5 ms·

It very much depends what you define as "boot time". For example, Windows optimizes for time to fist UI, meanwhile everything else continues to load and the PC

It very much depends what you define as "boot time". For example, Windows optimizes for time to fist UI, meanwhile everything else continues to load and the PC stays unusable for multiple seconds after "boot".

pandemic_region 2y ago
sorry man but that typo had me lol, early mornings here I do apologize.
layoric 2y ago
Exactly my experience as well. I moved away from Windows (10) earlier this year, and login times (waiting for the user desktop to come up after putting in credentials) took ~10 seconds. Sometimes it was faster after a fresh install, but it never lasted, even when regularly managing what services and apps were loaded on startup.
gerdesj 2y ago
"Windows optimizes for time to fist UI," I'm going to apologise right now for giggling at your typo. Microsoft have done some horrible things to UI. The start menu - yes they created the fucking thing, yes it is now called start by everyone - own it (think Biro and co and stop being dicks) and it belongs at the left hand side. "We" know better than you, lets put it in the middle and surround it with weird shit and lets make it odd and put fucking games controllers on a corporate laptop and other wankery that we can't be bothered to curate because we are so poor but if you love our weather forecasts and shitty ... whomever will pay us .. whatever thing. I think that Microsoft have lost interest in humanity as anything than a pool of subscription slaves to contribute to their bottom line. That is some pretty aggressive fisting.
- pbhjpbhj 2y ago
  The principal menu is still bottom left doing what they clearly see as most important thing in the OS, advertising shit and feeding you heavily politicised propaganda. So useful!
genewitch 2y ago
you all reboot windows? madness. I got devuan down to about 8 seconds from startup -> login -> shutdown on the tty. Gentoo boots pretty fast to a desktop (maybe 15-20 seconds) - a lot of the slowdown on "modern" linux is systemd waiting for NICs and whatever to quiesce. Hilariously, Ubuntu is by far the worst at boot times, i've had ubuntu sit there for minutes because it was airgapped. I kinda lost interest in attempting to speed up boots more than that, maybe if i had some funding i could get debian or gentoo down to a couple of seconds of boot overhead before X/wayland/whatever runs.
- kiwijamo 2y ago
  Windows is pretty fast nowdays on modern hardware (especially if it's booting off an SSD drive) and Debian/GNOME is also pretty fast to a desktop as well. Slow boots off a SSD drive would point at an issue somewhere regardless of your OS. I generally do shutdown on my gaming tower PC as the idle power usage isn't great and shutdown/boot is fast enough that it's not much difference compared to suspend. Laptops though I just suspend -- I often get weeks of uptime in Windows.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    I almost want to test this out - shut down my PC, unplug it, hit the power button, wait like 15 minutes, then turn it back on. Will it still be "pretty fast"? My (probably wrong) understanding was windows boot times are so fast because it's really just hibernating when you shut down. I'm sure there's technical names for the power state (S0?) - but ram is kept "warm" so that resume basically just needs to check that all the devices it needs are connected and reset the software clock. I'm currently showing 50.6GB "in use" and 62GB commit on my windows machine. My boot drive is an intel SSD on sata, less than a GB/second - this implies if windows does recover memory from disk on "cold" boot my machine will take about a minute to restore RAM. i may be conflating things, but i've lived with this assumption that shutting down my PC is merely hibernating it, and as such, i always pull mains power before removing hardware.
    - Filligree 2y ago
kiwijamo 2y ago
This is frequently due to startup apps, not Windows itself. I generally find when I disable stuff like Steam, Teams, Creative Cloud, OEM (e.g. HP) software, etc Windows is usable as soon as I log on. My work Windows laptop has most startup apps disabled (with the exception of OneDrive and Teams which I use frequently enough that it makes sense for it to be enabled on my work laptop) and I log on to a desktop ready to go. My personal laptop has everything except OneDrive disabled. YMMV and I acknowledge the default settings of letting apps insert themselves as Startup apps without user approval is not ideal. I note this is also an issue on MacOS from experience at my previous employer who issued me a Macbook which was configured as per corporate policy to have various apps including anti virus and the like loading on login to desktop. Only platforms that is so far immune to this is open source distros like Debian (using GNOME, its default desktop environment) et al but I've yet to work for an employer that uses Linux.
nox101 2y ago
My Windows box starts fast, gets to login in moments, and is usable immediately. Are you sure you don't have a bunch of extra software set to run at startup? Steam? Adobe Creative Cloud? Oculus Support? My corp Mac actually has this issue as it launches some security software, launches the browser, checks that apps are up to date and security patches are applied etc. It takes several seconds (10-20?) before it's ready to use.
NavinF 2y ago
When I reboot my Windows PC every 3 months or so, I can start using it as soon as the desktop shows up. No slowdown. I have 5800x3d/64GB/2TB/4090. I don't have any startup apps other than the ones that come built-in with enterprise edition. Why do you have such a different experience?
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  > Why do you have such a different experience? Well... > I don't have any startup apps other than the ones that come built-in with enterprise edition. There is the matter where 99% of people aren't on enterprise, and of the 1% who are, virtually all are running it laden with a pile of corporate garbage.
  - NavinF 2y ago
    Guy goes into the doctor's office. Says, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this. " You know what the doctor says? "Don't do that" Seriously tho, anyone can activate enterprise edition with MAS. And even if you're on home edition, why would it take longer to boot up? All the crap is on your SSD, not your RAM
  - baq 2y ago
    I'm pretty sure crowdstrike and its competitors can slow down any computer regardless of the OS to the point of uselessness.
Avamander 2y ago
I consider boot time from power off until I can start the first application I want. But I am a bit strict about what I consider slow on modern hardware though. Why should a regular desktop distro wait around five seconds for networking and NTP before displaying login, or why should it take UEFI 5s to start the OS. I can forgive SBCs running off an SD card taking 15-30 seconds to boot, but not a PC that's significantly faster in all other aspects. I'm not even going to start with all the crap that starts on an average Windows desktop. It's disgusting.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  > Why should a regular desktop distro wait around five seconds for networking and NTP before displaying login Well, for one, there may be a Kerberos ticket based auth system in place that requires accurate time. Or for AD on the Windows side.
  - Avamander 2y ago
    So those who need that should configure their systems as such and the majority should get to enjoy faster boot times?

pandemic_region 2y ago

sorry man but that typo had me lol, early mornings here I do apologize.

layoric 2y ago

Exactly my experience as well. I moved away from Windows (10) earlier this year, and login times (waiting for the user desktop to come up after putting in credentials) took ~10 seconds. Sometimes it was faster after a fresh install, but it never lasted, even when regularly managing what services and apps were loaded on startup.

gerdesj 2y ago

"Windows optimizes for time to fist UI," I'm going to apologise right now for giggling at your typo. Microsoft have done some horrible things to UI. The start menu - yes they created the fucking thing, yes it is now called start by everyone - own it (think Biro and co and stop being dicks) and it belongs at the left hand side. "We" know better than you, lets put it in the middle and surround it with weird shit and lets make it odd and put fucking games controllers on a corporate laptop and other wankery that we can't be bothered to curate because we are so poor but if you love our weather forecasts and shitty ... whomever will pay us .. whatever thing. I think that Microsoft have lost interest in humanity as anything than a pool of subscription slaves to contribute to their bottom line. That is some pretty aggressive fisting.

pbhjpbhj 2y ago
The principal menu is still bottom left doing what they clearly see as most important thing in the OS, advertising shit and feeding you heavily politicised propaganda. So useful!

genewitch 2y ago

you all reboot windows? madness. I got devuan down to about 8 seconds from startup -> login -> shutdown on the tty. Gentoo boots pretty fast to a desktop (maybe 15-20 seconds) - a lot of the slowdown on "modern" linux is systemd waiting for NICs and whatever to quiesce. Hilariously, Ubuntu is by far the worst at boot times, i've had ubuntu sit there for minutes because it was airgapped. I kinda lost interest in attempting to speed up boots more than that, maybe if i had some funding i could get debian or gentoo down to a couple of seconds of boot overhead before X/wayland/whatever runs.

kiwijamo 2y ago
Windows is pretty fast nowdays on modern hardware (especially if it's booting off an SSD drive) and Debian/GNOME is also pretty fast to a desktop as well. Slow boots off a SSD drive would point at an issue somewhere regardless of your OS. I generally do shutdown on my gaming tower PC as the idle power usage isn't great and shutdown/boot is fast enough that it's not much difference compared to suspend. Laptops though I just suspend -- I often get weeks of uptime in Windows.
- genewitch 2y ago
  I almost want to test this out - shut down my PC, unplug it, hit the power button, wait like 15 minutes, then turn it back on. Will it still be "pretty fast"? My (probably wrong) understanding was windows boot times are so fast because it's really just hibernating when you shut down. I'm sure there's technical names for the power state (S0?) - but ram is kept "warm" so that resume basically just needs to check that all the devices it needs are connected and reset the software clock. I'm currently showing 50.6GB "in use" and 62GB commit on my windows machine. My boot drive is an intel SSD on sata, less than a GB/second - this implies if windows does recover memory from disk on "cold" boot my machine will take about a minute to restore RAM. i may be conflating things, but i've lived with this assumption that shutting down my PC is merely hibernating it, and as such, i always pull mains power before removing hardware.
  - Filligree 2y ago

kiwijamo 2y ago

This is frequently due to startup apps, not Windows itself. I generally find when I disable stuff like Steam, Teams, Creative Cloud, OEM (e.g. HP) software, etc Windows is usable as soon as I log on. My work Windows laptop has most startup apps disabled (with the exception of OneDrive and Teams which I use frequently enough that it makes sense for it to be enabled on my work laptop) and I log on to a desktop ready to go. My personal laptop has everything except OneDrive disabled. YMMV and I acknowledge the default settings of letting apps insert themselves as Startup apps without user approval is not ideal. I note this is also an issue on MacOS from experience at my previous employer who issued me a Macbook which was configured as per corporate policy to have various apps including anti virus and the like loading on login to desktop. Only platforms that is so far immune to this is open source distros like Debian (using GNOME, its default desktop environment) et al but I've yet to work for an employer that uses Linux.

nox101 2y ago

My Windows box starts fast, gets to login in moments, and is usable immediately. Are you sure you don't have a bunch of extra software set to run at startup? Steam? Adobe Creative Cloud? Oculus Support? My corp Mac actually has this issue as it launches some security software, launches the browser, checks that apps are up to date and security patches are applied etc. It takes several seconds (10-20?) before it's ready to use.

NavinF 2y ago

When I reboot my Windows PC every 3 months or so, I can start using it as soon as the desktop shows up. No slowdown. I have 5800x3d/64GB/2TB/4090. I don't have any startup apps other than the ones that come built-in with enterprise edition. Why do you have such a different experience?

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
> Why do you have such a different experience? Well... > I don't have any startup apps other than the ones that come built-in with enterprise edition. There is the matter where 99% of people aren't on enterprise, and of the 1% who are, virtually all are running it laden with a pile of corporate garbage.
- NavinF 2y ago
  Guy goes into the doctor's office. Says, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this. " You know what the doctor says? "Don't do that" Seriously tho, anyone can activate enterprise edition with MAS. And even if you're on home edition, why would it take longer to boot up? All the crap is on your SSD, not your RAM
- baq 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure crowdstrike and its competitors can slow down any computer regardless of the OS to the point of uselessness.

Avamander 2y ago

I consider boot time from power off until I can start the first application I want. But I am a bit strict about what I consider slow on modern hardware though. Why should a regular desktop distro wait around five seconds for networking and NTP before displaying login, or why should it take UEFI 5s to start the OS. I can forgive SBCs running off an SD card taking 15-30 seconds to boot, but not a PC that's significantly faster in all other aspects. I'm not even going to start with all the crap that starts on an average Windows desktop. It's disgusting.

FireBeyond 2y ago
> Why should a regular desktop distro wait around five seconds for networking and NTP before displaying login Well, for one, there may be a Kerberos ticket based auth system in place that requires accurate time. Or for AD on the Windows side.
- Avamander 2y ago
  So those who need that should configure their systems as such and the majority should get to enjoy faster boot times?