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Apple's Hold on the App Store Is Loosening, at Least in Europe
- darby_nine 2y agoHow easy is it to fool apple into thinking you live in europe with a VPN? do you need an address there?
- LeoPanthera 2y agoNearly impossible. You need an EU Apple ID connected to an EU phone number, and your GPS needs to show you're in Europe.
- bluetidepro 2y agoGreat news for Europeans! If only the US actually cared about their citizens.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- toomuchtodo 2y agoEurope can keep doing its regulatory thing while the US works to improve. At least someone is doing something.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y agoWhat does “works to improve” mean. It’s like you wanted to shoehorn the US in here.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoTo those of us in the US, it is relevant that we have to rely on Europe’s regulatory actions when the US government fails to regulate. Send help.
- ginko 2y agoI assume you mean the one doing something is the EU, right?
- ath3nd 2y agoThe only thing the US improves in is: - people dying earlier than their European counterparts - the price of insulin and healthcare in general is hundreds of times bigger than in other countries - people being less free than anywhere in Europe: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-i... - school shootings numbers rising each year It feels that the US is "improving" in the wrong direction.
- refurb 2y agoIs it just me or are there more low effort posts like this that seems to do nothing but try and cause a flame war? As the rules says “ Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity.”
- Gud 2y agoYes, the quality of comments on HN have gone down considerably over the years.
- ath3nd 2y agoYes, but a comment like: > Europe can keep doing its regulatory thing while the US works to improve. At least someone is doing something. is perfectly fine. On the other hand, somebody questioning what's actually improving in the US is a low quality comment because "it's politics". The US has regressed down in every possible human development index in the last 2 decades, from happiness and freedoms, to longevity, inequality and societal division. Here are some receipts: - Freedom index https://sites.uci.edu/energyobserver/2020/01/15/the-united-states-and-world-in-the-freedom-in-the-world-2019-ratings/ https://sites.uci.edu/energyobserver/2020/01/15/the-united-s... - Longevity https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/03/25/1164819944/live-free-and-die-the-sad-state-of-u-s-life-expectancy https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/03/25/1164819... - Inequality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_Unite... (inequality, by the way, is inversely correlated to strength of labor unions) - Medical costs https://www.statista.com/chart/8658/health-spending-per-capita/ https://www.statista.com/chart/8658/health-spending-per-capi... Since when are statistics and facts considered low quality posts and "politics"? My point is that the low amount of regulation in the US is part of the reasons why US consumers are taking a hit, whether it's monopolistic app stores that can crank prices, exorbitant medical costs, plummeting living standards and rampant inequality, and crashing longevity and happiness.
- glzone1 2y ago[flagged]
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y agoYou … could have both things. You could have real consumer protections, so people like you don’t conflate competition with an absolute free-for-all. Plenty of other jurisdictions do it.
- Novosell 2y agoDo you have data to back up that android users get scammed more? Because that seems to be the implication here.
- Ductapemaster 2y agoThey specifically called out "We get to see how businesses operate under the US government policies when they act on the web" — it's not a specific dig on Android.
- Novosell 2y agoThen they go on to say that the way Apple operates iPhone leads to less scams and there is really only one other phone OS. But their comment is dead now, so I'm not the only one who found it silly.
- glzone1 2y agoMy point is that I as no expert in fraud can in about 5-10 minutes find many examples of clear fraud online that nothing is being done about. If anything, ONLY buying through the Apple App store would probably result in a safer buying experience for most folks with MORE protections not less. One of the value propositions to consumers is that Apple has enough power to push back against big corps. Ask to Track was a push (originally apple was going to ban totally but in "fairness" let businesses track) to let users decide if they wanted to be tracked. If they said no full features of the app had to remain available. Compare even that to the pointless privacy notices they send in the mail saying you can send a letter to some address to ask them not to track you and sell you data? I worked in an elder care adjacent setting - financial fraud is wild against the elderly. It's getting sophisticated. A nice robot voice calls, your account at XXX has been compromised or accessed from Russia, if this was not you you please enter the 6 digit code we've sent to confirm. That six digit code is the 2FA for your real account, which is then drained.
- monero-xmr 2y agoEU can focus on making more regulations, while US focuses on building new businesses. Then the new businesses will adapt to the regulations, while Europe has no businesses that need to be regulated.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago[flagged]
- sschueller 2y agoHave you ever been to Europe?
- monero-xmr 2y agoYes, but has Europe created a Google, Amazon, Netflix, Microsoft, or Facebook sized tech business in the last 30 years?
- givinguflac 2y agoSpotify would probably qualify, fyi.
- monero-xmr 2y agoA large business, but if this is the best Europe can offer, certainly a short king in comparison.
- archagon 2y agoWhat is Google’s business these days? What about Facebook’s? The core products that put them on the map have been degenerating for the past decade, and the only exciting things coming out of these companies have been the result of acquisitions.
- ath3nd 2y agoFor all your big tech, you seem to be dying younger than us, and unhappier, and less free: 1. Freedom: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-i... 2. Longevity: https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ 3. Happiness https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-... One thing you are a winner in is school shootings: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-shootings-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/school-sh... I am happy that the lack of regulation + the ability to exploit your workers creates massive companies. Not sure if it's good for your society, but you do you, America.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoI don’t have high hopes for either Harris or Trump going after big tech the way the EU is.
- darby_nine 2y agoI don't either: https://gazette.com/news/wex/harris-s-choice-of-trump-debate-prepper-raises-eyebrows-for-possible-conflicts/article_f4771b7e-c112-55f4-b362-943f9d45282b.html https://gazette.com/news/wex/harris-s-choice-of-trump-debate... Regardless of your stance on whether or not Google specifically is a monopoly, this should be considered extremely concerning that Harris seems so friendly with someone representing a defendant her own justice department is prosecuting. Not that I want to divert from the topic at hand—just agree there's good reason to be apprehensive about similar expectations being met here.
- pfraze 2y agoNot sure why you say that. The Biden admin pursued a number of cases and recently got a monopoly ruling on Google
- hx833001 2y agoThe case was filed by the Trump administration in 2018, not Biden.
- darby_nine 2y agoThe DOJ has tremendous leeway to ask the courts for some result or another. We'll see how much spine this administration actually has. EDIT: I mean via remediation here, not literally swaying the ruling outside the courtroom.
- bigstrat2003 2y agoI mean... Harris isn't Biden. It's not inherently unreasonable to have different expectations for the policies of two different people.
- gcheong 2y agoHer close billionaire donor buddy Reid Hoffman is openly pressuring her to fire Lina Khan.
- ricardobeat 2y agohttps://archive.ph/LH3Xu https://archive.ph/LH3Xu
- kmfrk 2y agoFYI, the Apple flow of installing the third-party marketplace is (unsurprisingly) designed to be a pain in the ass. Here's the general experience: https://adamdemasi.com/2024/04/19/app-marketplace-experience.html https://adamdemasi.com/2024/04/19/app-marketplace-experience... For me, installing the Epic Games Store was such a weird experience that felt very un-Apple-like. I recommend people (in EU) try it out for themselves just to see what it's like: https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/mobile/ios https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/mobile/ios.
- LeoPanthera 2y agoEven after looking at that, it doesn't seem that bad. It's about the same as installing a management or configuration profile, but arguably, has the potential for more risk to your data privacy, so I wouldn't expect it to be easy. OK, it could definitely use some more polish, but this is literally the first time Apple has done this.
- Spivak 2y agoAnd I don't think the dialogs are malicious or anything, I would do the same thing because I don't want people complaining to me and you have to hammer it into people because no one reads. Edit: To be clear I'm also in the set of people who don't read.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- idle_zealot 2y agoMore screens to click through only guarantees that nobody will read them. For a warning to be effective you need to keep it short and simple.
- borski 2y agoThat’s only true if you’re installing many third-party app stores. Showing a warning once, or even a couple times, doesn’t necessarily cause the same desensitization.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoRelated from earlier: Epic Games Store Launches on iPhone in EU, Brings Fortnite Back to iOS https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41265892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41265892
- jesprenj 2y agoWhy does this work? How does archive.ph bypass the paywall?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jms703 2y agoI'm not a heavy app user, but I do think there things I want from Apple's app store process, such as privacy, security, and safety reviews. I can't comment on the quality of these reviews themselves, but I'm assuming some people and some automation are providing some benefit and I know that work costs money. Does it become the wild west when you install apps outside of the app store? Am I taking extra risk here?
- meiraleal 2y ago[dead]
- ath3nd 2y agoYou are making it sound as if Epic can't provide privacy, security and safety reviews, considering they already have an established PC store competing with Steam. I think we are gonna be okay. It's not going to be the wild west, as your words make it out to be, but a healthier system than the oppressive and monopolistic mono culture that Apple clings on to for dear life.
- minkles 2y agoWishful thinking but 95% of users don’t give a crap. And at least half of them don’t even know even know the App Store is.
- azemetre 2y agoIf users don’t care shouldn’t it be easier to implement changes to follow the spirit of the law rather than making everything harder?
- minkles 2y agoAs an asshole, but at least an honest one, I would do the same. So I expect that they are being an asshole rather than following the spirit of the law.
- jayd16 2y agoHey, if 5% of Appstore revenue is actually up for grabs, that's still more than enough for a competitor to be successful.
- adamwk 2y agoI’m skeptical that this will be a win for users. Most Gamers are upset when they have to use any launcher besides Steam and I don’t see how this will be any different. Android always had third party app stores, yet nobody uses them.
- ath3nd 2y agoWell, this can have a price tag difference, and some consumers might care for that. Apple insists on taking 30% of every purchase. If Epic can sell their products on their own store, that middle man money is out of the picture, and they can offer their apps for cheaper than you'd find them on the app store. > Most Gamers are upset when they have to use any launcher besides Steam and I don’t see how this will be any different I am one of those gamers, but if I see an Epic store sale, I might buy the game via the Epic store (I got like 7-8 titles for free already).
- 2y ago
- graemep 2y agoIn the EU, not in all of Europe. So not in the UK, Norway, Switzerland, Russia, Ukraine, etc.
- devinegan 2y agoSerious question. Does this open up EU iPhone customers to CrowdStrike-like security issues related to their phones if they use these new App Stores? Or at least reduce security and privacy of their devices by downloading less vetted apps? I am not pro either way yet I am just curious what the community thinks.
- Ambroos 2y agoApps still don't have system level access to anything, so no. iPhone apps can't automatically run in the background, run on boot or just access random data from random apps. If they can it'd be an exploit, and while the App Store gives you some extra safety in that they can scan for it / pull the app without updating iOS, now you actually need an up-to-date OS. It's a small additional risk but really not that big at all compared to what you can do with Android sideloading or app installing on macOS/Windows, and not comparable at all to macOS kernel extensions or Windows drivers.
- Underpass9041 2y agoYes, absolutely. Part of the reason I’m very happy that people around me tend to use iPhones is that I have some base level confidence in what they’re installing. I don’t trust nearly anyone to make good decisions about what applications they are installing, given how much information cellphones have it’s untenable to have them installing random garbage because some website said so.
- solarkraft 2y agoFirst part: Not at all. Apps can‘t deeply integrate into the system and it’s always through very tightly defined APIs. Second part: Technically yes, practically no. Apps are still tightly bound by the system. Theoretically there can be exploits out of the app sandbox that could be caught before an app is released on the app store. But once the vulnerability it will quickly be closed - and while it‘s not known it also won’t be caught by the app store‘s automatic checks anyway, so it could also be inside of app store released apps.
- redwall_hp 2y agoNo, not at all. Security is an ongoing process of system design, nothing that the App Store can offer. iOS is designed with an aggressive sandboxing model with very strict permissions for accessing privacy-impacting APIs. The App Store, additionally, does include all sorts of scamware that was let through the screening process. Apps on iOS are strictly user space. They cannot run at a kernel level, which was the issue with CloudStrike. An oversight in CloudStrike's software, which assumed a downloaded file would never be in a broken state, prevented the system from booting. Technically, Microsoft requires approval for software that runs at the level of CloudStrike. So, clearly, a review process is not sufficient to prevent that issue either.
- solarkraft 2y agoNot enough. I still can’t install my smartwatch‘s app due to notarization. Apple should have NO say in what I can install on my phone.
- gigatexal 2y agoThe headline is so funny. It’s their store. It’s like folks think I can go into a supermarket and sell my wares without paying rent and having some sort of agreement …
- meiraleal 2y agoIt's the users phone. like a computer, we should be allowed to install whataever app we want.
- gigatexal 2y agoThat’s where Apple screwed up imo. I don’t think they’ll ever get to gatekeeper / macOS level of openness. But they could have relaxed on the restrictions and listened to their devs (offered free trials, etc) and lowered the take from 30 for one time payments to something less but in return could keep the store front idea. As long as they cling to the iPhone and the iPad as being appliances then the same sort of locked down approach of the consoles and their single vendor stores makes sense.