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> “I feel trapped here,” Amanda said. “I’m financially screwed if I leave, and that’s why I don’t, or can’t leave.” This is so common. People are afraid of and

> “I feel trapped here,” Amanda said. “I’m financially screwed if I leave, and that’s why I don’t, or can’t leave.” This is so common. People are afraid of and unprepared for income and status setbacks. Sometimes you need to take a couple steps back to get back on track. (I’m currently taking a step back and I’m intimately familiar with the uncertainty of it.)

jt2190 2y ago
What is "taking a step back" exactly? Leaving a job that you don't like for one that you do like but pays less?
- fy20 2y ago
  That's the position I'm in. My current employer has not grown as they sold to me when I joined (they've actually got smaller) and has gone through a big cultural shift that doesn't jibe with me. I've received an offer from a company that seems to have a lot better alignment... But it pays 10% less. Meanwhile my current salary has not kept up with inflation over the past couple of years.
- mcsniff 2y ago
  IMO, it can also be a philosophical thing. "What do I want out of my one short life? To spend it toiling away unhappy 90% of the time and spend money trying to be happy the remaining 10% or find something I enjoy doing the majority of the time that can also pay some bills?" A lot of people are asking themselves these questions, and if you're not -- why not?
  - Loughla 2y ago
    I think there has also been a massive shift in the game though. More young people are seeing work as a means to an end instead of a calling. Jobs don't define people like they used to. So, trading your week days for money to do everything you want in the weekends is pretty okay now. Being a company (wo)man is sort of seen as being a class traitor? Maybe that's just because I work with low income college students, though.
    - marcuskane2 2y ago
      There was a period of time (80s-90s) that the American middle class was booming and thriving. Boomers with stable but unfulfilling jobs regretted not following their dreams, and the future looked bright, so they told their millenial kids to chase their passions and the money would follow. Then a generation of millenials collectively got millions of degrees in liberal arts and humanities, but the degrees didn't have any class-signaling power or economic value the way a college degree in 1970 did, so instead of getting cushy careers they ended up in low-paid, low-status unfulfilling jobs, with debt from a useless degree. Gen Z saw that happen and took a more practical view towards college, careers, etc.
      - razakel 2y ago
        And the stable unfulfilling jobs all went to China.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  It could be "pay cut for different domain" or "pay cut for better location but lower CoL". In a more extreme case you can re-spec to another industry altogether. You may not make anywhere close to what you made in tech, but you have 7 figures in stocks and 6 figures in savings anyway. Money is no longer a worry, why not follow a passion? In addition, it can be non-job motivations. e.g. you take a year off to travel for a bit, or engage in some hobby that you know won't make any income. I wouldn't mind doing some art classes if I ever got to that kind of money to live off of for years.
  - thr0w 2y ago
    > better location but lower CoL How does that work?
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      "better" is very subjective and doing a lot of heavy lifting, my apologies. The easy snarky response is "move from US to EU". But it can be a personal choice to simply get out of the metropolitan areas in favor of a quieter area, or one with better transportation or less crime or friendlier communities.
  - Copernicron 2y ago
    > you have 7 figures in stocks and 6 figures in savings anyway I honestly can’t tell if you’re serious here. I’ve been in tech for almost twenty years and the only way I could have 7 figures in stocks is if I still lived at home and didn’t contribute anything to the budget. There is a whole world of people working in tech outside of Silicon Valley’s ridiculous compensation. Money is still a concern for the vast majority of us. No one in my company has equity except the founder. On the off chance we actually get far enough for me to get equity I’ll be lucky to get $100k out of it.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      I'm a game dev so no worries, I'm about as far from the minmax total comp bubble as you can get. But yes, it was a purposeful use of extremes. Unless you rush to young retirement or are in that SV scene and move out, most people won't have the means to metaphorically move out to the pastures and become a farm hand. But that is in fact an option for a few in tech. I recall some 20+ year googling choosing to leave and pick up comedy as a career.
chasd00 2y ago
This is what’s called the “golden handcuffs “. You want to leave but the current job is pretty good and you likely won’t be able to find something better.
- paxys 2y ago
  "I want to leave but I have $2.5M worth of RSUs vesting in the next two years" = golden handcuffs. "I want to leave but if I do I may not be able to find another job and may not be able to pay rent" is instead the reality most Americans face.
  - charlie0 2y ago
    Golden handcuffs only happen because of lifestyle inflation that prevents you from building F U money. $2.5M is more than enough to retire on.
    - auntienomen 2y ago
      You can't retire until you get the $2.5M, and your employer isn't going to give it to you if quit early. That's what makes it handcuffs.
      - charlie0 2y ago
        Vesting period is generally 4 years, so while you're right, 4 years is a very short period of time to wear the cuffs.
    - marcuskane2 2y ago
      > $2.5M is more than enough to retire on For a single, childless person who wants to live a lower-middle class lifestyle in a low cost of living area, sure. But if you want to live in a decent location, you're looking at needing at least a million just for a house. That leaves 1.5 to generate income, so at a 3% safe withdrawal rate that's $45k per year. After taxes that's now like $35k. And you're not getting health insurance from employer so budget $6k per year for premiums (and be ready to pay out up to $6k per year more if you end up in the hospital). So in the end, you've got something like $20k-$29k per year to live on. That covers groceries, car maintenance/insurance/payments, upkeep on the house, phone, etc sufficiently for one person. But you're probably not joining your friends on their ski vacation or even going out for drinks with them too often. And of course, the whole thing falls apart with a family. The average cost of health insurance for a family of 4 is $24,000 per year.
jokoon 2y ago
I live in France, and financially I'm fine not working, I have a few savings, welfare is enough for me. What is truly problematic is the social isolation, the inactivity, and a feeling of not being included. I could go working any job for 20h per week if it did not feel alienating and so competitive and busy. The work mentality is survival of the fittest on steroids. Work is a binary ingroup or outgroup. People who are out are seen as undeserving and seen as lesser people. That's why people want to keep their job.
- 2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago
  given your financial situation, aren't you in a position to trade salary for satisfaction?
  - jokoon 2y ago
    sure but still can't get a job anyway

jt2190 2y ago

What is "taking a step back" exactly? Leaving a job that you don't like for one that you do like but pays less?

fy20 2y ago
That's the position I'm in. My current employer has not grown as they sold to me when I joined (they've actually got smaller) and has gone through a big cultural shift that doesn't jibe with me. I've received an offer from a company that seems to have a lot better alignment... But it pays 10% less. Meanwhile my current salary has not kept up with inflation over the past couple of years.
mcsniff 2y ago
IMO, it can also be a philosophical thing. "What do I want out of my one short life? To spend it toiling away unhappy 90% of the time and spend money trying to be happy the remaining 10% or find something I enjoy doing the majority of the time that can also pay some bills?" A lot of people are asking themselves these questions, and if you're not -- why not?
- Loughla 2y ago
  I think there has also been a massive shift in the game though. More young people are seeing work as a means to an end instead of a calling. Jobs don't define people like they used to. So, trading your week days for money to do everything you want in the weekends is pretty okay now. Being a company (wo)man is sort of seen as being a class traitor? Maybe that's just because I work with low income college students, though.
  - marcuskane2 2y ago
    There was a period of time (80s-90s) that the American middle class was booming and thriving. Boomers with stable but unfulfilling jobs regretted not following their dreams, and the future looked bright, so they told their millenial kids to chase their passions and the money would follow. Then a generation of millenials collectively got millions of degrees in liberal arts and humanities, but the degrees didn't have any class-signaling power or economic value the way a college degree in 1970 did, so instead of getting cushy careers they ended up in low-paid, low-status unfulfilling jobs, with debt from a useless degree. Gen Z saw that happen and took a more practical view towards college, careers, etc.
    - razakel 2y ago
      And the stable unfulfilling jobs all went to China.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
It could be "pay cut for different domain" or "pay cut for better location but lower CoL". In a more extreme case you can re-spec to another industry altogether. You may not make anywhere close to what you made in tech, but you have 7 figures in stocks and 6 figures in savings anyway. Money is no longer a worry, why not follow a passion? In addition, it can be non-job motivations. e.g. you take a year off to travel for a bit, or engage in some hobby that you know won't make any income. I wouldn't mind doing some art classes if I ever got to that kind of money to live off of for years.
- thr0w 2y ago
  > better location but lower CoL How does that work?
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    "better" is very subjective and doing a lot of heavy lifting, my apologies. The easy snarky response is "move from US to EU". But it can be a personal choice to simply get out of the metropolitan areas in favor of a quieter area, or one with better transportation or less crime or friendlier communities.
- Copernicron 2y ago
  > you have 7 figures in stocks and 6 figures in savings anyway I honestly can’t tell if you’re serious here. I’ve been in tech for almost twenty years and the only way I could have 7 figures in stocks is if I still lived at home and didn’t contribute anything to the budget. There is a whole world of people working in tech outside of Silicon Valley’s ridiculous compensation. Money is still a concern for the vast majority of us. No one in my company has equity except the founder. On the off chance we actually get far enough for me to get equity I’ll be lucky to get $100k out of it.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    I'm a game dev so no worries, I'm about as far from the minmax total comp bubble as you can get. But yes, it was a purposeful use of extremes. Unless you rush to young retirement or are in that SV scene and move out, most people won't have the means to metaphorically move out to the pastures and become a farm hand. But that is in fact an option for a few in tech. I recall some 20+ year googling choosing to leave and pick up comedy as a career.

chasd00 2y ago

This is what’s called the “golden handcuffs “. You want to leave but the current job is pretty good and you likely won’t be able to find something better.

paxys 2y ago
"I want to leave but I have $2.5M worth of RSUs vesting in the next two years" = golden handcuffs. "I want to leave but if I do I may not be able to find another job and may not be able to pay rent" is instead the reality most Americans face.
- charlie0 2y ago
  Golden handcuffs only happen because of lifestyle inflation that prevents you from building F U money. $2.5M is more than enough to retire on.
  - auntienomen 2y ago
    You can't retire until you get the $2.5M, and your employer isn't going to give it to you if quit early. That's what makes it handcuffs.
    - charlie0 2y ago
      Vesting period is generally 4 years, so while you're right, 4 years is a very short period of time to wear the cuffs.
  - marcuskane2 2y ago
    > $2.5M is more than enough to retire on For a single, childless person who wants to live a lower-middle class lifestyle in a low cost of living area, sure. But if you want to live in a decent location, you're looking at needing at least a million just for a house. That leaves 1.5 to generate income, so at a 3% safe withdrawal rate that's $45k per year. After taxes that's now like $35k. And you're not getting health insurance from employer so budget $6k per year for premiums (and be ready to pay out up to $6k per year more if you end up in the hospital). So in the end, you've got something like $20k-$29k per year to live on. That covers groceries, car maintenance/insurance/payments, upkeep on the house, phone, etc sufficiently for one person. But you're probably not joining your friends on their ski vacation or even going out for drinks with them too often. And of course, the whole thing falls apart with a family. The average cost of health insurance for a family of 4 is $24,000 per year.

jokoon 2y ago

I live in France, and financially I'm fine not working, I have a few savings, welfare is enough for me. What is truly problematic is the social isolation, the inactivity, and a feeling of not being included. I could go working any job for 20h per week if it did not feel alienating and so competitive and busy. The work mentality is survival of the fittest on steroids. Work is a binary ingroup or outgroup. People who are out are seen as undeserving and seen as lesser people. That's why people want to keep their job.

2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago
given your financial situation, aren't you in a position to trade salary for satisfaction?
- jokoon 2y ago
  sure but still can't get a job anyway