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Covid-19 Intranasal Vaccine

196 points by stubish 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
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stdclass 2y ago
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- SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
  The covid vaccine I had to take to as a condition to travel and employment has been banned from the market for safety reasons. I swear the true believers will go their graves before they admit “yea, this was all a bit of an over reaction” I’m happy to let everyone make their own decisions, but it’s a big never-again from me. Miss me with your untested drugs, thanks.
  - Krssst 2y ago
    Good luck with untested viruses.
    - DaSHacka 2y ago
      From my anecdotal experience, I think I'll take my chances with COVID, thanks. Never got a cardiovascular condition from COVID, yet did (and it continues to worsen) from the vaccines. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. At a certain point, "oh but statistically more people are worse off from COVID!" doesn't matter much to us as individuals, I think it's okay to act on behalf of my own self-preservation sometimes.
      - shadowgovt 2y ago
        I'm sorry to hear of your ill fortune. If the vaccine has caused you heart damage, that updates the Bayesian priors on whether you would have survived contracting the disease itself. It is entirely possible the vaccine warded off a virus that would have killed your heart if your body had to respond directly to the unattenuated disease. I don't think we have enough information to be able to tell (how do you do an analysis of that kind when you don't even know precisely why COVID or the vaccine can cause heart damage?).
    - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
      What will I do with that 99.97% survival rate? Add more 9s for my age and fitness. But yea ok, better take the experimental drugs now because the screen said to.
  - berdario 2y ago
    > The covid vaccine I had to take to as a condition to travel and employment has been banned from the market for safety reasons. Which one? If you're talking about the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine, you should be gald to know that the suspension was short lived, and around April 2021 it was in the market again. They stopped selling it in 2024, but that's because: 1. we are collectively burying our head in the sand about covid (in the UK it seems we don't even monitor the wastewater covid levels anymore) 2. there are a bunch of other vaccines available, and due to the earlier suspension, people trusted the other vaccines more (and thus it was struggling in the market)
    - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
      No, J&J, remind me, is that allowed on the market again?
      - berdario 2y ago
        Unlike the Oxford-Astrazeneca, there were no concerns that caused it to be suspended, so that's good news for you, I guess. That said, they also stopped selling it: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-roundup-june-2-2023 https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-roun... > requested the voluntary withdrawal of the EUA for this vaccine. Janssen Biotech, Inc. informed the FDA that the last lots of the vaccine purchased by the U.S. Government have expired, there is no demand for new lots of the vaccine in the U.S., and they do not intend to update the strain composition of this vaccine to address emerging variants I'm not well acquainted with practices in the pharmaceutical industry, so it looks a bit weird to me that they would request to withdraw authorisation. I suppose that it might be simpler for them to do so if they know that all remaining doses have expired, rather than risk lawsuits in case that someone might accidentally administer expired doses?
        SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
        There were no concerns, huh? Wow, I guess all the reports about blood clots and then pulling it was just not concerning. I almost think it’s funny. You people will go to your graves before you admit that you were lied to.
  - stouset 2y ago
    > yea, this was all a bit of an over reaction One million, two hundred thousand dead from COVID and counting in the U.S. alone. Nearly 2% of all deaths in this past week were caused by COVID infection. This doesn’t even begin to touch the people who have suffered lifelong consequences from it. Find me any statistic that puts any COVID vaccine within three orders of magnitude of these numbers or (maybe not so) kindly see yourself out.
    - yawpitch 2y ago
      > Find me any statistic that puts any COVID vaccine within three orders of magnitude of these numbers or (maybe not so) kindly see yourself out. Quantitative amen.
    - raverbashing 2y ago
      Exactly this Conspiracy bros failed math hard I'm surprised (in a bad way) when people display limited ability to compare magnitudes. We see this all the time in discussions like clean energy and stuff. Sure, sometimes it is malicious or misinformed. But in general it seems like some people can't do it (hence leading to things like payday loans, failure in managing finances, etc)
    - johnisgood 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - stouset 2y ago
        I am finding it very hard to reply to this post within the HN commenting guidelines, as it is essentially 100% unsubstantiated misinformation. The COVID vaccines did not and do not cause deaths that are recorded as COVID deaths, full stop. A simple and obvious test of this is that there would have been a clear and obvious spike in COVID-related hospitalizations and deaths in locations where the vaccine began to be mass-administered. There is zero evidence of this in the data. In fact, the exact opposite is true. > Plus everyone says it's safe but there was a vaccine that caused some condition 1-2 years post-vaccination, and it was by pure luck they found the connection to the vaccine. This would be a lot more compelling if you could even name this condition. When you manage to figure that out, I will be happy to engage in further critical discussion.
- bojan 2y ago
  How is it turning out?
  - therein 2y ago
    Not good check out /r/vaccinelonghaulers but this will start a whole thread of mess.
  - logicchains 2y ago
    Sadly it wasn't 100% safe like hoped: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38390323/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38390323/ .
    - exo-pla-net 2y ago
      This article was published in an anything-goes journal [1] by a crackpot [2] at a bottom-tier university. At a glance, the article is ranting, not science. An axiom: When the best that dissenters can come up with can't be taken seriously, the dissent only lends credence to the consensus. Accordingly, get your jabs, children. The risk of vaccination is infinitesimal. Meanwhile, long COVID can be a living hell [3]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/labrats/comments/1arhyee/published_2_days_ago_in_frontiers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/labrats/comments/1arhyee/published_... [2] https://x.com/igyartolab https://x.com/igyartolab [3] https://x.com/thephysicsgirl https://x.com/thephysicsgirl
      - stdclass 2y ago
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      - jeffhuys 2y ago
        > The risk of vaccination is infinitesimal. Agreed. But it IS there, and we (at least in the Netherlands) were told it was 100% safe, and you would become unable to spread it. Which were bold-faced lies, and we weren't allowed to talk about that online (literally; read up on the facebook statement yesterday or the day before, about government pressure to "delay" the story). Also, on television nobody was allowed to ask critical questions about it, or they would just get cut off. That's what I don't like, and why I didn't go with it. If they would've been honest, I'd have no problem. But they messed that up, and my trust in the officials of my country is 0 now.
The28thDuck 2y ago
Very cool! Are there other vaccines that have been formulated for mucosal ingestion? What makes that delivery method so effective?
- ZoomerCretin 2y ago
  There's a nasal flu vaccine as well. Theoretically, it's supposed to induce immunity in mucous membranes and prevent infections in the first place, rather than merely reducing symptom severity. As for how effective it actually is at those goals, we'll have to see.
  - pixiemaster 2y ago
    nasal flu is heavily used in scotlands schools, wheee flu vaccination is mandatory.
- roenxi 2y ago
  > What makes that delivery method so effective? This seems like an easy one to guess - your immune system has been developed over a very long time, is highly complex and has layers of defences everywhere that are all a little different. Training it to look for coronavirus in your muscles is less effective against coronaviruses than training it to look for infections in nasal mucus where said virus is actually trying to enter and exit the body.
- bbzealot 2y ago
  There were other similar (ie. nasal) vaccine candidates for COVID, like the Cuban MAMBISA [0], though it seems it never got final approval
- duskwuff 2y ago
  Some canine vaccines against respiratory infections are given as a nasal spray, e.g. https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/nobivac/nobivac-intra-trac3 https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/nobivac/nobivac-intr...
- Amezarak 2y ago
  Your immune system has different "compartments." The mucosal immune compartment produces its own antibodies and its own immune response. The "jab" did not immunize the mucosal immune compartment, so people could and did catch and spread Covid - but they were protected from developing a serious infection because the virus was unable to spread in their body further. As it invades through your respiratory system, vaccinating the mucosal immune compartment means its stopped at the point of entry and does not spread to others or develop into even a mild case.
therein 2y ago
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- kennywinker 2y ago
  What do you mean? No part of this article suggests that this vaccine might be spread in any way.
- ksenzee 2y ago
  This first sentence isn’t really coherent, but I assume what you’re referring to are live attenuated virus vaccines like the oral polio vaccine, and implying that the virus used in this vaccine will end up like cVDPV (circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus). Last year there were ~500 cases of polio worldwide from circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus. That is indeed a problem. But the vaccines have beaten back regular polio (wild-type poliovirus, WPV) to 23 cases total worldwide in 2023. If only we could have problems like that with this covid vaccine.
  - therein 2y ago
    It is coherent enough if you aren't so habituated to mental gymnastics. I stopped trying to convince people online a while ago. Stopped reading when I started seeing what I assume to be WHO statistics. We live in different realities and the pandemic has made us make our peace with it. So there is no discussion to be had. I'll be at the CryFreedomGhetto. [0] [0] https://youtu.be/2--HYvLmrqk https://youtu.be/2--HYvLmrqk
matznerd 2y ago
Pretty impressive, if true that it can stop infection, and potentially then transmission. Nasal vaccines have the ability to do this because of the potental for neutralizing activity along the nasal muscosa. They make the claim so we'll have to see. I currently use a nitric oxide nasal spray as the nose is the major area to protect (and also use probiotic lozenges of the k12 strain for the throat). --- “The vaccine offers potent protection against transmission, prevents reinfection and the spread of the virus, while also reducing the generation of new variants,” Dr Liu said. “Unlike the mRNA vaccine which targets only the spike protein, CDO-7N-1 induces immunity to all major SARS-CoV-2 proteins and is highly effective against all major variants to date. “Importantly, the vaccine remains stable at 4°C for seven months, making it ideal for low- and middle-income countries.” ---
- aaron695 2y ago
  > neutralizing activity along the nasal muscosa. Low humidity drying the nose out seems to be why planes and winter are when SARS-CoV-2 and flus are so contagious. I've been using a generic nasal inhaler when flying, but it's not clear if that would work in practice. > nitric oxide nasal spray as the nose is the major area to protect Reading your comment you would believe a nitric oxide nasal spray would be a good preventative when flying?
  - fffernan 2y ago
    Even better is to wear a mask (not to prevent virus from coming in that's silly air gets around it) but to keep your nasal passages moist during a high altitude flight. Japanese have known this for years and why they wear masks so much.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - abc123abc123 2y ago
      In summary, while wearing a face mask might offer minimal benefits in terms of retaining some moisture around your nasal passages due to breath capture and reduced airflow exposure to dry cabin air, it does not effectively keep them moist during high altitude flights. The primary concern remains that airplane cabins are inherently dry environments that can lead to discomfort regardless of whether one wears a mask. Thus, wearing a face mask will not effectively keep your nasal passages moist during a high altitude flight.
locusofself 2y ago
It sure would have been nice if there was a quality intranasal vaccine that the government could have shipped to each household instead of the insane goose chase that was trying to get vaccine appointments.
- badgersnake 2y ago
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  - moduspol 2y ago
    Some would, but it definitely is a bigger ask of people to have something injected into their bloodstream by a medical professional rather than to just spray something in their nose. I think it'd win over a substantial chunk of the vaccine-hesitant.
    - logicchains 2y ago
      Have you spoken to any vaccine-hesitant? Almost none of them are vaccine-hesitant because they don't like the idea of a needle in their arm; a nasal delivery method would have almost no measurable effect on voluntary uptake.
      - jeffhuys 2y ago
        It IS a more traditional vaccine, though, and less scary because of that. And this is not being pushed to the fullest extent of the law (and a bit above it I think, but nobody can really prove that).
      - moduspol 2y ago
        I don't think they'd say it's because they don't like the idea of a needle in their arm, but for a lot of them, I think it's a significant contributing factor.
      - badgersnake 2y ago
        [flagged]
reify 2y ago
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- RandallBrown 2y ago
  > “This is a live attenuated intranasal vaccine, called CDO-7N-1, designed to be administered intranasally, thereby inducing potential mucosal immunity as well as systemic immunity with just a single dose,” Professor Mahalingam said. Fourth paragraph.
  - rob_c 2y ago
    I'm sorry but thanks for just making my point below for me...
- rob_c 2y ago
  [flagged]
g42gregory 2y ago
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- Jedd 2y ago
  As described in TFA it's a live-attenuated vaccine.
- melagonster 2y ago
  mRNA vaccine is not gene therapy; it does not change gene.
- ornornor 2y ago
  Is mRNA gene therapy? It doesn’t change your genome afaik which actual gene therapy would from my understanding?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- gizmo686 2y ago
  None of the covid vaccines are gene therapies. The mRNA utilizes your cell's machinery to produce proteins. Gene therapy alter's your cells DNA. Having said that, the vaccine in the article is an attenuated virus vaccine, which is even more traditional than J&J (which utilizes a different virus as its delivery mechanism) Sinovac is an inactived vaccine, which probably makes it the most traditional of the set.
  - dtech 2y ago
    >The mRNA utilizes your cell's machinery to produce proteins Does it? I thought the immune response was purely based on the free floating mRNA (which give a high immune response because that also happens during a highly active viral infection)
    - Tor3 2y ago
      No, the mRNA are templates for Covid-19 spike proteins, and the body learns to recognize (and develop an immune response) to said proteins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine
seper8 2y ago
[flagged]
- rob_c 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - seper8 2y ago
    Flagged already... I guess you're right
  - dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
    heresy, blasphemy etc...
temptemptemp111 2y ago
[dead]
fulafel 2y ago
IIRC there were several nasal vaccines at this same stage in development before. Apparently the bottleneck is getting acquired to get enough funding to do the big expensive trials for regulatory approval.
nunobrito 2y ago
[flagged]
- lowdownbutter 2y ago
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  - nunobrito 2y ago
    By all means, please inject yourself to the max. Just allow me to opt-out from such experiments. My body, my choice.
    - Tor3 2y ago
      Your body is also an infection vector for other people's bodies.
      - Aldipower 2y ago
        That does not allow anybody to experiment with others bodies. Think about it.
        Tor3 2y ago
        What experiment? Unlike medicine, vaccines use the body's own mechanism just the way the body itself uses it. By exposing the body to something potentially dangerous, the only difference to "natural" infection is that in the latter case the body will take damage, sometimes incurable damage, before figuring out which proteins belong to the enemy. Vaccines do the same just without, or with way less risk of damage.
        ben_w 2y ago
        Experiments on unconsenting, let alone non-consenting, randoms are bad. Telling people they have to obey health rules of society in order to be part of that society, is universal. Consider why we wear clothes, and that even nudist colonies want members to have a towl for where they sit, in order to prevent what is for everyone else a "just you" problem: skidmarks.
sharptrowel 2y ago
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johnisgood 2y ago
> Twitter formerly known as X Given that X is the new name, should it not be "X formerly known as Twitter"?
- dools 2y ago
  Or just Twitter because X is the dumbest rebrand in history.
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    I know, I was just wondering because my first language is not English. I agree that X is an awful name.
    - alexjm 2y ago
      To your original question, yes. The phrase "formerly known as" comes before the old name.
modeless 2y ago
> up to a year or more So, literally any amount of time?
sethammons 2y ago
> “Unlike the mRNA vaccine which targets only the spike protein, CDO-7N-1 induces immunity to all major SARS-CoV-2 proteins and is highly effective against all major variants to date. > “Importantly, the vaccine remains stable at 4°C for seven months, making it ideal for low- and middle-income countries.” This being a more traditional vaccine, I wonder if any vaccine hold outs will be more receptive
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- 4ninesfine 2y ago
  As a hold out - basically I'm just not going to take it (the vaccine)
  - jbjbjbjb 2y ago
    Do you take any vaccines?
    - johnisgood 2y ago
      Believe it or not, most people who simply question the safety of mRNA vaccines have nothing against vaccines in general. The people who are skeptic with regarding to the mRNA vaccines (or COVID vaccines in general, whatever) are not your typical anti-vaxxers, and it is unfortunate that they are perceived to be.
- jeffhuys 2y ago
  More receptive, yes, but not enough in my case.
  - Sammi 2y ago
    Why?
    - jeffhuys 2y ago
AndrewDucker 2y ago
"in mice, hamsters, and macaques"
yosito 2y ago
This is great! When can I get it?
nottorp 2y ago
> “Importantly, the vaccine remains stable at 4°C for seven months, making it ideal for low- and middle-income countries.” That's it's best feature, not the nasal administration IMO.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  Is it? I think keeping something frozen is easier than cold but not frozen. Can keep a vessel absolutely loaded with dry ice in a set and forget fashion for X days. While keeping something close-to-but-not-frozen requires more active temperature control.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    > for X days It’s about months…
frank_bb 2y ago
[dead]
azangru 2y ago
Don't live-attenuated vaccine viruses evolve, with a potential to restore their original virulence? Example: Sabin's polio vaccine.
big_elephant 2y ago
does anyone know what stage this is in and what the path forward\timeline would be?
johnisgood 2y ago
Is COVID-19 still an issue considering that there has been only 1151 new cases in the US, and 68 in India, and 73 in Germany yesterday? "Only" 7 people died out of these 1151 people in the US, and we do not know the details, I am assuming old age, compromised immune system, comorbidity, etc.
- Terretta 2y ago
  > “Is COVID-19 still an issue…?” Should we devote any time or effort on what to do about the 400 million people affected by long COVID worldwide, with an economic impact of $1 trillion annually? Is death the only symptom of concern? If the risk of developing long COVID rises with each new infection, is it clear that we can socially and economically afford to ignore it as new variants continue to spread? How might we reconcile the push to move on, with the reality of millions experiencing debilitating symptoms, some lasting years or even a lifetime? If long COVID can hit anyone, even the young or those with mild initial infections, should we be carrying on under the otherwise useful presumption it's not an ongoing threat? Whose interests does it serve for governments to be acting as if this problem has gone away, or the opposite? Article here: https://fortune.com/well/article/long-covid-cost-1-trillion-treatment-cure/ https://fortune.com/well/article/long-covid-cost-1-trillion-...
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    My Government sure loves milking the EU for money to "fight" long COVID.
inglor_cz 2y ago
There was talk about intranasal vaccines against Covid in 2020 already. But there was a catch: they need to be tested really, really well. Anything that gets snorted into your nose has a pretty short path to the brain, with potentially "interesting" results (cocaine, Naegleria fowleri etc.). So you have to be extra sure that your intranasal medication is harmless. As the article mentions, this particular vaccine has been developed for four years. That seems to be long enough to be sure. But I wouldn't be taking it back in 2021 or 2022.
- MostlyStable 2y ago
  So given that this is an attenuated live virus vaccine, and the way that one gets covid and other viruses is often through the nose/mucous membranes in the nose, what would be the fear above and beyond getting a virus? I'm not advocating for not testing it obviously, I just don't quite see why we should have an especially high vigilance in this case.

196 points by stubish 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

stdclass 2y ago

[flagged]

SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
The covid vaccine I had to take to as a condition to travel and employment has been banned from the market for safety reasons. I swear the true believers will go their graves before they admit “yea, this was all a bit of an over reaction” I’m happy to let everyone make their own decisions, but it’s a big never-again from me. Miss me with your untested drugs, thanks.
- Krssst 2y ago
  Good luck with untested viruses.
  - DaSHacka 2y ago
    From my anecdotal experience, I think I'll take my chances with COVID, thanks. Never got a cardiovascular condition from COVID, yet did (and it continues to worsen) from the vaccines. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. At a certain point, "oh but statistically more people are worse off from COVID!" doesn't matter much to us as individuals, I think it's okay to act on behalf of my own self-preservation sometimes.
    - shadowgovt 2y ago
      I'm sorry to hear of your ill fortune. If the vaccine has caused you heart damage, that updates the Bayesian priors on whether you would have survived contracting the disease itself. It is entirely possible the vaccine warded off a virus that would have killed your heart if your body had to respond directly to the unattenuated disease. I don't think we have enough information to be able to tell (how do you do an analysis of that kind when you don't even know precisely why COVID or the vaccine can cause heart damage?).
  - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
    What will I do with that 99.97% survival rate? Add more 9s for my age and fitness. But yea ok, better take the experimental drugs now because the screen said to.
- berdario 2y ago
  > The covid vaccine I had to take to as a condition to travel and employment has been banned from the market for safety reasons. Which one? If you're talking about the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine, you should be gald to know that the suspension was short lived, and around April 2021 it was in the market again. They stopped selling it in 2024, but that's because: 1. we are collectively burying our head in the sand about covid (in the UK it seems we don't even monitor the wastewater covid levels anymore) 2. there are a bunch of other vaccines available, and due to the earlier suspension, people trusted the other vaccines more (and thus it was struggling in the market)
  - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
    No, J&J, remind me, is that allowed on the market again?
    - berdario 2y ago
      Unlike the Oxford-Astrazeneca, there were no concerns that caused it to be suspended, so that's good news for you, I guess. That said, they also stopped selling it: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-roundup-june-2-2023 https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-roun... > requested the voluntary withdrawal of the EUA for this vaccine. Janssen Biotech, Inc. informed the FDA that the last lots of the vaccine purchased by the U.S. Government have expired, there is no demand for new lots of the vaccine in the U.S., and they do not intend to update the strain composition of this vaccine to address emerging variants I'm not well acquainted with practices in the pharmaceutical industry, so it looks a bit weird to me that they would request to withdraw authorisation. I suppose that it might be simpler for them to do so if they know that all remaining doses have expired, rather than risk lawsuits in case that someone might accidentally administer expired doses?
      - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
        There were no concerns, huh? Wow, I guess all the reports about blood clots and then pulling it was just not concerning. I almost think it’s funny. You people will go to your graves before you admit that you were lied to.
- stouset 2y ago
  > yea, this was all a bit of an over reaction One million, two hundred thousand dead from COVID and counting in the U.S. alone. Nearly 2% of all deaths in this past week were caused by COVID infection. This doesn’t even begin to touch the people who have suffered lifelong consequences from it. Find me any statistic that puts any COVID vaccine within three orders of magnitude of these numbers or (maybe not so) kindly see yourself out.
  - yawpitch 2y ago
    > Find me any statistic that puts any COVID vaccine within three orders of magnitude of these numbers or (maybe not so) kindly see yourself out. Quantitative amen.
  - raverbashing 2y ago
    Exactly this Conspiracy bros failed math hard I'm surprised (in a bad way) when people display limited ability to compare magnitudes. We see this all the time in discussions like clean energy and stuff. Sure, sometimes it is malicious or misinformed. But in general it seems like some people can't do it (hence leading to things like payday loans, failure in managing finances, etc)
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - stouset 2y ago
      I am finding it very hard to reply to this post within the HN commenting guidelines, as it is essentially 100% unsubstantiated misinformation. The COVID vaccines did not and do not cause deaths that are recorded as COVID deaths, full stop. A simple and obvious test of this is that there would have been a clear and obvious spike in COVID-related hospitalizations and deaths in locations where the vaccine began to be mass-administered. There is zero evidence of this in the data. In fact, the exact opposite is true. > Plus everyone says it's safe but there was a vaccine that caused some condition 1-2 years post-vaccination, and it was by pure luck they found the connection to the vaccine. This would be a lot more compelling if you could even name this condition. When you manage to figure that out, I will be happy to engage in further critical discussion.
bojan 2y ago
How is it turning out?
- therein 2y ago
  Not good check out /r/vaccinelonghaulers but this will start a whole thread of mess.
- logicchains 2y ago
  Sadly it wasn't 100% safe like hoped: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38390323/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38390323/ .
  - exo-pla-net 2y ago
    This article was published in an anything-goes journal [1] by a crackpot [2] at a bottom-tier university. At a glance, the article is ranting, not science. An axiom: When the best that dissenters can come up with can't be taken seriously, the dissent only lends credence to the consensus. Accordingly, get your jabs, children. The risk of vaccination is infinitesimal. Meanwhile, long COVID can be a living hell [3]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/labrats/comments/1arhyee/published_2_days_ago_in_frontiers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/labrats/comments/1arhyee/published_... [2] https://x.com/igyartolab https://x.com/igyartolab [3] https://x.com/thephysicsgirl https://x.com/thephysicsgirl
    - stdclass 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - jeffhuys 2y ago
      > The risk of vaccination is infinitesimal. Agreed. But it IS there, and we (at least in the Netherlands) were told it was 100% safe, and you would become unable to spread it. Which were bold-faced lies, and we weren't allowed to talk about that online (literally; read up on the facebook statement yesterday or the day before, about government pressure to "delay" the story). Also, on television nobody was allowed to ask critical questions about it, or they would just get cut off. That's what I don't like, and why I didn't go with it. If they would've been honest, I'd have no problem. But they messed that up, and my trust in the officials of my country is 0 now.

The28thDuck 2y ago

Very cool! Are there other vaccines that have been formulated for mucosal ingestion? What makes that delivery method so effective?

ZoomerCretin 2y ago
There's a nasal flu vaccine as well. Theoretically, it's supposed to induce immunity in mucous membranes and prevent infections in the first place, rather than merely reducing symptom severity. As for how effective it actually is at those goals, we'll have to see.
- pixiemaster 2y ago
  nasal flu is heavily used in scotlands schools, wheee flu vaccination is mandatory.
roenxi 2y ago
> What makes that delivery method so effective? This seems like an easy one to guess - your immune system has been developed over a very long time, is highly complex and has layers of defences everywhere that are all a little different. Training it to look for coronavirus in your muscles is less effective against coronaviruses than training it to look for infections in nasal mucus where said virus is actually trying to enter and exit the body.
bbzealot 2y ago
There were other similar (ie. nasal) vaccine candidates for COVID, like the Cuban MAMBISA [0], though it seems it never got final approval
duskwuff 2y ago
Some canine vaccines against respiratory infections are given as a nasal spray, e.g. https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/nobivac/nobivac-intra-trac3 https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/nobivac/nobivac-intr...
Amezarak 2y ago
Your immune system has different "compartments." The mucosal immune compartment produces its own antibodies and its own immune response. The "jab" did not immunize the mucosal immune compartment, so people could and did catch and spread Covid - but they were protected from developing a serious infection because the virus was unable to spread in their body further. As it invades through your respiratory system, vaccinating the mucosal immune compartment means its stopped at the point of entry and does not spread to others or develop into even a mild case.

therein 2y ago

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kennywinker 2y ago
What do you mean? No part of this article suggests that this vaccine might be spread in any way.
ksenzee 2y ago
This first sentence isn’t really coherent, but I assume what you’re referring to are live attenuated virus vaccines like the oral polio vaccine, and implying that the virus used in this vaccine will end up like cVDPV (circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus). Last year there were ~500 cases of polio worldwide from circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus. That is indeed a problem. But the vaccines have beaten back regular polio (wild-type poliovirus, WPV) to 23 cases total worldwide in 2023. If only we could have problems like that with this covid vaccine.
- therein 2y ago
  It is coherent enough if you aren't so habituated to mental gymnastics. I stopped trying to convince people online a while ago. Stopped reading when I started seeing what I assume to be WHO statistics. We live in different realities and the pandemic has made us make our peace with it. So there is no discussion to be had. I'll be at the CryFreedomGhetto. [0] [0] https://youtu.be/2--HYvLmrqk https://youtu.be/2--HYvLmrqk

matznerd 2y ago

Pretty impressive, if true that it can stop infection, and potentially then transmission. Nasal vaccines have the ability to do this because of the potental for neutralizing activity along the nasal muscosa. They make the claim so we'll have to see. I currently use a nitric oxide nasal spray as the nose is the major area to protect (and also use probiotic lozenges of the k12 strain for the throat). --- “The vaccine offers potent protection against transmission, prevents reinfection and the spread of the virus, while also reducing the generation of new variants,” Dr Liu said. “Unlike the mRNA vaccine which targets only the spike protein, CDO-7N-1 induces immunity to all major SARS-CoV-2 proteins and is highly effective against all major variants to date. “Importantly, the vaccine remains stable at 4°C for seven months, making it ideal for low- and middle-income countries.” ---

aaron695 2y ago
> neutralizing activity along the nasal muscosa. Low humidity drying the nose out seems to be why planes and winter are when SARS-CoV-2 and flus are so contagious. I've been using a generic nasal inhaler when flying, but it's not clear if that would work in practice. > nitric oxide nasal spray as the nose is the major area to protect Reading your comment you would believe a nitric oxide nasal spray would be a good preventative when flying?
- fffernan 2y ago
  Even better is to wear a mask (not to prevent virus from coming in that's silly air gets around it) but to keep your nasal passages moist during a high altitude flight. Japanese have known this for years and why they wear masks so much.
  - deleted 2y ago
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  - abc123abc123 2y ago
    In summary, while wearing a face mask might offer minimal benefits in terms of retaining some moisture around your nasal passages due to breath capture and reduced airflow exposure to dry cabin air, it does not effectively keep them moist during high altitude flights. The primary concern remains that airplane cabins are inherently dry environments that can lead to discomfort regardless of whether one wears a mask. Thus, wearing a face mask will not effectively keep your nasal passages moist during a high altitude flight.

locusofself 2y ago

It sure would have been nice if there was a quality intranasal vaccine that the government could have shipped to each household instead of the insane goose chase that was trying to get vaccine appointments.

badgersnake 2y ago
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- moduspol 2y ago
  Some would, but it definitely is a bigger ask of people to have something injected into their bloodstream by a medical professional rather than to just spray something in their nose. I think it'd win over a substantial chunk of the vaccine-hesitant.
  - logicchains 2y ago
    Have you spoken to any vaccine-hesitant? Almost none of them are vaccine-hesitant because they don't like the idea of a needle in their arm; a nasal delivery method would have almost no measurable effect on voluntary uptake.
    - jeffhuys 2y ago
      It IS a more traditional vaccine, though, and less scary because of that. And this is not being pushed to the fullest extent of the law (and a bit above it I think, but nobody can really prove that).
    - moduspol 2y ago
      I don't think they'd say it's because they don't like the idea of a needle in their arm, but for a lot of them, I think it's a significant contributing factor.
    - badgersnake 2y ago
      [flagged]

reify 2y ago

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RandallBrown 2y ago
> “This is a live attenuated intranasal vaccine, called CDO-7N-1, designed to be administered intranasally, thereby inducing potential mucosal immunity as well as systemic immunity with just a single dose,” Professor Mahalingam said. Fourth paragraph.
- rob_c 2y ago
  I'm sorry but thanks for just making my point below for me...
rob_c 2y ago
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g42gregory 2y ago

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Jedd 2y ago
As described in TFA it's a live-attenuated vaccine.
melagonster 2y ago
mRNA vaccine is not gene therapy; it does not change gene.
ornornor 2y ago
Is mRNA gene therapy? It doesn’t change your genome afaik which actual gene therapy would from my understanding?
deleted 2y ago
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gizmo686 2y ago
None of the covid vaccines are gene therapies. The mRNA utilizes your cell's machinery to produce proteins. Gene therapy alter's your cells DNA. Having said that, the vaccine in the article is an attenuated virus vaccine, which is even more traditional than J&J (which utilizes a different virus as its delivery mechanism) Sinovac is an inactived vaccine, which probably makes it the most traditional of the set.
- dtech 2y ago
  >The mRNA utilizes your cell's machinery to produce proteins Does it? I thought the immune response was purely based on the free floating mRNA (which give a high immune response because that also happens during a highly active viral infection)
  - Tor3 2y ago
    No, the mRNA are templates for Covid-19 spike proteins, and the body learns to recognize (and develop an immune response) to said proteins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine

seper8 2y ago

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rob_c 2y ago
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- seper8 2y ago
  Flagged already... I guess you're right
- dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
  heresy, blasphemy etc...

temptemptemp111 2y ago

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fulafel 2y ago

IIRC there were several nasal vaccines at this same stage in development before. Apparently the bottleneck is getting acquired to get enough funding to do the big expensive trials for regulatory approval.

nunobrito 2y ago

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lowdownbutter 2y ago
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- nunobrito 2y ago
  By all means, please inject yourself to the max. Just allow me to opt-out from such experiments. My body, my choice.
  - Tor3 2y ago
    Your body is also an infection vector for other people's bodies.
    - Aldipower 2y ago
      That does not allow anybody to experiment with others bodies. Think about it.
      - Tor3 2y ago
        What experiment? Unlike medicine, vaccines use the body's own mechanism just the way the body itself uses it. By exposing the body to something potentially dangerous, the only difference to "natural" infection is that in the latter case the body will take damage, sometimes incurable damage, before figuring out which proteins belong to the enemy. Vaccines do the same just without, or with way less risk of damage.
      - ben_w 2y ago
        Experiments on unconsenting, let alone non-consenting, randoms are bad. Telling people they have to obey health rules of society in order to be part of that society, is universal. Consider why we wear clothes, and that even nudist colonies want members to have a towl for where they sit, in order to prevent what is for everyone else a "just you" problem: skidmarks.

sharptrowel 2y ago

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johnisgood 2y ago

> Twitter formerly known as X Given that X is the new name, should it not be "X formerly known as Twitter"?

dools 2y ago
Or just Twitter because X is the dumbest rebrand in history.
- johnisgood 2y ago
  I know, I was just wondering because my first language is not English. I agree that X is an awful name.
  - alexjm 2y ago
    To your original question, yes. The phrase "formerly known as" comes before the old name.

modeless 2y ago

> up to a year or more So, literally any amount of time?

sethammons 2y ago

> “Unlike the mRNA vaccine which targets only the spike protein, CDO-7N-1 induces immunity to all major SARS-CoV-2 proteins and is highly effective against all major variants to date. > “Importantly, the vaccine remains stable at 4°C for seven months, making it ideal for low- and middle-income countries.” This being a more traditional vaccine, I wonder if any vaccine hold outs will be more receptive

deleted 2y ago
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4ninesfine 2y ago
As a hold out - basically I'm just not going to take it (the vaccine)
- jbjbjbjb 2y ago
  Do you take any vaccines?
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    Believe it or not, most people who simply question the safety of mRNA vaccines have nothing against vaccines in general. The people who are skeptic with regarding to the mRNA vaccines (or COVID vaccines in general, whatever) are not your typical anti-vaxxers, and it is unfortunate that they are perceived to be.
jeffhuys 2y ago
More receptive, yes, but not enough in my case.
- Sammi 2y ago
  Why?
  - jeffhuys 2y ago

AndrewDucker 2y ago

"in mice, hamsters, and macaques"

yosito 2y ago

This is great! When can I get it?

nottorp 2y ago

> “Importantly, the vaccine remains stable at 4°C for seven months, making it ideal for low- and middle-income countries.” That's it's best feature, not the nasal administration IMO.

Scoundreller 2y ago
Is it? I think keeping something frozen is easier than cold but not frozen. Can keep a vessel absolutely loaded with dry ice in a set and forget fashion for X days. While keeping something close-to-but-not-frozen requires more active temperature control.
- nottorp 2y ago
  > for X days It’s about months…

frank_bb 2y ago

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azangru 2y ago

Don't live-attenuated vaccine viruses evolve, with a potential to restore their original virulence? Example: Sabin's polio vaccine.

big_elephant 2y ago

does anyone know what stage this is in and what the path forward\timeline would be?

johnisgood 2y ago

Is COVID-19 still an issue considering that there has been only 1151 new cases in the US, and 68 in India, and 73 in Germany yesterday? "Only" 7 people died out of these 1151 people in the US, and we do not know the details, I am assuming old age, compromised immune system, comorbidity, etc.

Terretta 2y ago
> “Is COVID-19 still an issue…?” Should we devote any time or effort on what to do about the 400 million people affected by long COVID worldwide, with an economic impact of $1 trillion annually? Is death the only symptom of concern? If the risk of developing long COVID rises with each new infection, is it clear that we can socially and economically afford to ignore it as new variants continue to spread? How might we reconcile the push to move on, with the reality of millions experiencing debilitating symptoms, some lasting years or even a lifetime? If long COVID can hit anyone, even the young or those with mild initial infections, should we be carrying on under the otherwise useful presumption it's not an ongoing threat? Whose interests does it serve for governments to be acting as if this problem has gone away, or the opposite? Article here: https://fortune.com/well/article/long-covid-cost-1-trillion-treatment-cure/ https://fortune.com/well/article/long-covid-cost-1-trillion-...
- johnisgood 2y ago
  My Government sure loves milking the EU for money to "fight" long COVID.

inglor_cz 2y ago

There was talk about intranasal vaccines against Covid in 2020 already. But there was a catch: they need to be tested really, really well. Anything that gets snorted into your nose has a pretty short path to the brain, with potentially "interesting" results (cocaine, Naegleria fowleri etc.). So you have to be extra sure that your intranasal medication is harmless. As the article mentions, this particular vaccine has been developed for four years. That seems to be long enough to be sure. But I wouldn't be taking it back in 2021 or 2022.

MostlyStable 2y ago
So given that this is an attenuated live virus vaccine, and the way that one gets covid and other viruses is often through the nose/mucous membranes in the nose, what would be the fear above and beyond getting a virus? I'm not advocating for not testing it obviously, I just don't quite see why we should have an especially high vigilance in this case.