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The technology is impressive; achieving such a level requires a lot of efforts in dataset creation, neural architectural costs, and GPU shepherding. What is th
by espadrine 2y ago
The technology is impressive; achieving such a level requires a lot of efforts in dataset creation, neural architectural costs, and GPU shepherding.
What is the company’s ethical position though? It officially stemmed from Mr Musk’s objection that OpenAI was not open-source, but it too is not open-source. It followed Mr Musk’s letter to stop all AI development on frontier models, but it is a frontier model. It followed complaints that OpenAI trained on tweets, but it also trained on tweets.
Companies like Meta, Mistral, or DeepSeek, address those complaints better, and all now play in the big league.
- cheptsov 2y agoI entirely agree. I’m quite sure Musk has a very strong stance on ethics, but it would be great to hear about it more clearly, and ideally not just through words, but through actual actions.
- thomashop 2y agoA strong stance on ethics? Like his comments about unions and firing workers in the Twitter space with Trump yesterday?
- NekkoDroid 2y agoWell... he does have a strong stance on ethics, just not a positive one
- cheptsov 2y agoThe one you disagree with but why do you think all people think the same way as you?
- mdhb 2y agoI don’t understand why you’re playing dumb here. He is primarially known specifically as someone who is incredibly impulsive, is unable to differentiate fact from fiction and not actually interested in chasing any kind of objective truth in so much as that is possible. But multiple times per week now for a long time you can see him sharing and commenting on things that are provably wrong and I don’t mean in some kind of “it’s just a different opinion” kind of way. There is never any kind of introspection, never any kind of “oh I was wrong” just proceeds to roll immediately into the next round of bullshit. So, no… people don’t have any kind of assumption that he has “strong ethics”. Maybe you meant strong convictions? Because that he certainly does have.
- CaptWillard 2y ago"He is primarially known specifically as someone who is incredibly impulsive, is unable to differentiate fact from fiction and not actually interested in chasing any kind of objective truth" I'm sure you could make a case that these descriptors apply to him, not a particularly strong case, but ... You think he's primarily known for these things?
- meiraleal 2y agoHe wrongly accused a British of being a pedophille because he declined Elon's "help". That's the side of ethics you are standing for.
- ineedaj0b 2y agoI have met people who consider all meat eaters murderers. You will find yourself called unethical around different groups. Understanding what group you are in is important to keep in mind when judging others.
- llamaimperative 2y agoLol, a random person sharing their obvious opinion about ethics of eating meat is totally, undeniably different than one of the world's most powerful men legitimately and honestly accusing a rescue worker of being a pedophile. No one is going to get investigated or have their careers ruined because a vegan called them a murder, obviously. Unreal what sort of knots someone will tie themselves into to excuse this type of behavior.
- geodel 2y agoWell, In India one can get killed for eating beef or supplying beef. And there will be millions who would celebrate the murder. Your worldview seems limited to tweets and social media in first world.
- llamaimperative 2y agoThis isn't complicated. If you say something false in a context where it is likely to actually harm someone, or with the goal of actually harming someone, you're an asshole. Your level of assholeness rises in tandem with the expected harm of your falsehoods.
- Manabu-eo 2y agoHe tweeted "pedo guy" in response to the diver saying to "stick his submarine where it hurts". I don't see it as accusation as much as I don't see what the diver said as an order given to Musk. Both were just insulting each other.
- kergonath 2y ago> I’m quite sure Musk has a very strong stance on ethics His whole history tells otherwise.
- cheptsov 2y agoProfs?
- kergonath 2y agoIf you mean “proof”, then lol. Off the top of my head: - the pedo guy moment - the hyperloop smoke and mirrors which are actually just his campaign against public transport - the several union busting episodes - the whole “Tesla is going to save the world” thing - the multiple harassment cases - the multiple instances of overwork, discrimination, and general lack of any consideration for his staff - all the severance payments he failed to make after having fired a whole bunch of people - the stupid ultimatum before one of the firing episodes, plus the utterly stupid “show your work” thing that came just after - the multiple times he stiffed his creditors (either landlords, lawyers, contractors in general) or tried to do it - the way he tried to force open Tesla factories in the middle of the COVID pandemic - the multiple instances of pushing Russian propaganda verbatim (concerning.) - most of the Neuralink saga - the FSD vapourware that has been coming next year for a decade - the way he publicly disparaged people who were killed by their Tesla using telemetric data that are supposed to be confidential - the Media Matters lawsuit Well, I could go on. He’d need to work quite hard to reverse his public image of massive arsehole at this point.
- DennisP 2y agoI could push back on some of these but I mainly want to ask about this: > the way he publicly disparaged people who were killed by their Tesla using telemetric data that are supposed to be confidential In the cases I've seen, Tesla pulled data showing that the people "killed by their Tesla" were either not paying attention at all (contrary to Tesla's explicit warnings), or were driving without the automated features enabled after all despite initial media claims to the contrary. Is this what you consider "disparagement" or do you have more egregious examples?
- shafyy 2y agoHaha, good one!
- cheptsov 2y agoI’m not a fan of Musk but it is so funny to see that many haters here.
- worstspotgain 2y ago[flagged]
- bheadmaster 2y ago> Either way, it's impossible to have a level discussion about it because the Muskovites are arrow-clicking en force. Have you actually tried, or are you preemptively censoring yourself? Regardless, internet points shouldn't stop a person from speaking what's on their mind.
- worstspotgain 2y agoYes, I made a critical comment and it was instantly flagged.
- 1123581321 2y agoI think it was flagged because it was a pumpkin spice joke and “no thanks but no thanks.” Couching sharply critical comments in a few more explanatory lines would probably help the reaction. I see some longer comments from people who dislike Musk that are doing better.
- worstspotgain 2y agoIt was an emphatic way of criticizing the political motivations behind Musk's pushes into social media and AI, not a joke. Either way, the downvoting and flagging were almost instant, which I suspect might be the reason why this comment section is looking atypically pro-Musk overall.
- read_if_gay_ 2y ago[dead]
- n4r9 2y agoFor the benefit of non-US users, what is a "pumpkin spice joke" please?
- baq 2y ago“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” sounds like mr Musk is a conservative.
- dredmorbius 2y agoQuote's by Frank Wilhoit.
- ribelo 2y ago[flagged]
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y agoI'm not following.
- SequoiaHope 2y agoribelo is saying that "modern liberalism" can be characterized by a belief that "There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect." At least in leftist philosophical circles, which are what I am familiar with, this is a relatively common critique of liberalism. Another common rhetorical tactic in leftist critiques is to point out that the bad beliefs liberals often blame the conservatives for having are actually in practice tenants of modern liberalism too. For example both conservatives and liberals are in favor to some degree of using the military overseas to maintain global hegemony. I don't know if ribelo is leftist or not but in any case I can see what they are going for.
- Moto7451 2y agohttps://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservatives-frank-wilhoit.html https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservative... Here’s an interview with the actual author. The quote has its own interesting history.
- machdiamonds 2y agoPretty simple explanations for all of those: - xAI opens sources models with a 6 month lag, look at Grok 1 - No one else stopped development, so why should he? - He owns Twitter, why wouldn't it be okay for him to train on Tweets?
- DrSiemer 2y agoRegarding the last question: because nobody gave them permission to use that data. They tried to add a pre-checked mark to the settings, but at least in Europe, where we actually have consumer protection, that won't fly.
- polski-g 2y agoThe data is sitting in northern Virginia in a data center. It's no longer in Europe's jurisdiction.
- viraptor 2y ago> xAI opens sources models with a 6 month lag, look at Grok 1 That's what happened once, rather than a policy that we can expect to be applied. (Unless I missed some announcement?) Based on "we'll publish the algorithm" which ended up being a one-off partial snapshot, never updated afterwards, I wouldn't hold my breath for the models. > He owns Twitter, why wouldn't it be okay for him to train on Tweets? There's a whole thing about having clear opt-in agreement about how your data will be used for EU citizens. Twitter didn't comply here with their hidden opt-out strategy.
- handsclean 2y ago> He owns Twitter, why wouldn't it be okay for him to train on Tweets? Because he doesn’t own the tweets. Can you imagine if posting a photo you took to Twitter meant it’s not your photo anymore? Totally ridiculous.
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- dachworker 2y agoDon't take this as a pro-Musk or anti-Musk comment. I just want to paraphrase his reasoning: In a recent interview on Lex Fridman, he envisioned a future where humans augmented AI, through a brain to computer device like Neuralink would be able to keep up with pure AI. Now one can immediately notice a hole in this reasoning: namely what guarantees that the AI that is use to augment humans is going to be benevolent and won't go rogue?
- Palpatineli 2y agoNothing guarantees that. But in this augmentations scenario human brain is necessary, unlike in the many extinction scenarios with pure silicon AGI take off.
- alm1 2y agomaybe that humans are controlling the creation process and can terminate it when the AI versions are going increasingly "rogue"?
- kardianos 2y agoMusk has publicly stated his goal for AI is alignment with Truth, where truth is defined as to what corresponds with reality, not necessarily with the current social consensus. Specifically in terms of reason, given a set of facts, being able to reason to a real place, not just to a socially given answer.
- plorg 2y agoThen surely he wouldn't be training on tweets.
- GuB-42 2y agoWhich means essentially nothing. Most questions where alignment matter do not have a "true" answer, just a social consensus. You don't need an "aligned" AI to tell you the distance between the Earth and the Moon. You need an "aligned" AI to tell you not to rape people even if you can get away with it, that's because the idea that rape is bad is not an objective truth based on the laws of nature, it is a "social consensus".
- FloorEgg 2y agoThere is actually sound ethical reasoning for why rape is bad, that doesn't rely on social consensus. Truth isn't one fundamental thing, truth is what works. There are places in the world today that the social consensus is it's fine for a man to rape his wife. Social systems in these places don't work very well, and one can make a logical and well reasoned argument linking the social acceptance of rape to a myriad of other dysfunctions.
- alm1 2y agological or well reasoned argument doesn't equal a casual or factual relationship. The well reasoned arguments on many issues change over time, just take the same issue and go back in time 100 or 50 years to find much less consensus and much weaker logical links. Elon shows pretty consistently that truth for him is mostly just what Elon deems truthful or useful.
- sangnoir 2y ago> OpenAI trained on tweets, but it also trained on tweets Not only that - Grok is/was trained on ChatGPT output, which I suppose Musk felt was turnabout. When asked about its identity, the first Grok would respond like ChatGPT (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38584922 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38584922)
- bionhoward 2y agoUnfortunately, Grok is not even Open Output, nor is Mistral’s platform or DeepSeek’s. None of them can be used for work (mistral with a fancy commercial license, but you gotta jump through hoops) Only Meta’s Llama can be used for work. The rest are just toys for personal use noobs who don’t read the fine print.