8 ms·

Californians can now add their mobile driver's license to Google Wallet

69 points by smlacy 2y ago

nikolay 2y ago
We can't. My mDL has been "under review" for 2 weeks!
- 9cb14c1ec0 2y ago
  Oh no, I can just imagine a future in which anti-fraud features mistakenly block my digital-only drivers license, leaving me screaming at a stupid customer support chatbot as some CEO brags about how the use of AI in said chatbot is improving customer satisfaction.
  - snerbles 2y ago
    I've already had this happen with a new MacBook - attempting to link an old account tripped a fraud flag with the device and now Apple refuses to even allow the creation of a new account, with an accompanying vague error after the process. At least today I can just limp along with Homebrew. I doubt self-hosting mDLs are in anyone's plans.
TheCleric 2y ago
Do not hand your phone to a cop. Ever.
- giantg2 2y ago
  It wouldn't surprise me if this sort of digital ID becomes mandatory or default in rhe next 20 years. Imagine a world where you need to upload your license to the canbus, biometrically identify, and breathalyze for the car to start...
  - BadHumans 2y ago
    This is where things are headed although I'm not sure it will be dystopian as you imagine. There is not point in requiring digital ID for a breathalyzer.
  - dheera 2y ago
    Except Google Wallet doesn't let me use these features anyway because I have a rooted device
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    and breathalyze for the car to start This is old tech. I had a boss in the 90's who had an ignition interlock thing on his car and it wouldn't start unless he blew clean. I found out about it when he was trying to find someone at work to blow into it so he could go home. It wasn't until a couple of days later that I put it together that he managed to get so drunk during working hours that he couldn't drive himself home.
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      That part is mature, but Google/Apple being the only supported way to unlock it? Priceless.
    - giantg2 2y ago
      Yeah, but it's not mandatory on every new car. It very well could be in the future. In fact, one of the laws over the past few years set a mandate on new cars detecting drunk drivers in the future. They're currently working on less intrusive versions that passively scan the air or your hands on the wheel.
      - neuralRiot 2y ago
        Unless there’s breakthrough development on alcohol sensors i doubt it, they need periodic calibration to be precise also it’s not just a matter of “blowing” you need to blow-suck-hum for it to read.
- elicash 2y ago
  I think it could depend on the protections Google (and Apple) puts on this type of thing. You could imagine a scenario where putting a phone into driver's license mode disables Face Unlock, and maybe even pauses all push notifications like text messages, and therefore is more secure because it forces people to put their phone into a password mode. So it'd actually encourage people, when talking to law enforcement, to increase their security settings. I don't know if these companies currently do it like this, but they should.
  - barkerja 2y ago
    Apple's approach with Wallet is to allow the transmission of (selective) ID data without fully unlocking your phone. I believe it's the same as when you tap to pay using a credit card in your wallet. You must provide passcode/biometrics when requested, but that does not unlock your device.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  You should never need to hand your phone over for any other usage of Google Wallet, so hopefully most people realize that they shouldn't hand it over for this ever.
- raldi 2y ago
  "You don't need to unlock, show, or hand over your device to present your license or ID." https://support.apple.com/en-us/118237 https://support.apple.com/en-us/118237
- modeless 2y ago
  You'll be happy to know that the UI for this prominently states that you should not hand your phone to the person requesting ID. ID information is not shown on your screen. It's sent via Bluetooth after an NFC tap and a confirmation dialog.
  - puppycodes 2y ago
    "my nfc reader is down, unlock your phone" -- every cop
    - modeless 2y ago
      Yeah I was disappointed to see that while the ID information is hidden by default you can actually bring it up on screen in a buried menu. If they were serious they would have made it so the information can never show on the screen of the device that holds the ID.
    - bigfatkitten 2y ago
      Cop during a traffic stop: "I need to take this back to my car to run some checks."
threatofrain 2y ago
On one hand the only motivation this can serve is to protect your privacy, since now you can disclosure a minimal amount of information, on the other hand government routinely buys foreign services to break into phones and so you're basically handing someone your whole life.
giantg2 2y ago
I assume this is only valid in that state. I bet most states want to seethe physical card if you are driving outside of CA.
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  I'd assume they'd be happier if you forget it to increase the chance of a sweet sweet flyover state civil asset forfeiture™
Shank 2y ago
From the mDL pilot program website [0]: 1. Continue to carry your physical driver’s license or state-issued ID card. Law enforcement, state government agencies, and businesses aren’t yet accepting the mDL. 2. The mDL is currently authorized for limited usage. There are many participating airports across the United States. Right now the only main use case is tap-and-fly (can I make this term a thing?) where you don’t need to present your ID to TSA at select airports. Also, it has a nice design and looks cool. The best use case is probably that it can work as a backup if you forget your ID at home when you’re trying to board a plane, or if you want to simplify what’s in your pockets prior to boarding. [0]: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/ca-dmv-wallet/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/ca-dmv-wallet/
martinbaun 2y ago
Am I the only one who is a little wary of this? Google having your drivers license and starting to partner up with the government?
- 0xbadcafebee 2y ago
  What exactly are you wary of? Both of them already know where you live, and the government already buys private databases with all your information in it.
  - akira2501 2y ago
    "Due to an account problem your mobile ID cannot be used at this time." snark removed.
    - gruez 2y ago
      So have a physical backup? I don't see how this is different than using google pay. Sure it could get declined, but that's why I have physical cards as backup.
      - akira2501 2y ago
        Google pay and your cards are equivalent and offer equivalent privacy to you. The digital IDs entire reason for existing is removed by reverting to the physical backup, plus you have to keep it with you, and risk losing it which also damages your privacy differently. If you'll allow me to suggest the next goalpost, it would be some locations changing their policy to no longer accept physical IDs. That's probably a long way away, but it is a likely outcome, given our recent history. If the States actually cared about these outcomes, they'd ally together, and create an ID "smartcard" standard, with special terminals, that can be used to present your ID and only release certain information with a PIN. The card would otherwise just have your name and ID number on it. Everything else would need to be digitally "released."
        2y ago
herpderperator 2y ago
[flagged]
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
Related: Hawai'i-Issued Real IDs Can Be Added to Apple Wallet Beginning August 28 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41395050 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41395050
kopirgan 2y ago
Why is this even news?! I don't know about USA but in India you can store licenses, vehicle ID cards, school certificates, insurance and hundreds of other state or federal issued documents in an app -Digilocker for years now.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  I believe Utah is the only US state where you can carry your ID digitally on your phone and use it to buy alcohol or give it to police during a traffic stop. If California moves in that direction, it will be a big deal; soon we could leave home with just our phone without any analog cards.
- 2143 2y ago
  For those who don't know, Digilocker is a govt initiative. Also, it is opt-in and not mandatory. If you don't want to use it then don't bother. Nobody will force you to install the app or attach it with any of your docs.
- anal_reactor 2y ago
  Some European countries already had such apps for years too, although we're still waiting for EU-wide system to be adopted.
parpfish 2y ago
“Sorry officer, I can’t show you my ID because my battery died”
ldbooth 2y ago
I applied via Google wallet and was automatically rejected. Seems like a beta at the moment ... The rejection email worked flawlessly however.
puppycodes 2y ago
I guarentee you this will let cops arrest you for not unlocking your phone because you "won't provide ID" and thus you are obstructing...
- freehorse 2y ago
  I dont know how it works with android, but on an iphone you can open your apple wallet without unlocking your phone.
  - puppycodes 2y ago
    They demand you unlock it is how it works ;) just because its possible to show it without unlocking it, doesn't mean they wont demand it. Its techically legal for me to walk around with an AK 47 and a ski mask in my neighborhood but your most definitly getting ur rights violated by a swat team.
janalsncm 2y ago
Other than the airport, there doesn’t seem to be any benefit. If I still need to carry my ID card this is not really more convenient.
manchmalscott 2y ago
I’m not sure I really understand the benefit to having your drivers license on your phone. “You can use it at TSA!” Cool but I’m already using my phone for my boarding pass. I guarantee you the friction and additional time to scan the boarding pass and then switch to the drivers license and scan that (when typically these are done in parallel) is going to make that use case a complete non-starter. Best case scenario someone tries it out and realizes it completely messes up the workflow and never uses it again.

69 points by smlacy 2y ago

nikolay 2y ago

We can't. My mDL has been "under review" for 2 weeks!

9cb14c1ec0 2y ago
Oh no, I can just imagine a future in which anti-fraud features mistakenly block my digital-only drivers license, leaving me screaming at a stupid customer support chatbot as some CEO brags about how the use of AI in said chatbot is improving customer satisfaction.
- snerbles 2y ago
  I've already had this happen with a new MacBook - attempting to link an old account tripped a fraud flag with the device and now Apple refuses to even allow the creation of a new account, with an accompanying vague error after the process. At least today I can just limp along with Homebrew. I doubt self-hosting mDLs are in anyone's plans.

TheCleric 2y ago

Do not hand your phone to a cop. Ever.

giantg2 2y ago
It wouldn't surprise me if this sort of digital ID becomes mandatory or default in rhe next 20 years. Imagine a world where you need to upload your license to the canbus, biometrically identify, and breathalyze for the car to start...
- BadHumans 2y ago
  This is where things are headed although I'm not sure it will be dystopian as you imagine. There is not point in requiring digital ID for a breathalyzer.
- dheera 2y ago
  Except Google Wallet doesn't let me use these features anyway because I have a rooted device
- reaperducer 2y ago
  and breathalyze for the car to start This is old tech. I had a boss in the 90's who had an ignition interlock thing on his car and it wouldn't start unless he blew clean. I found out about it when he was trying to find someone at work to blow into it so he could go home. It wasn't until a couple of days later that I put it together that he managed to get so drunk during working hours that he couldn't drive himself home.
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    That part is mature, but Google/Apple being the only supported way to unlock it? Priceless.
  - giantg2 2y ago
    Yeah, but it's not mandatory on every new car. It very well could be in the future. In fact, one of the laws over the past few years set a mandate on new cars detecting drunk drivers in the future. They're currently working on less intrusive versions that passively scan the air or your hands on the wheel.
    - neuralRiot 2y ago
      Unless there’s breakthrough development on alcohol sensors i doubt it, they need periodic calibration to be precise also it’s not just a matter of “blowing” you need to blow-suck-hum for it to read.
elicash 2y ago
I think it could depend on the protections Google (and Apple) puts on this type of thing. You could imagine a scenario where putting a phone into driver's license mode disables Face Unlock, and maybe even pauses all push notifications like text messages, and therefore is more secure because it forces people to put their phone into a password mode. So it'd actually encourage people, when talking to law enforcement, to increase their security settings. I don't know if these companies currently do it like this, but they should.
- barkerja 2y ago
  Apple's approach with Wallet is to allow the transmission of (selective) ID data without fully unlocking your phone. I believe it's the same as when you tap to pay using a credit card in your wallet. You must provide passcode/biometrics when requested, but that does not unlock your device.
bryanlarsen 2y ago
You should never need to hand your phone over for any other usage of Google Wallet, so hopefully most people realize that they shouldn't hand it over for this ever.
raldi 2y ago
"You don't need to unlock, show, or hand over your device to present your license or ID." https://support.apple.com/en-us/118237 https://support.apple.com/en-us/118237
modeless 2y ago
You'll be happy to know that the UI for this prominently states that you should not hand your phone to the person requesting ID. ID information is not shown on your screen. It's sent via Bluetooth after an NFC tap and a confirmation dialog.
- puppycodes 2y ago
  "my nfc reader is down, unlock your phone" -- every cop
  - modeless 2y ago
    Yeah I was disappointed to see that while the ID information is hidden by default you can actually bring it up on screen in a buried menu. If they were serious they would have made it so the information can never show on the screen of the device that holds the ID.
  - bigfatkitten 2y ago
    Cop during a traffic stop: "I need to take this back to my car to run some checks."

threatofrain 2y ago

On one hand the only motivation this can serve is to protect your privacy, since now you can disclosure a minimal amount of information, on the other hand government routinely buys foreign services to break into phones and so you're basically handing someone your whole life.

giantg2 2y ago

I assume this is only valid in that state. I bet most states want to seethe physical card if you are driving outside of CA.

kylehotchkiss 2y ago
I'd assume they'd be happier if you forget it to increase the chance of a sweet sweet flyover state civil asset forfeiture™

Shank 2y ago

From the mDL pilot program website [0]: 1. Continue to carry your physical driver’s license or state-issued ID card. Law enforcement, state government agencies, and businesses aren’t yet accepting the mDL. 2. The mDL is currently authorized for limited usage. There are many participating airports across the United States. Right now the only main use case is tap-and-fly (can I make this term a thing?) where you don’t need to present your ID to TSA at select airports. Also, it has a nice design and looks cool. The best use case is probably that it can work as a backup if you forget your ID at home when you’re trying to board a plane, or if you want to simplify what’s in your pockets prior to boarding. [0]: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/ca-dmv-wallet/ https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/ca-dmv-wallet/

martinbaun 2y ago

Am I the only one who is a little wary of this? Google having your drivers license and starting to partner up with the government?

0xbadcafebee 2y ago
What exactly are you wary of? Both of them already know where you live, and the government already buys private databases with all your information in it.
- akira2501 2y ago
  "Due to an account problem your mobile ID cannot be used at this time." snark removed.
  - gruez 2y ago
    So have a physical backup? I don't see how this is different than using google pay. Sure it could get declined, but that's why I have physical cards as backup.
    - akira2501 2y ago
      Google pay and your cards are equivalent and offer equivalent privacy to you. The digital IDs entire reason for existing is removed by reverting to the physical backup, plus you have to keep it with you, and risk losing it which also damages your privacy differently. If you'll allow me to suggest the next goalpost, it would be some locations changing their policy to no longer accept physical IDs. That's probably a long way away, but it is a likely outcome, given our recent history. If the States actually cared about these outcomes, they'd ally together, and create an ID "smartcard" standard, with special terminals, that can be used to present your ID and only release certain information with a PIN. The card would otherwise just have your name and ID number on it. Everything else would need to be digitally "released."
      - 2y ago

herpderperator 2y ago

[flagged]

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

Related: Hawai'i-Issued Real IDs Can Be Added to Apple Wallet Beginning August 28 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41395050 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41395050

kopirgan 2y ago

Why is this even news?! I don't know about USA but in India you can store licenses, vehicle ID cards, school certificates, insurance and hundreds of other state or federal issued documents in an app -Digilocker for years now.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
I believe Utah is the only US state where you can carry your ID digitally on your phone and use it to buy alcohol or give it to police during a traffic stop. If California moves in that direction, it will be a big deal; soon we could leave home with just our phone without any analog cards.
2143 2y ago
For those who don't know, Digilocker is a govt initiative. Also, it is opt-in and not mandatory. If you don't want to use it then don't bother. Nobody will force you to install the app or attach it with any of your docs.
anal_reactor 2y ago
Some European countries already had such apps for years too, although we're still waiting for EU-wide system to be adopted.

parpfish 2y ago

“Sorry officer, I can’t show you my ID because my battery died”

ldbooth 2y ago

I applied via Google wallet and was automatically rejected. Seems like a beta at the moment ... The rejection email worked flawlessly however.

puppycodes 2y ago

I guarentee you this will let cops arrest you for not unlocking your phone because you "won't provide ID" and thus you are obstructing...

freehorse 2y ago
I dont know how it works with android, but on an iphone you can open your apple wallet without unlocking your phone.
- puppycodes 2y ago
  They demand you unlock it is how it works ;) just because its possible to show it without unlocking it, doesn't mean they wont demand it. Its techically legal for me to walk around with an AK 47 and a ski mask in my neighborhood but your most definitly getting ur rights violated by a swat team.

janalsncm 2y ago

Other than the airport, there doesn’t seem to be any benefit. If I still need to carry my ID card this is not really more convenient.

manchmalscott 2y ago

I’m not sure I really understand the benefit to having your drivers license on your phone. “You can use it at TSA!” Cool but I’m already using my phone for my boarding pass. I guarantee you the friction and additional time to scan the boarding pass and then switch to the drivers license and scan that (when typically these are done in parallel) is going to make that use case a complete non-starter. Best case scenario someone tries it out and realizes it completely messes up the workflow and never uses it again.