X block, so fines have been imposed at Starlink as well, for not following court order. I'm guessing the fines would accumulate daily, so now Starlink is adhering to the block. Add in a bit of personality dramas, corruption and typical billionaire and politician bullshit and you have the full picture.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  Where would the corruption be? Did Musk offer to pay someone for the fines to go away?

deburo 2y ago

Brazil is being overtaken by politicians who think they are above Brazil's constitution, which is quite catastrophic since Brazil seemed to be a good (?) republic.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mrtksn 2y ago
And how is this different from Turkey? The Turkish constitution court decisions are often not upheld, there are people in prison who are in prison despite the court ruling.
kranke155 2y ago
You're wrong. I'm Brazilian and this is nothing new. Brazil has always been intense in political lawfare. Elon just thinks he can make Brazil into an example, while he knows he would get blocked in Turkey in 2 seconds.
- deburo 2y ago
  It's not just Elon. Michael Shellenberger & TheFP for example has been reporting on this as well. You might not be impressed by the censorship happening in your country, but it's certainly worrying. I wouldn't know what to think if Canada banned Twitter. See here: https://www.thefp.com/p/matt-taibbi-on-the-global-censorship-af7 https://www.thefp.com/p/matt-taibbi-on-the-global-censorship...
  - kranke155 2y ago
    While I don't agree with Brazil doing exactly what it's doing, Elon is on the wrong on this one. The law is the law. The Supreme Court has voted unanimously. If he doesn't want to offer service there due to his morals, that's up to him. Let's be honest, the Steve Bannon connection to Brazil is probably a factor here.
    - 2y ago

2malaq 2y ago

I guess the fuss is about Bolsonaro being depicted as a dictator in the media and as soon as Lula da Silva takes over, authoritarian measures such as these are pushed forward?

CuriouslyC 2y ago
Lots of people who were generally against war and violence went to war to fight Hitler voluntarily.
smith7018 2y ago
This was decided by a Brazilian Supreme Federal Court justice, not Lula da Silva. In fact, the justice was appointed in 2017. Also, the court upheld his decision 2 days ago. Your comment is disingenuous and making this a liberal vs conservative issue when it's actually about X not respecting Brazilian law.
- 2malaq 2y ago
  Easy now. I'm only speculating on optics here.

api 2y ago

[flagged]

pessimizer 2y ago
> Not sure if it’s still true but for a while you could get instantly banned for saying “cisgender.” Free speech absolutism! This was never true, and you could have easily checked before posting this. People who are really concerned about misinformation seem to spread it around casually about their enemies.
- ziddoap 2y ago
  It's marked as a slur and falls under their hateful conduct policy. >Elon Musk has deemed the words “cis” and “cisgender” slurs on Twitter and warned that anyone who harasses others on Twitter will receive at least temporary suspension. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2023/07/02/elon-musk-deems-cis-a-twitter-slurheres-why-its-is-so-polarizing/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2023/07/02/elon-mus... https://www.fastcompany.com/91126082/elon-musk-x-cisgender-cis-slur https://www.fastcompany.com/91126082/elon-musk-x-cisgender-c... https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/x-cisgender-slur-cis-elon-musk-b2545355.html https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/x-cisgender-slur-cis-elon...
  - andsoitis 2y ago
    > and warned that anyone who harasses others on Twitter will receive at least temporary suspension. That is quite different from claiming that if you say “cisgender” you get banned…
    - ziddoap 2y ago
      I didn't say that you get banned. Just clarifying the truth of the matter is between what the two posters above me said.
- MSFT_Edging 2y ago
  While not banned, any tweet with "cis" was labeled as harmful content and immediately hidden. Some people did receive bans iirc. You could type "cis" under actual violent white supremacist posts and your comment would be labeled harmful. Twitter is not a bastion if free speech. It's a Nazi bar where a certain type ideologically violent free speech is encouraged.

Fidelix 2y ago

It's pretty simple. Twitter is following the law in all cases. In Brazil's case, the orders are illegal and in some cases contradict the law of other countries. This was all explained pretty well by X Global Affairs: https://x.com/GlobalAffairs https://x.com/GlobalAffairs

kranke155 2y ago
You really trust X Global Affairs over an entire government, with no research?
- Gud 2y ago
  "entire government"? really?
  - kranke155 2y ago
    [flagged]
- brigadier132 2y ago
  Yes, but with research
- goodluckchuck 2y ago
  Governments tend to be corrupt by their very nature.
  - kranke155 2y ago
    Corporations and billionaires however...
    - brigadier132 2y ago
      Talk to me when a corporation can be blamed for millions of human deaths.

input_sh 2y ago

The key difference is that Brazil is going after right-wingers. Not your average right-winger mind you, those seven accounts were closely related to the Brazilian version of Jan 6th: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Brazilian_Congress_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Brazilian_Congress_attack Since right-wingers are pretty much the core audience of Twitter nowadays, they complained, it reached Musk, he decided to take a bold stance, he lost the entire market. Simple as that.

kranke155 2y ago
The Steve Bannon connection. I always wondered how close Musk is to the Bannon-Mercer complex or influenced by it.
- input_sh 2y ago
  I see no need to turn conspiratorial, he's just gullible and easily persuaded by whoever's the loudest in his replies. If by some miracle leftists started agreeing with him, glazing him up every time he tweets something stupid, calling him the world's only good billionaire or something, I'm sure he'd switch sides.
bamboozled 2y ago
Platforms like Twitter are backdoors into our society, it's that simple. When in history did we have so much mass scale insanity and hysteria going on before social media? I know 100% crap things happened before social media, but the scale of the nonsense is for sure unprecedented.
ricardorivaldo 2y ago
not only after right-wingers, is the usual nazi, pedo violence too, but the ones who make noise are the usual far right , since no pedo goes on public to ask to have rights

thinkingtoilet 2y ago

[flagged]

goodluckchuck 2y ago
How do you get to authoritarian, when it’s the Brazilian authorities demanding that people be silenced? Perhaps you’re referring to some unrelated situation where X has been censoring people?
- kranke155 2y ago
  "people be silenced" it's like 7 accounts.
  - goodluckchuck 2y ago
    That may make the Brazilian government less authoritarian, but that doesn’t make anyone else more authoritarian. If anything, the fact that Musk is opposing even a very small act of authoritarianism would suggest that he is very strongly against authoritarianism.
    - kranke155 2y ago
      Why does he allow this to happen in Turkey however? Could it be because Steve Bannon is a personal friend of the Bolsonaro family?
      - Pedro_Ribeiro 2y ago
        In Turkey this wouldn't fly for even a second. He thinks he can make an example out of Brazil (and it's clearly striking a nerve even if it ends up not working out.)
  - amlib 2y ago
    Also, those accounts were used by people who were investigated by the equivalent of the FBI, the Policia Federal (PF). The initial request to block those accounts AFAIK came from them, and the fact that this case ended up in the hands of the Supreme Court is because Elon decided to play chicken, escalating the situation in every possible way for seemingly no good reason.

lolinder 2y ago

Speaking as an American who probably has a pretty typical perspective of Brazil—my impression was that Brazil was the country in South America with values closest to those in the US. If Twitter's leadership had the same misapprehension then it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable for them to push back against an order that clearly wouldn't fly in the US. Now, this does suggest either that they completely ignored their Brazilian legal team, didn't have one, or said team was incompetent. So this is not an excuse for their behavior so much as an explanation. An average American in the US expects this from Turkey and expects different from Brazil. That's apparently a rather ignorant perspective, but such is life.

diggan 2y ago
> If Twitter's leadership had the same misapprehension then it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable for them to push back against an order that clearly wouldn't fly in the US Huh? If the team is in Brazil, why would they oppose something that "would fly" in Brazil but not in the US? Doesn't matter if the entity itself (Twitter in this case) is in the US, if you're doing business in another country, even with a office there, you follow that country's laws and regulations.
- lolinder 2y ago
  That's why I specified that this clearly shows incompetence somewhere—either the US entity made the call without listening to anyone in Brazil or the people in Brazil didn't adequately clarify the situation. Either way, it sure looks like the US leadership (probably mostly Musk) misjudged the situation by projecting US law and values onto the Brazilian system, which is a mistake they would never make with Turkey.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > misjudged the situation by projecting US law and values This happens almost by rule when US companies operate outside of the US, this is not some exception to this rule, so hardly surprising that it also happened here. I'm not sure sure it's "incompetence" as much as just a cultural difference.

thefz 2y ago

The fact that a website can be accessed across borders does not mean that within the sovereign territory of a country, it can just not respect its regulations.

lobocinza 2y ago

> What is the fuss around Brazil? Why this is not just another day with business as usual? The orders in Brazil were issued in secret. X couldn't even show that the accounts were withheld by legal demand. Turkey government is considered authoritarian by most where in Brazil the waters are still shallow. Read @AlexandreFiles.

soco 2y ago
I suppose if Twitter still had a legal representative there, they would have been involved. But hey, somebody decided not to keep that office, so here we are.
- lobocinza 2y ago
  Musk said employees were threatened with jail.
  - soco 2y ago
    Maybe the company should just stop doing illegal stuff?
    - lobocinza 2y ago
      Moraes orders were illegal and went against the letter, the tradition and the spirit of the laws.
      - soco 2y ago
        Said who? Any criminal will say that what they do is justified and legal and all. Only justice will officially decide on that and here justice decided, whether somebody (you, me, twitter) likes it or not. There's always the appeal path, and if all exhausted and I still don't like it, well, there. And honestly I can't even begin to understand the blue-eyed logic behind "I don't like a legal decision so I will not respect it and expect impunity"

wtcactus 2y ago

Your argument implies that we are supposed to ask the same level of autocracy from Brazil, as from Turkey, China or Russia. If that’s the argument being made, then fine. Let’s just accept that Brazil shouldn’t be treated like a democracy anymore and that Musk should be coherent and accept Brazil’s autocratic whims the same way he accepts Russia’s, China’s and Turkey’s ones.