4 ms·

Whenever I hear the term "pig butchering scam" I struggle to distinguish it from the plain term "scam". Like, as far as I can tell it is simply called "pig butc

Whenever I hear the term "pig butchering scam" I struggle to distinguish it from the plain term "scam". Like, as far as I can tell it is simply called "pig butchering" because of the imagery of fattening a pig before slaughtering it. But I feel like in the past we would normally just call it a "long con", perhaps. This sort of thing has existed for a long time, but this term makes it sound like something that is new or novel. Feels like the media is doing a bit of... "headline engineering", here.

TillE 2y ago
Yeah the scam itself is not meaningfully distinguishable from eg the good old Nigerian Prince emails. But the distinctive characteristic of the new model is to operate at large scale with human trafficking.
drwl 2y ago
yeah I'm with you there. Pig butchering scam [1] is just a simple con, not sure why they're attributing any importance to the name of it [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam
- wcarss 2y ago
  evocative imagery gets clicks
  - ihumanable 2y ago
    This is the correct answer. News loves the term because it's eye catching and clearly not informative, that's why every article has to explain it.
jcrawfordor 2y ago
the term "pig butchering" originates in Chinese (杀猪盘), where this particular style of scam is often targeted at overseas people via WhatsApp. So "pig butchering" refers specifically to these scams run from China (or elsewhere in the region by Chinese operations), and it's what the scammers themselves call it. One of the distinguishing features is that they're often run by fairly large, organized operations with paid, trafficked, or otherwise long-term staff manning the WhatsApp personas. Similar to Indian call center scams. Much like how "419" or "Nigerian prince" refers to scams coming out of a specific region.
- deaddodo 2y ago
  > Much like how "419" or "Nigerian prince" refers to scams coming out of a specific region. 419 refers more to a type of scam than a region. In some ways, it's almost synonymous with "online scam" these days. The name simply originates with Nigeria, and continues to associate with it due to the sheer scale of online scams coming out of the region.
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    "419" refers to the Nigerian criminal code section which defines the type of scam: <https://web.archive.org/web/20050308040611/http://www.nigeria-law.org/Criminal%20Code%20Act-Part%20VI%20%20to%20the%20end.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20050308040611/http://www.nigeri...> Much as with other toponyms, the origins are in fact region-specific, though the term has become more general with time. The generic term is "advanced-fee scam": <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam>
    - deaddodo 2y ago
      > the name simply originates with Nigeria Maybe ingest the entire comment you're replying to first. Especially if you're simply going to agree with me in the very next point: > though the term has become more general with time
- kccqzy 2y ago
  I still don't get it. Is pig butchering a common phrase in Chinese to refer to scams? I believe the phrase, even in its original Chinese language, was only invented recently (Wikipedia says 2016). That doesn't answer the question of why this particular phrase was invented.
  - kurthr 2y ago
    Because, this is how the scammers described themselves, in Mandarin using colorful language.
  - 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jiggawatts 2y ago
Pig butchering is not just something that goes on in an abattoir, in many countries it's like a mini-festival. The idea is that in winter months each household butchers their pig, everyone turns up and gets fed. Then next week it's someone else's turn in the village to butcher their pig. Before refrigeration this was a great way to have meat regularly without needing to preserve all of it. The image that this evokes in the minds of people that have experienced this is a big barbecue where various cuts of meat are feasted upon for a long time, maybe all day. It's a joyous event of unbridled gluttony. The guests must consume all of the un-preservable meat right away, which means if you attend one of these events you get to stuff your face with delicious, delicious pork for several meals, not just one. To understand the origin of the "pig butchering" scam name, consider that most scams are one-offs. The scammer tricks the victim, the victim loses maybe a few thousand dollars, and learns "not to do that again". With pig butchering, the victim is tricked into feeding their money repeatedly into a fake "investment" application, which allows the scammer to "feast" on them for a long time, like at a pig butchering event. Similarly, many long-cons take time to set up, but are still one-off thefts. That's not the same as convincing someone to repeatedly put thousands of dollars into the stealing machine.
- vsuperpower2021 2y ago
  This still doesn't make sense. The connection between "feasting all day on a pig" and what you've described is non-existent.
  - segmondy 2y ago
    Yup, the fattening of the pig is "fattening the scammer's wallet". To gain maximum meat, you must keep feeding the pig, to gain the most, the scammer must keep the victim on the hook for as long as possible. The slaughter is the going all in to end the scam. Either by asking for all the remaining money if possible or terminating it when the victim is broken.
norgie 2y ago
Come on, I think you're just looking for things to get upset about (and not engaging with the content in any meaningful way). Assigning specific (and colorful) names to scams/cons has always been a thing. See - Pig in a poke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke - Spanish prisoner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Prisoner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Prisoner - Badger game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger_game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger_game - Coin smack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coin-matching_game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coin-matching_game - Pigeon drop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon_drop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon_drop And anyway, the name seems to come from the scammers themselves in China, so I don't know why the media would be to blame.
- wavemode 2y ago
  I'm not upset, and I don't think your examples are analogous, since they all do have a specific meaning beyond "scam". I think both things can be true - the term originated from Chinese and became a common term in that region for long conning people over the internet, sure. But, at the same time, the media has also latched onto its use largely for dramatic effect, even when there is no evidence the scammers are Chinese.
- drwl 2y ago
  I don’t think that’s fair to say the person is not engaging content in a meaningful way. Have you read the article? It’s pretty clean cut aside from understanding who the perpetrators were. The ceo of a bank got conned and went to prison, and there’s emphasis on calling the con a “pig butchering scam”
- wyldfire 2y ago
  Absent the etymology described in this thread, I would have had a similar confusion to theirs as to what distinguishes this scam. But now I know it's a regional term for it and I shouldn't necessarily expect a term with an obvious connection to how the scheme works.
  - akerl_ 2y ago
listenallyall 2y ago
> This sort of thing has existed for a long time Not to this scale, level of sophistication, global reach, ease of finding victims and the scammers being victims (of human trafficking) themselves. Using crypto, human trafficking to force people to contact victims nonstop, having scripts and actors, legitimate-looking websites showing fake profits is new and novel. Now add AI into the mix, along with large-scale data breaches - would not be surprised if, by 2030, the majority of individuals over 60-70 years old are contacted by at least one very convincing scammer that the victim will have difficulty distinguishing from an actual family member. It's already happening - only a matter of time before it's more widespread.
rcxdude 2y ago
I think it's easy to think that the name is somehow descriptive of the mechanics of the scam (which tends to be how scams are named). But in this case it's more about the payout patterns. It is usually a relationship/investment scam, i.e. one where the victim is conned into believing they've formed a close relationship with a wealthy individual, who then offers them investment advice, pointing them towards a fake investment app.
username135 2y ago
Its nothing more than marketing/rebranding. Capitalism bby! Gotta get those clicks!
anonylizard 2y ago
Its very very good to name these scams with strong language. It reminds of people to not be the 'pig' to be butchered, to know that their greed or lust could be manipulated by an organization behind that screen, and that they are a pig walking into a slaughterhouse willingly.
somat 2y ago
I always thought the euphemism "pig butchering" referred specifically to the case where a government kills a company via persecution in order to gain the wealth contained within. sort of in the sense "you let your pigs(private industary) get fat and wealthy. and when times get tough, you can butcher(fines, taxes, regulation and persecution) one of them to eat well for a while." usually seen in the context of chineese companys
canjobear 2y ago
Pig butchering scams are characterized by some number of the following: - Finding marks by sending out text messages which have the appearance of being a normal message sent to the wrong number, and which invite a response. - Building a long-term relationship with the mark over text messages. - Eventually convincing the mark to invest in a fake crypto exchange. - The fake crypto exchange delivers small wins for a while - Eventually convincing the mark to make a very large investment. - Then the money disappears. - The scam is run by Chinese operators in an illegal call center in Myanmar using human-trafficked labor. This obviously has characteristics that distinguish it from a generic scam. Example of a scam that is not pig butchering: - I got a text message offering me $XYZ/day to drive around town with a Colgate toothpaste ad on my car - If I had accepted the offer, they would have asked me to send in a downpayment for the ad materials, then they would have vanished
- meowster 2y ago
  A new scam that I'm seeing is random text messages where the other person thinks you're a veterinarian, or play tennis (and they're oddly worded): > Hello Manny. My customized tennis racket has arrived. I want to play a tennis match with you. I have a hunch that you are no longer my opponent. When do you have time? I imagine they want to get you into a conversation and pitch a crypto scam.
  - charlieyu1 2y ago
    It doesn’t have to be crypto. In Hong Kong it is more common as some gift cards or even straight bank transfers because average victims don’t know how to use crypto
  - rfoo 2y ago
    This is exactly the so-called "pig butchering" scam.

TillE 2y ago

Yeah the scam itself is not meaningfully distinguishable from eg the good old Nigerian Prince emails. But the distinctive characteristic of the new model is to operate at large scale with human trafficking.

drwl 2y ago

yeah I'm with you there. Pig butchering scam [1] is just a simple con, not sure why they're attributing any importance to the name of it [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_butchering_scam

wcarss 2y ago
evocative imagery gets clicks
- ihumanable 2y ago
  This is the correct answer. News loves the term because it's eye catching and clearly not informative, that's why every article has to explain it.

jcrawfordor 2y ago

the term "pig butchering" originates in Chinese (杀猪盘), where this particular style of scam is often targeted at overseas people via WhatsApp. So "pig butchering" refers specifically to these scams run from China (or elsewhere in the region by Chinese operations), and it's what the scammers themselves call it. One of the distinguishing features is that they're often run by fairly large, organized operations with paid, trafficked, or otherwise long-term staff manning the WhatsApp personas. Similar to Indian call center scams. Much like how "419" or "Nigerian prince" refers to scams coming out of a specific region.

deaddodo 2y ago
> Much like how "419" or "Nigerian prince" refers to scams coming out of a specific region. 419 refers more to a type of scam than a region. In some ways, it's almost synonymous with "online scam" these days. The name simply originates with Nigeria, and continues to associate with it due to the sheer scale of online scams coming out of the region.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  "419" refers to the Nigerian criminal code section which defines the type of scam: <https://web.archive.org/web/20050308040611/http://www.nigeria-law.org/Criminal%20Code%20Act-Part%20VI%20%20to%20the%20end.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20050308040611/http://www.nigeri...> Much as with other toponyms, the origins are in fact region-specific, though the term has become more general with time. The generic term is "advanced-fee scam": <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_scam>
  - deaddodo 2y ago
    > the name simply originates with Nigeria Maybe ingest the entire comment you're replying to first. Especially if you're simply going to agree with me in the very next point: > though the term has become more general with time
kccqzy 2y ago
I still don't get it. Is pig butchering a common phrase in Chinese to refer to scams? I believe the phrase, even in its original Chinese language, was only invented recently (Wikipedia says 2016). That doesn't answer the question of why this particular phrase was invented.
- kurthr 2y ago
  Because, this is how the scammers described themselves, in Mandarin using colorful language.
- 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

jiggawatts 2y ago

Pig butchering is not just something that goes on in an abattoir, in many countries it's like a mini-festival. The idea is that in winter months each household butchers their pig, everyone turns up and gets fed. Then next week it's someone else's turn in the village to butcher their pig. Before refrigeration this was a great way to have meat regularly without needing to preserve all of it. The image that this evokes in the minds of people that have experienced this is a big barbecue where various cuts of meat are feasted upon for a long time, maybe all day. It's a joyous event of unbridled gluttony. The guests must consume all of the un-preservable meat right away, which means if you attend one of these events you get to stuff your face with delicious, delicious pork for several meals, not just one. To understand the origin of the "pig butchering" scam name, consider that most scams are one-offs. The scammer tricks the victim, the victim loses maybe a few thousand dollars, and learns "not to do that again". With pig butchering, the victim is tricked into feeding their money repeatedly into a fake "investment" application, which allows the scammer to "feast" on them for a long time, like at a pig butchering event. Similarly, many long-cons take time to set up, but are still one-off thefts. That's not the same as convincing someone to repeatedly put thousands of dollars into the stealing machine.

vsuperpower2021 2y ago
This still doesn't make sense. The connection between "feasting all day on a pig" and what you've described is non-existent.
- segmondy 2y ago
  Yup, the fattening of the pig is "fattening the scammer's wallet". To gain maximum meat, you must keep feeding the pig, to gain the most, the scammer must keep the victim on the hook for as long as possible. The slaughter is the going all in to end the scam. Either by asking for all the remaining money if possible or terminating it when the victim is broken.

norgie 2y ago

Come on, I think you're just looking for things to get upset about (and not engaging with the content in any meaningful way). Assigning specific (and colorful) names to scams/cons has always been a thing. See - Pig in a poke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke - Spanish prisoner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Prisoner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Prisoner - Badger game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger_game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger_game - Coin smack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coin-matching_game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coin-matching_game - Pigeon drop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon_drop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon_drop And anyway, the name seems to come from the scammers themselves in China, so I don't know why the media would be to blame.

wavemode 2y ago
I'm not upset, and I don't think your examples are analogous, since they all do have a specific meaning beyond "scam". I think both things can be true - the term originated from Chinese and became a common term in that region for long conning people over the internet, sure. But, at the same time, the media has also latched onto its use largely for dramatic effect, even when there is no evidence the scammers are Chinese.
drwl 2y ago
I don’t think that’s fair to say the person is not engaging content in a meaningful way. Have you read the article? It’s pretty clean cut aside from understanding who the perpetrators were. The ceo of a bank got conned and went to prison, and there’s emphasis on calling the con a “pig butchering scam”
wyldfire 2y ago
Absent the etymology described in this thread, I would have had a similar confusion to theirs as to what distinguishes this scam. But now I know it's a regional term for it and I shouldn't necessarily expect a term with an obvious connection to how the scheme works.
- akerl_ 2y ago

listenallyall 2y ago

> This sort of thing has existed for a long time Not to this scale, level of sophistication, global reach, ease of finding victims and the scammers being victims (of human trafficking) themselves. Using crypto, human trafficking to force people to contact victims nonstop, having scripts and actors, legitimate-looking websites showing fake profits is new and novel. Now add AI into the mix, along with large-scale data breaches - would not be surprised if, by 2030, the majority of individuals over 60-70 years old are contacted by at least one very convincing scammer that the victim will have difficulty distinguishing from an actual family member. It's already happening - only a matter of time before it's more widespread.

rcxdude 2y ago

I think it's easy to think that the name is somehow descriptive of the mechanics of the scam (which tends to be how scams are named). But in this case it's more about the payout patterns. It is usually a relationship/investment scam, i.e. one where the victim is conned into believing they've formed a close relationship with a wealthy individual, who then offers them investment advice, pointing them towards a fake investment app.

username135 2y ago

Its nothing more than marketing/rebranding. Capitalism bby! Gotta get those clicks!

anonylizard 2y ago

Its very very good to name these scams with strong language. It reminds of people to not be the 'pig' to be butchered, to know that their greed or lust could be manipulated by an organization behind that screen, and that they are a pig walking into a slaughterhouse willingly.

somat 2y ago

I always thought the euphemism "pig butchering" referred specifically to the case where a government kills a company via persecution in order to gain the wealth contained within. sort of in the sense "you let your pigs(private industary) get fat and wealthy. and when times get tough, you can butcher(fines, taxes, regulation and persecution) one of them to eat well for a while." usually seen in the context of chineese companys

canjobear 2y ago

Pig butchering scams are characterized by some number of the following: - Finding marks by sending out text messages which have the appearance of being a normal message sent to the wrong number, and which invite a response. - Building a long-term relationship with the mark over text messages. - Eventually convincing the mark to invest in a fake crypto exchange. - The fake crypto exchange delivers small wins for a while - Eventually convincing the mark to make a very large investment. - Then the money disappears. - The scam is run by Chinese operators in an illegal call center in Myanmar using human-trafficked labor. This obviously has characteristics that distinguish it from a generic scam. Example of a scam that is not pig butchering: - I got a text message offering me $XYZ/day to drive around town with a Colgate toothpaste ad on my car - If I had accepted the offer, they would have asked me to send in a downpayment for the ad materials, then they would have vanished

meowster 2y ago
A new scam that I'm seeing is random text messages where the other person thinks you're a veterinarian, or play tennis (and they're oddly worded): > Hello Manny. My customized tennis racket has arrived. I want to play a tennis match with you. I have a hunch that you are no longer my opponent. When do you have time? I imagine they want to get you into a conversation and pitch a crypto scam.
- charlieyu1 2y ago
  It doesn’t have to be crypto. In Hong Kong it is more common as some gift cards or even straight bank transfers because average victims don’t know how to use crypto
- rfoo 2y ago
  This is exactly the so-called "pig butchering" scam.