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Telegram boss banned from leaving France in criminal probe
- netsharc 2y agoI wonder why Putin/Russia is yelling about this, the guy's become a persona non grata in Russia according to Wikipedia. Perhaps he's secretly cooperating with Putin? Or maybe Putin's regime is afraid the French will uncover their propaganda networks on Telegram...
- nashashmi 2y agoRussian forces are using telegram channels in mission operations in the invasion of Ukraine.
- dboreham 2y agoThis move may not be what it seems. He may have sought protection from Putin and the charges are a cover.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mrcode007 2y agoThere is no b-3 bomber :-)
- Stagnant 2y agoI've assumed it is because domestically it looks good for him to 'support' a Russian citizen, while simultaneously being a bad look for Durov in the west.
- cen4 2y agoMaybe cause when you take down one Billionaire and get away with it, the temptation to take down another increases. Russian oligarchs need to go if US/EU is serious about regime change there.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- energy123 2y agoOptics. Putin has no influence over what happens in France, so anything he says about this is for propaganda purposes.
- viraptor 2y agoPutin criticises / praises lots of things just to make a statement or publish an opinion on some governments. It's not the first time and it's not unusual. It possibly has no relation to what he things of the guy.
- maratc 2y agoThat’s just a “Hey, you Gershkovich’ed one of ours!” show. The point they are trying to get across is that they are doing the same the West does. Durov (still) being a Russian citizen certainly helps them.
- nashashmi 2y agoUntil he starts to capitulate to censorship, especially of anti-Israeli and pro-russian groups, they will continue to pin all indirect criminal activity on him. Free speech is defined as speech free of threats to the establishment.
- mjfl 2y agoI've heard rumors that this particular arrest was made for the unspoken reason that Israel had a major intelligence leak, collections of which are distributed on Telegram that the service has been 'unresponsive' for taking down. France cooperating with Israel on this makes too much sense. https://archive.ph/wpYTK https://archive.ph/wpYTK
- kalrna 2y agoIt does make more sense as the trigger than the Russia/Ukraine situation. Here is the summary (The original Haaretz article is paywalled, please only focus on the Haaretz quotes and not the rest): https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/anti-israel-hackers-have-released-troves-of-classified-data-haaretz/3308994 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/anti-israel-hackers-hav... "The leaked data has appeared on platforms like Telegram, prompting a series of takedown attempts by Israeli authorities. However, Telegram’s limited moderation policies have complicated these efforts."
- lores 2y agoFrance has taken a stance on the Israel/Palestine war that is well short of condemning Israel, but is still seen by them as hostile. I doubt they would cooperate in such a high-profile manner. If there is a political goal, it's more likely in order to help Ukraine.
- nashashmi 2y agoA gist of france’s feelings on this: https://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-strives-balancing-divided-muslim-jewish-french-communities-war-israel-gaza/ https://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-strives-bala... A balance between supporting Israel yet without losing support of the French.
- ex3ndr 2y agoBoss? He is a founder, not a head of mafia.
- anigbrowl 2y agoIt's the BBC. 'boss' as a mafia trope is specific to the US.
- JumpCrisscross 2y agoYup. Similar to scheme, which doesn't carry the same negative connotation in British English as it does here.
- drdaeman 2y agoI believe, the noun "boss", when meant as "a person who exercises control or authority", does not imply legal status or purpose of any group or organization. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/boss https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/boss gives an example of "union bosses".
- puppycodes 2y agothats what I keep telling the guy at the corner store
- juanani 2y ago[dead]
- wileydragonfly 2y agoThe first time I’d heard about Telegram being used was when some dude hacked those modern NeoGeo minis and was distributing CFW there. Figured it must be shady as hell. Have yet to see otherwise.
- zamadatix 2y agoFor reference, Telegram is a ~billion MAU platform - not seeing more than a singular ${thing} on it says more about what you've bothered to look at than what's on the platform. It's also a bit odd to come to Hacker News to specifically name distributing custom firmware itself as the cause of shadiness.
- sgjohnson 2y agoIANAL, but I think that this case mostly has merit. Telegram is not end-to-end encrypted by default. So they have access to the conversations in group chats and non-E2E encrypted DMs. One of the charges is refusal to provide information when requested by law enforcement. And he is a French citizen, so there might be an explicit obligation to cooperate with law enforcement when requested. To me it sounds like he’s being done in for not putting E2E encryption on everything. Whether he should be liable for what others do on his platform is a different matter entirely. But it has merit.
- IncreasePosts 2y ago> And he is a French citizen, so there might be an explicit obligation to cooperate with law enforcement when requested. Seems unlikely. If French law enforcement asked a French citizen working at Microsoft in Washington to exfiltrate some data for an investigation, could they be arrested if they didn't do it?
- melbourne_mat 2y agoHe'll get out - maybe through the embassy. It's not like there would be extradition between Russia and France with the relationship as it is at the moment.
- sgjohnson 2y agoWhat embassy? He’s a French citizen and a persona non grata in Russia.
- sega_sai 2y agoHe's not persona non grata. He visited Russia last time in October 2021 (see recent reporting by Vaznye Istorii). (I doubt he'll escape to Russia though).
- memothon 2y agoUAE maybe?
- JetSpiegel 2y agoPersona non grata that cabinet ministers are clamoring to be "rescued"?
- ImJamal 2y agoHe likely won't go to Russia since he has fought Russia trying the same thing.
- SanjayMehta 2y agoIf Telegram is not end to end encrypted, then intelligence agencies already have the information they claim to be seeking. Therefore the only purpose of this prosecution is to get Durov to toe the line. The fact that this is happening just before the US elections is not a coincidence. Add to this the synchronised anti-Telegram propaganda from BBC, DW, French media. He’s being told to play ball or else.
- janalsncm 2y agoNot sure I understand your reasoning here. It’s illegal to host CSAM and enable organized crime. The fact it wasn’t encrypted just means Telegram doesn’t have plausible deniability.
- SanjayMehta 2y agoMy key point is the synchronised propaganda by western media, and the timing of this action against Telegram. Very convenient. I’m not surprised that I’m being down voted for pointing this out.
- janalsncm 2y agoI don’t know what you mean by “synchronized propaganda”. There’s a lot to dislike about Telegram. They are in the middle of pretty much every kind of illegal activity you can think of. So it’s not true to say that only intelligence agencies could have an interest in taking them down. You are likely being downvoted because your argument contains a hidden but incorrect premise that the only reason a platform CEO would be arrested is for national security reasons. From that (false) premise it would follow that since he isn’t being arrested for national security reasons, his arrest was unjust.
- SanjayMehta 2y agoMike Benz’s take. https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1828918312069128268 https://x.com/tuckercarlson/status/1828918312069128268
- booleanbetrayal 2y agoI'm fairly convinced that the arrest of Pavel Durov on content-moderation related issues is actually an attempt by a NATO state at securing information about adversaries, as it's the most used messaging app by Russian forces in Ukraine. Apparently the Wagner Group had developed their own messaging client, ostensibly for this reason.
- janalsncm 2y ago> it's the most used messaging app by Russian forces in Ukraine Group chats aren’t encrypted so that would be pretty idiotic if true.
- j16sdiz 2y agoThey are encrypted in transit, just not end-to-end encrypted.
- caeril 2y agoExactly. If he's allowed to be free, but banned from leaving the country, FVEY SIGINT can throw their entire bag of tricks against his comms while working remotely. Maybe they can recover keys, infrastructure details, etc. Dude is going to need to build his own SCIF, surrounded by proximity detectors and armed guards, offgrid power generation, fed by quantum-resistant encrypted fiber lines with splice detection alarms in a hurry. Nothing but disdain for FVEY, but this is a solid approach on their part.
- mikewarot 2y agoIt wouldn't surprise me to learn it's the US trying to spy on Ukraine. We don't want to end the gravy train for the Military Industrial Complex with a surprise or cheaper victory, do we?
- csdreamer7 2y ago> actually an attempt by a NATO state at securing information about adversaries Or disrupt their communications and cause chaos in their command structure. If Russia had to actually build it's own app; the corruption in the Russia state would give as strong of a showing as it's broken tanks.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- frank_bb 2y ago[dead]