16 ms·

6th-generation Waymo Driver

82 points by panarky 2y ago

WXLCKNO 2y ago
Tried Waymo in SF. Didn't take a single cab/Uber after and only used Waymo during my trip. Putting my own music and not having to interact with anyone is pretty great.
- paganel 2y ago
  > not having to interact with anyone is pretty great. Bleak. And then questions get asked of how techies have become so despised by part of the general population and why they feel so out of touch in comparison to said general population. We’ve become averse to even holding the proverbial chat with the proverbial taxi driver.
  - coke12 2y ago
    It's the exact same benefit as having your own car. It's a common reason people have to avoid shared transit.
    - rafaelmn 2y ago
      The main benefit of having a car is that it's right there the moment you need it, you can take it as far as you need to and you can load it up with whatever you need - none of this applies to waymo or a taxi without getting too expensive. And saying taxis are like public transportation, because another person is driving you, is going in favor of OPs point out people here being out of touch.
      - zooq_ai 2y ago
        Yes, the benefit of a car is it's there when you need it. But, in cities it comes with the challenge of having to find parking. So, if you have to wait 5mins for Waymo (as they scale up) vs 10 mins circling around to find a parking spot, which is better?
    - whiplash451 2y ago
      There is still a slight difference between having to take a packed subway between A’ and B’ (while you’re trying to do A->B) and doing A->B in a car of your own with a driver you don’t know.
    - black_13 2y ago
      [dead]
    - jeegsy 2y ago
      I'm not sure that reason is all that common. People like cars primarily for the flexibility I think.
  - shreezus 2y ago
    > not having to interact with anyone is pretty great. Anecdotally, most of my female friends here in LA prefer Waymo over Uber for this reason (safety), especially when leaving bars late at night.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    > how techies have become so despised by part of the general population Mostly because a bunch of stereotypical socially maladjusted nerds is an easy target to manufacture and then blame for social issues adjacent to tech products, despite the fact that almost all the evil is not in tech per se, but in business models around it, despite the fact that it's all commissioned and funded and driven by the much more gregarious business types. I guess this is America: business sharks are the lambs that do no wrong, even if they eat their customers, competition and environment alive. Let's blame literally anyone else than those directly responsible.
    - jjulius 2y ago
      "I was just following orders."
      - TeMPOraL 2y ago
        Oh don't give me Nuremberg defense bullshit. In WW2, superiors were also blamed and charged. They weren't instead praised for their military acumen, like the business class is.
        jjulius 2y ago
        Oh, I'm perfectly happy to agree that a lot of the bullshit starts with the "gregarious business types", but I'll never say that it automatically allows everyone else responsible for whatever bullshit to be completely absolved of their sins just because, "Boss said so". Life's grey areas and nuances tend to be like that. Edit to respond to your own edit: If you think the business class is without criticism these days, then I'm a bit shocked and very curious to know where you're getting your news. I see it everywhere, even here on HN.
  - blooalien 2y ago
    > And then questions get asked of how techies have become so despised by part of the general population and why they feel so out of touch in comparison to said general population. We’ve become averse to even holding the proverbial chat with the proverbial taxi driver. Ever consider that maybe some of those "techies" were maybe mistreated and abused by so-called "normal" folks purely for their interest in technology and science topics? Bullied, hated, insulted, phyiscally attacked even? Not for any valid reasons, nor even because they were "out of touch", but became out of touch and averse to interacting with others due to all the ongoing abuse over their interest in a topic that dirtbag bully types consider "nerdy"? Reading bad! Learning bad! Trying to better one's self BAD! Absuing others GOOD! Maybe after many years of that kinda treatment, some of us are more comfortable with machines than we are with humans because so many humans are just literal monsters, and not worth trying to interact with.
    - ozzcer 2y ago
      Bro, I beg, go outside and touch some grass
  - mariusor 2y ago
    So now being an introvert is something to be despised? Sounds a bit unempathetic.
  - WXLCKNO 2y ago
    Not wanting to engage in the same small talk with different random people isn't bleak. Get off your incredibly high horse.
- panarky 2y ago
  Also safer than human drivers. Statistics after hundreds of millions of miles driven are compelling. But my own subjective confidence in how it drives and the decisions it makes in very challenging and ambiguous situations allow me to trust it far more than most Uber drivers. With Uber, I feel uneasy to moderately frightened probably three rides in ten. With Waymo I've never felt at risk. I'm pretty sure Waymo is a safer driver than I am.
  - xnx 2y ago
    > I'm pretty sure Waymo is a safer driver than I am. Same. I don't think enough credit is given to the inexhaustible attention, superhuman reaction time, and superhuman sensing (360 lidar, etc.) of Waymo.
- hakfoo 2y ago
  I tried it for the first time in SF; ironically coming from Phoenix but about 10km outside their catchment zone. The experience was nice enough but the exact same destination I wanted was serviced by a good-enough bus at 1/5 the price.
dosinga 2y ago
I'm a big fan of Waymo, but this press release seems to be almost entirely content free. Is there a link somewhere that describes what is actually new in the 6th generation?
- jtriangle 2y ago
  [flagged]
- panarky 2y ago
  1) It's cheaper: fewer expensive sensors 2) It's better: improved range and greater redundancy 3) It handles new conditions: extended time in rain, snow and Texas bugs
- kfarr 2y ago
  Well revealing the car mfr Zeekr is a big deal, perhaps it has been done before but I hadn't seen it.
xnx 2y ago
Best self driving software and sensor suite packaged in a purpose built vehicle paired with large scale operations puts Waymo very far ahead of everyone else.
metadat 2y ago
Did this Google VP write the article all by himself? I am an executive at a faang.. and I doubt it :) press release stamp Why can't everyone who helped write it be credited?
- rexpop 2y ago
  Why can't he have written it? Has he got something better to do while everyone else is doing the actual work?
  - metadat 2y ago
    You can tell by the way it's written that it was formulated by a committee.
- n_ary 2y ago
  Good news must come from overlords, bad news from the foot soldiers and messengers. Rite of the MBA era.
badgersnake 2y ago
> Waymo’s approach of designing both hardware and software from the ground up has been crucial to our success I’m sorry, what? It’s not a success. It’s a very expensive piece of R&D. Success would be widespread adoption and, you know, profit.
- daemonologist 2y ago
  Well, they've been successful in that they seem to be far ahead of any other self-driving company* in putting level 4 vehicles on the road carrying paying customers. Whether that pans out as a viable business of course remains to be seen. (Although I expect it probably will be economically viable, and mainly a matter of getting the public to be indifferent to fatalities the way we are for human drivers.) * I think maybe Mobileye is the nearest while being pretty far back, but I'm not too familiar with what's going on outside the US.
- abenga 2y ago
  Who else has achieved what they have?
  - badgersnake 2y ago
    What spent a lot of money building something that doesn’t work very well and doesn’t make any money? Loads of people.
    - minwcnt5 2y ago
      It works phenomenally well. I use it several times a week.
- zooq_ai 2y ago
  Waymo does 100,000 per week Other cars / services in US : ZERO
Terr_ 2y ago
For a brief moment, I honestly thought this title was for some satire of a character stuck in an ancestral profession. Probably in a slightly dystopic way.
ipsum2 2y ago
Car enthusiasts, what's the car make and model displayed in the new waymo car? They've switched from the Jaguar e-pace after Jaguar announced that line was discontinued. Edit: looks like a custom made zeekr? I don't see a minivan-esque model on their website. Edit2: Found it. CM1e, no steering wheel (where regulations allow). https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45711737/zeekr-cm1e-waymo-autonomous-taxi/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45711737/zeekr-cm1e-waymo...
- Mistletoe 2y ago
  Modern day Johnny Cab from Total Recall.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- conradev 2y ago
  "The CM1e concept does not have a steering wheel, but until that setup is permitted by local regulations, a production version would be equipped with one; steering and braking are by-wire. All the self-driving hardware is by Waymo."
- trhway 2y ago
  And being Chinese EV it means tariff, 25% today i think and planned 100% end of the year or something. So, cost control on sensors while tariffs rise the total cost.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  Were there laws prior to self-driving vehicles that cars were required to have a steering wheel? Or that something added since?
Animats 2y ago
Basic unanswered questions: - How many seats? - Is there a steering wheel at all?
- frankchn 2y ago
  If this is the model (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45711737/zeekr-cm1e-waymo-autonomous-taxi/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45711737/zeekr-cm1e-waymo...) then 5 passenger seats, no steering wheel (in the photos at least).
  - slimsag 2y ago
    the zeekr model is indeed being tested; however it does have a steering wheel (and the article you linked mentions this.) The steering wheel is required by law in various places, and is also needed because when Waymo's get stuck they send people out in trucks to 'complete the trip', unstuck the car manually, etc.
    - Animats 2y ago
      Too bad. The unused driver position wastes so much space inside the vehicle.
  - choppaface 2y ago
    Article says yes steering wheel until regulatory approval. There’s also a 100% tax on Chinese cars imported to the US, so hard to say if this demo is a realistic model.
  - Animats 2y ago
    From China? Does Waymo have to pay the 100% tariff on electric cars from China? (Detroit is terrified of EVs from China. Detroit went all-in on "more crap per car" and much higher price points. Consumers didn't go for it. Meanwhile, there are good US$25,000 EVs from China from multiple manufacturers. Even Tesla says they want to make one.)
- daemonologist 2y ago
slimsag 2y ago
I really like Waymo, and compared to Uber/Lyft the experience is just strictly higher quality. The ride is smoother, the cars have a consistent quality, the driver is consistent, you get the car to yourself, etc. However, I have three major complaints. a. In Phoenix, where Waymo has been operating for nearly 4 years, I can still only visit a third of the city[1] - I can't take a Waymo to my dentist, to the vet, etc. and these are places that are <15 minutes from the city center. b. Waymo doesn't go on highways, only backstreets, so trips take 2x longer - and takes you through some sketchy alleyways and streets. c. For some damn reason they refuse to let you connect to the car's speakers using Bluetooth or Airplay. Instead, you need to download the Google app, then use voice input to 'hey Google, play <xyz>' - and argue with the AI to play some music. Then it can't play music from your Apple Music or local files, because they only integrate with Google's music provider and Spotify or whatever. It's terrible and the worst music experience you could have for Apple users. Hopefully they address some of these with their new platform. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40756191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40756191
- zhoujianfu 2y ago
  Agreed on all three points! 1 and 2 I know they’re working on, and 3 hopefully this gets it on their radar!
  - trinhnd9 2y ago
    Hello, i sent email to you j o s h s...@gmail.com. can you check it? Mtgox and BB user. Thank you so much
- jjulius 2y ago
  I don't know why, but I find it fascinating that, here's this relatively brand new technology that we're still ironing out a shitload of kinks in, yet options A and B are "complaints". I dunno, if I step back and look at it through the lens of, say, the year 2000 or even earlier, it's pretty neat that we're even at this stage already.
  - threatofrain 2y ago
LanceJones 2y ago
I took a Waymo this past weekend in SF. 8 miles, $41, and 51 minutes to cross town in light-medium traffic. It clearly has to avoid certain routes due to insufficient HD mapping -- like construction. 51 minutes is way too long, fun as the experience is with no driver...
- r0m4n0 2y ago
  To be fair, the entirety of SF across is around 8 miles and even if you are taking a private car, it probably takes the better part of an hour to do that voyage. 51 minutes does seem too long but not an extreme
floppiplopp 2y ago
Let's as a couple of waymo cars what they have to say, over here in this parking lot at night: honk! honk! honk! honk! honk! honk!
dools 2y ago
When there's enough of these things, does that mean Google can launch realtime street view?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mg 2y ago
As far as I know, Alphabet has spent over $10B on Waymo so far. That surely makes it one of the most expensive (in terms of development before reaching profitability) products of all time that were financed by the private sector? I would love to see a list of the most expensive products the private sector developed in human history.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  The rumors are that Apple spent the same and didn't manage to find a useful end product. Really wild amounts of money going on, but the end product could be worth an absolute fortune. Uber without the primary cost -- the driver.
- xnx 2y ago
  Meta has spent $46 billion on the "metaverse" since 2021.
- minwcnt5 2y ago
  Uber spent something like $20B+ before they first made a profit.
black_13 2y ago
[dead]
matthewfelgate 2y ago
Is Waymo profitable?

82 points by panarky 2y ago

Tried Waymo in SF. Didn't take a single cab/Uber after and only used Waymo during my trip. Putting my own music and not having to interact with anyone is pretty great.

paganel 2y ago
> not having to interact with anyone is pretty great. Bleak. And then questions get asked of how techies have become so despised by part of the general population and why they feel so out of touch in comparison to said general population. We’ve become averse to even holding the proverbial chat with the proverbial taxi driver.
- coke12 2y ago
  It's the exact same benefit as having your own car. It's a common reason people have to avoid shared transit.
  - rafaelmn 2y ago
    The main benefit of having a car is that it's right there the moment you need it, you can take it as far as you need to and you can load it up with whatever you need - none of this applies to waymo or a taxi without getting too expensive. And saying taxis are like public transportation, because another person is driving you, is going in favor of OPs point out people here being out of touch.
    - zooq_ai 2y ago
      Yes, the benefit of a car is it's there when you need it. But, in cities it comes with the challenge of having to find parking. So, if you have to wait 5mins for Waymo (as they scale up) vs 10 mins circling around to find a parking spot, which is better?
  - whiplash451 2y ago
    There is still a slight difference between having to take a packed subway between A’ and B’ (while you’re trying to do A->B) and doing A->B in a car of your own with a driver you don’t know.
  - black_13 2y ago
    [dead]
  - jeegsy 2y ago
    I'm not sure that reason is all that common. People like cars primarily for the flexibility I think.
- shreezus 2y ago
  > not having to interact with anyone is pretty great. Anecdotally, most of my female friends here in LA prefer Waymo over Uber for this reason (safety), especially when leaving bars late at night.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  > how techies have become so despised by part of the general population Mostly because a bunch of stereotypical socially maladjusted nerds is an easy target to manufacture and then blame for social issues adjacent to tech products, despite the fact that almost all the evil is not in tech per se, but in business models around it, despite the fact that it's all commissioned and funded and driven by the much more gregarious business types. I guess this is America: business sharks are the lambs that do no wrong, even if they eat their customers, competition and environment alive. Let's blame literally anyone else than those directly responsible.
  - jjulius 2y ago
    "I was just following orders."
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      Oh don't give me Nuremberg defense bullshit. In WW2, superiors were also blamed and charged. They weren't instead praised for their military acumen, like the business class is.
      - jjulius 2y ago
        Oh, I'm perfectly happy to agree that a lot of the bullshit starts with the "gregarious business types", but I'll never say that it automatically allows everyone else responsible for whatever bullshit to be completely absolved of their sins just because, "Boss said so". Life's grey areas and nuances tend to be like that. Edit to respond to your own edit: If you think the business class is without criticism these days, then I'm a bit shocked and very curious to know where you're getting your news. I see it everywhere, even here on HN.
- blooalien 2y ago
  > And then questions get asked of how techies have become so despised by part of the general population and why they feel so out of touch in comparison to said general population. We’ve become averse to even holding the proverbial chat with the proverbial taxi driver. Ever consider that maybe some of those "techies" were maybe mistreated and abused by so-called "normal" folks purely for their interest in technology and science topics? Bullied, hated, insulted, phyiscally attacked even? Not for any valid reasons, nor even because they were "out of touch", but became out of touch and averse to interacting with others due to all the ongoing abuse over their interest in a topic that dirtbag bully types consider "nerdy"? Reading bad! Learning bad! Trying to better one's self BAD! Absuing others GOOD! Maybe after many years of that kinda treatment, some of us are more comfortable with machines than we are with humans because so many humans are just literal monsters, and not worth trying to interact with.
  - ozzcer 2y ago
    Bro, I beg, go outside and touch some grass
- mariusor 2y ago
  So now being an introvert is something to be despised? Sounds a bit unempathetic.
- WXLCKNO 2y ago
  Not wanting to engage in the same small talk with different random people isn't bleak. Get off your incredibly high horse.
panarky 2y ago
Also safer than human drivers. Statistics after hundreds of millions of miles driven are compelling. But my own subjective confidence in how it drives and the decisions it makes in very challenging and ambiguous situations allow me to trust it far more than most Uber drivers. With Uber, I feel uneasy to moderately frightened probably three rides in ten. With Waymo I've never felt at risk. I'm pretty sure Waymo is a safer driver than I am.
- xnx 2y ago
  > I'm pretty sure Waymo is a safer driver than I am. Same. I don't think enough credit is given to the inexhaustible attention, superhuman reaction time, and superhuman sensing (360 lidar, etc.) of Waymo.
hakfoo 2y ago
I tried it for the first time in SF; ironically coming from Phoenix but about 10km outside their catchment zone. The experience was nice enough but the exact same destination I wanted was serviced by a good-enough bus at 1/5 the price.

dosinga 2y ago

I'm a big fan of Waymo, but this press release seems to be almost entirely content free. Is there a link somewhere that describes what is actually new in the 6th generation?

jtriangle 2y ago
[flagged]
panarky 2y ago
1) It's cheaper: fewer expensive sensors 2) It's better: improved range and greater redundancy 3) It handles new conditions: extended time in rain, snow and Texas bugs
kfarr 2y ago
Well revealing the car mfr Zeekr is a big deal, perhaps it has been done before but I hadn't seen it.

xnx 2y ago

Best self driving software and sensor suite packaged in a purpose built vehicle paired with large scale operations puts Waymo very far ahead of everyone else.

metadat 2y ago

Did this Google VP write the article all by himself? I am an executive at a faang.. and I doubt it :) press release stamp Why can't everyone who helped write it be credited?

rexpop 2y ago
Why can't he have written it? Has he got something better to do while everyone else is doing the actual work?
- metadat 2y ago
  You can tell by the way it's written that it was formulated by a committee.
n_ary 2y ago
Good news must come from overlords, bad news from the foot soldiers and messengers. Rite of the MBA era.

badgersnake 2y ago

> Waymo’s approach of designing both hardware and software from the ground up has been crucial to our success I’m sorry, what? It’s not a success. It’s a very expensive piece of R&D. Success would be widespread adoption and, you know, profit.

daemonologist 2y ago
Well, they've been successful in that they seem to be far ahead of any other self-driving company* in putting level 4 vehicles on the road carrying paying customers. Whether that pans out as a viable business of course remains to be seen. (Although I expect it probably will be economically viable, and mainly a matter of getting the public to be indifferent to fatalities the way we are for human drivers.) * I think maybe Mobileye is the nearest while being pretty far back, but I'm not too familiar with what's going on outside the US.
abenga 2y ago
Who else has achieved what they have?
- badgersnake 2y ago
  What spent a lot of money building something that doesn’t work very well and doesn’t make any money? Loads of people.
  - minwcnt5 2y ago
    It works phenomenally well. I use it several times a week.
zooq_ai 2y ago
Waymo does 100,000 per week Other cars / services in US : ZERO

Terr_ 2y ago

For a brief moment, I honestly thought this title was for some satire of a character stuck in an ancestral profession. Probably in a slightly dystopic way.

ipsum2 2y ago

Car enthusiasts, what's the car make and model displayed in the new waymo car? They've switched from the Jaguar e-pace after Jaguar announced that line was discontinued. Edit: looks like a custom made zeekr? I don't see a minivan-esque model on their website. Edit2: Found it. CM1e, no steering wheel (where regulations allow). https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45711737/zeekr-cm1e-waymo-autonomous-taxi/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45711737/zeekr-cm1e-waymo...

Mistletoe 2y ago
Modern day Johnny Cab from Total Recall.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
conradev 2y ago
"The CM1e concept does not have a steering wheel, but until that setup is permitted by local regulations, a production version would be equipped with one; steering and braking are by-wire. All the self-driving hardware is by Waymo."
trhway 2y ago
And being Chinese EV it means tariff, 25% today i think and planned 100% end of the year or something. So, cost control on sensors while tariffs rise the total cost.
qingcharles 2y ago
Were there laws prior to self-driving vehicles that cars were required to have a steering wheel? Or that something added since?

Animats 2y ago

Basic unanswered questions: - How many seats? - Is there a steering wheel at all?

frankchn 2y ago
If this is the model (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45711737/zeekr-cm1e-waymo-autonomous-taxi/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45711737/zeekr-cm1e-waymo...) then 5 passenger seats, no steering wheel (in the photos at least).
- slimsag 2y ago
  the zeekr model is indeed being tested; however it does have a steering wheel (and the article you linked mentions this.) The steering wheel is required by law in various places, and is also needed because when Waymo's get stuck they send people out in trucks to 'complete the trip', unstuck the car manually, etc.
  - Animats 2y ago
    Too bad. The unused driver position wastes so much space inside the vehicle.
- choppaface 2y ago
  Article says yes steering wheel until regulatory approval. There’s also a 100% tax on Chinese cars imported to the US, so hard to say if this demo is a realistic model.
- Animats 2y ago
  From China? Does Waymo have to pay the 100% tariff on electric cars from China? (Detroit is terrified of EVs from China. Detroit went all-in on "more crap per car" and much higher price points. Consumers didn't go for it. Meanwhile, there are good US$25,000 EVs from China from multiple manufacturers. Even Tesla says they want to make one.)
daemonologist 2y ago

slimsag 2y ago

I really like Waymo, and compared to Uber/Lyft the experience is just strictly higher quality. The ride is smoother, the cars have a consistent quality, the driver is consistent, you get the car to yourself, etc. However, I have three major complaints. a. In Phoenix, where Waymo has been operating for nearly 4 years, I can still only visit a third of the city[1] - I can't take a Waymo to my dentist, to the vet, etc. and these are places that are <15 minutes from the city center. b. Waymo doesn't go on highways, only backstreets, so trips take 2x longer - and takes you through some sketchy alleyways and streets. c. For some damn reason they refuse to let you connect to the car's speakers using Bluetooth or Airplay. Instead, you need to download the Google app, then use voice input to 'hey Google, play <xyz>' - and argue with the AI to play some music. Then it can't play music from your Apple Music or local files, because they only integrate with Google's music provider and Spotify or whatever. It's terrible and the worst music experience you could have for Apple users. Hopefully they address some of these with their new platform. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40756191 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40756191

zhoujianfu 2y ago
Agreed on all three points! 1 and 2 I know they’re working on, and 3 hopefully this gets it on their radar!
- trinhnd9 2y ago
  Hello, i sent email to you j o s h s...@gmail.com. can you check it? Mtgox and BB user. Thank you so much
jjulius 2y ago
I don't know why, but I find it fascinating that, here's this relatively brand new technology that we're still ironing out a shitload of kinks in, yet options A and B are "complaints". I dunno, if I step back and look at it through the lens of, say, the year 2000 or even earlier, it's pretty neat that we're even at this stage already.
- threatofrain 2y ago

LanceJones 2y ago

I took a Waymo this past weekend in SF. 8 miles, $41, and 51 minutes to cross town in light-medium traffic. It clearly has to avoid certain routes due to insufficient HD mapping -- like construction. 51 minutes is way too long, fun as the experience is with no driver...

r0m4n0 2y ago
To be fair, the entirety of SF across is around 8 miles and even if you are taking a private car, it probably takes the better part of an hour to do that voyage. 51 minutes does seem too long but not an extreme

floppiplopp 2y ago

Let's as a couple of waymo cars what they have to say, over here in this parking lot at night: honk! honk! honk! honk! honk! honk!

dools 2y ago

When there's enough of these things, does that mean Google can launch realtime street view?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

mg 2y ago

As far as I know, Alphabet has spent over $10B on Waymo so far. That surely makes it one of the most expensive (in terms of development before reaching profitability) products of all time that were financed by the private sector? I would love to see a list of the most expensive products the private sector developed in human history.

qingcharles 2y ago
The rumors are that Apple spent the same and didn't manage to find a useful end product. Really wild amounts of money going on, but the end product could be worth an absolute fortune. Uber without the primary cost -- the driver.
xnx 2y ago
Meta has spent $46 billion on the "metaverse" since 2021.
minwcnt5 2y ago
Uber spent something like $20B+ before they first made a profit.

black_13 2y ago

[dead]

matthewfelgate 2y ago

Is Waymo profitable?