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Translated by @fs0c131y on Twitter - Complicity - Administration of an online platform to allow an illegal transaction in an organised band, - Refusal to comm

Translated by @fs0c131y on Twitter - Complicity - Administration of an online platform to allow an illegal transaction in an organised band, - Refusal to communicate, at the request of the authorised authorities, the information or documents necessary for the realisation and exploitation of interceptions authorised by law, - Complicity - Detention of the image of a minor of a child-pornographic nature, - Complicity - Dissemination, offer or making available in an organised tape of images of a minor of a pornographic nature, - Complicity - Acquisition, transport, holding, offer or disposal of narcotic products, - Complicity - Offer, assignment or making available without legitimate reason of equipment, an instrument, a program or data designed or adapted for the attack and access to the operation of an automated data processing system, - Complicity - Organised gang scam, - Association of criminals with a view to committing a crime or offence punishable by 5 years of imprisonment at least, - Money laundering of crimes or offences in organised gangs, - Provision of cryptology services to ensure confidentiality functions without a declaration of conformity, - Provision of a cryptological means not exclusively ensuring authentication or integrity control functions without prior declaration, - Import of a cryptology means that does not exclusively perform authentication or integrity control functions without prior declaration.

smt88 2y ago
This seems to confirm speculation that Durov himself is not accused of committing these crimes, but rather than Telegram didn't do enough to prevent criminals from using it in the commission of crimes. The only exception (maybe?) is the money laundering, which seems to be a direct accusation against Durov. It's also fascinating that they also seem to be nailing him for failing to disclose the limitations of Telegram's cryptography.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- hn1986 2y ago
  If you manage a message board with illegal activity and don't do anything to take stuff down, you're going to jail. see all the people in the jail who managed sites selling drugs/weapons on Tor. Even worse if it's CSAM like Telegram was doing.
  - smt88 2y ago
    There are public subreddits about drugs, prostitution, and suicide assistance. Presumably the main issue here is whether Telegram was cooperating with law enforcement, but maybe I'm missing something.
    - hn1986 2y ago
      That's exactly it but the key differentiator is CSAM is the main and most dangerous one. Reddit doesn't have these problems with CSAM. That's what makes him indefensible. "failing to perform even basic content enforcement on public channels, with instances of known CSAM being detected and reported by our ingest systems".
Ennea 2y ago
The PDF comes with an English version, too. It's on pages 3 and 4 :)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  Ah, I had just seen screenshots of the first 2 pages and then saw the title posted here.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cube2222 2y ago
Those last three are pretty concerning, I don't really understand what they mean: > - Providing cryptology services aiming to ensure confidentiality without certified declaration, > - Providing a cryptology tool not solely ensuring authentication or integrity monitoring without prior declaration, > - Importing a cryptology tool ensuring authentication or integrity monitoring without prior declaration. What does "without certified declaration" mean? The others are pretty non-surprising, if the comms were unencrypted and the company refused to cooperate.
- Hizonner 2y ago
  France has at least theoretically had a licencing/declaration/whatever regime for all cryptography software since forever. Presumably they rarely enforce it, but I remember when they passed it. I think it was supposed to involve key-disclosure back doors somehow.
  - codedokode 2y ago
    I wonder, did Google and Mozilla properly certified the cryptogrpahic tools they distribute? And Github is probably the worst offender, hosting thousands of uncertified, illegal cryptographic tools.
    - mdhb 2y ago
      Notably they didn’t run perhaps the worlds most popular child porn distribution network at the same time and didn’t have it all over their devices.
- pera 2y ago
  First time I hear about this as well and I'm not sure if I understand this correctly (because it's in French :p) but it sounds like if your software uses cryptography and you have French users then you need to submit a declaration to some French authority: https://forums.developer.apple.com/forums/thread/741830 https://forums.developer.apple.com/forums/thread/741830
layer8 2y ago
Pages 3-4 of the PDF contain an English version with a non-identical translation: “Pavel DUROV, founder and CEO of instant messaging and platform TELEGRAM, was arrested at Le Bourget airport in the outskirts of Paris on Saturday, the 24th of August 2024, then taken into police custody at 8 p.m. This measure comes in the context of a judicial investigation opened the 8th of July 2024, following a preliminary inquiry initiated by Section J3 - JUNALCO (Fight against Cybercrime) of the Paris Public Prosecutor’s Office. This judicial investigation was opened against person unnamed, on charges of: - Complicity – web-mastering an online platform in order to enable an illegal transaction in organized group, - Refusal to communicate, at the request of competent authorities, information or documents necessary for carrying out and operating interceptions allowed by law, - Complicity – possessing pornographic images of minors, - Complicity - distributing, offering or making available pornographic images of minors, in organized group, - Complicity - acquiring, transporting, possessing, offering or selling narcotic substances, - Complicity - offering, selling or making available, without legitimate reason, equipment, tools, programs or data designed for or adapted to get access to and to damage the operation of an automated data processing system, - Complicity – organized fraud, - Criminal association with a view to committing a crime or an offense punishable by 5 or more years of imprisonment, - Laundering of the proceeds derived from organized group’s offences and crimes, - Providing cryptology services aiming to ensure confidentiality without certified declaration, - Providing a cryptology tool not solely ensuring authentication or integrity monitoring without prior declaration, - Importing a cryptology tool ensuring authentication or integrity monitoring without prior declaration. The investigative magistrates in charge of this preliminary judicial investigation have requested a co-referral of the Centre for the Fight against Cybercrime (Centre de lutte contre les criminalités numériques, C3N) and the Anti-Fraud National Office (Office National Anti-Fraude, ONAF) for the pursuance of the investigations. It is within this procedural framework in which Pavel DUROV was questioned by the investigators. The custody period was extended until the 25th August 2024 by an investigative magistrate and can last up to 96 hours (that being the 28th August 2024) given the applicable procedure for organized crime offences, as referred to above.”
hn1986 2y ago
> Complicity - Detention of the image of a minor of a child-pornographic nature Yikes. He's done. If you administer a message board (whether in open-web, dark web or an app) and your board gets overrun with CSAM and you don't take down CSAM after being reported repeatedly, you're going to go to jail. Simple as that.
- octacat 2y ago
  Which means any board could be nuked with bots... Kinda reminds me how opposition media got nuked from VK using a similar tactics. Could probably used against hashtags on Twitter.
voytec 2y ago
> Translated It's on page 3 in English.
belter 2y ago
> Translated by @fs0c131y on Twitter The court press release pag 3 and 4 are in English....
331c8c71 2y ago
Complicity accusations seem to be a stretch. I am not sure if it is the same in French law but according to Wikipedia: > For two persons to be complicit in a crime that does not involve negligence, they must share the same criminal intent; "there must be a community of purpose, partnership in the unlawful undertaking".

smt88 2y ago

This seems to confirm speculation that Durov himself is not accused of committing these crimes, but rather than Telegram didn't do enough to prevent criminals from using it in the commission of crimes. The only exception (maybe?) is the money laundering, which seems to be a direct accusation against Durov. It's also fascinating that they also seem to be nailing him for failing to disclose the limitations of Telegram's cryptography.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
hn1986 2y ago
If you manage a message board with illegal activity and don't do anything to take stuff down, you're going to jail. see all the people in the jail who managed sites selling drugs/weapons on Tor. Even worse if it's CSAM like Telegram was doing.
- smt88 2y ago
  There are public subreddits about drugs, prostitution, and suicide assistance. Presumably the main issue here is whether Telegram was cooperating with law enforcement, but maybe I'm missing something.
  - hn1986 2y ago
    That's exactly it but the key differentiator is CSAM is the main and most dangerous one. Reddit doesn't have these problems with CSAM. That's what makes him indefensible. "failing to perform even basic content enforcement on public channels, with instances of known CSAM being detected and reported by our ingest systems".

Ennea 2y ago

The PDF comes with an English version, too. It's on pages 3 and 4 :)

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
anigbrowl 2y ago
Ah, I had just seen screenshots of the first 2 pages and then saw the title posted here.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

cube2222 2y ago

Those last three are pretty concerning, I don't really understand what they mean: > - Providing cryptology services aiming to ensure confidentiality without certified declaration, > - Providing a cryptology tool not solely ensuring authentication or integrity monitoring without prior declaration, > - Importing a cryptology tool ensuring authentication or integrity monitoring without prior declaration. What does "without certified declaration" mean? The others are pretty non-surprising, if the comms were unencrypted and the company refused to cooperate.

Hizonner 2y ago
France has at least theoretically had a licencing/declaration/whatever regime for all cryptography software since forever. Presumably they rarely enforce it, but I remember when they passed it. I think it was supposed to involve key-disclosure back doors somehow.
- codedokode 2y ago
  I wonder, did Google and Mozilla properly certified the cryptogrpahic tools they distribute? And Github is probably the worst offender, hosting thousands of uncertified, illegal cryptographic tools.
  - mdhb 2y ago
    Notably they didn’t run perhaps the worlds most popular child porn distribution network at the same time and didn’t have it all over their devices.
pera 2y ago
First time I hear about this as well and I'm not sure if I understand this correctly (because it's in French :p) but it sounds like if your software uses cryptography and you have French users then you need to submit a declaration to some French authority: https://forums.developer.apple.com/forums/thread/741830 https://forums.developer.apple.com/forums/thread/741830

layer8 2y ago

Pages 3-4 of the PDF contain an English version with a non-identical translation: “Pavel DUROV, founder and CEO of instant messaging and platform TELEGRAM, was arrested at Le Bourget airport in the outskirts of Paris on Saturday, the 24th of August 2024, then taken into police custody at 8 p.m. This measure comes in the context of a judicial investigation opened the 8th of July 2024, following a preliminary inquiry initiated by Section J3 - JUNALCO (Fight against Cybercrime) of the Paris Public Prosecutor’s Office. This judicial investigation was opened against person unnamed, on charges of: - Complicity – web-mastering an online platform in order to enable an illegal transaction in organized group, - Refusal to communicate, at the request of competent authorities, information or documents necessary for carrying out and operating interceptions allowed by law, - Complicity – possessing pornographic images of minors, - Complicity - distributing, offering or making available pornographic images of minors, in organized group, - Complicity - acquiring, transporting, possessing, offering or selling narcotic substances, - Complicity - offering, selling or making available, without legitimate reason, equipment, tools, programs or data designed for or adapted to get access to and to damage the operation of an automated data processing system, - Complicity – organized fraud, - Criminal association with a view to committing a crime or an offense punishable by 5 or more years of imprisonment, - Laundering of the proceeds derived from organized group’s offences and crimes, - Providing cryptology services aiming to ensure confidentiality without certified declaration, - Providing a cryptology tool not solely ensuring authentication or integrity monitoring without prior declaration, - Importing a cryptology tool ensuring authentication or integrity monitoring without prior declaration. The investigative magistrates in charge of this preliminary judicial investigation have requested a co-referral of the Centre for the Fight against Cybercrime (Centre de lutte contre les criminalités numériques, C3N) and the Anti-Fraud National Office (Office National Anti-Fraude, ONAF) for the pursuance of the investigations. It is within this procedural framework in which Pavel DUROV was questioned by the investigators. The custody period was extended until the 25th August 2024 by an investigative magistrate and can last up to 96 hours (that being the 28th August 2024) given the applicable procedure for organized crime offences, as referred to above.”

hn1986 2y ago

> Complicity - Detention of the image of a minor of a child-pornographic nature Yikes. He's done. If you administer a message board (whether in open-web, dark web or an app) and your board gets overrun with CSAM and you don't take down CSAM after being reported repeatedly, you're going to go to jail. Simple as that.

octacat 2y ago
Which means any board could be nuked with bots... Kinda reminds me how opposition media got nuked from VK using a similar tactics. Could probably used against hashtags on Twitter.

voytec 2y ago

> Translated It's on page 3 in English.

belter 2y ago

> Translated by @fs0c131y on Twitter The court press release pag 3 and 4 are in English....

331c8c71 2y ago

Complicity accusations seem to be a stretch. I am not sure if it is the same in French law but according to Wikipedia: > For two persons to be complicit in a crime that does not involve negligence, they must share the same criminal intent; "there must be a community of purpose, partnership in the unlawful undertaking".