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"Refactoring for Growth" sounds like layoffs to me, as does the section of this post going into team structure, and yet there's no layoff announcement. Why not

"Refactoring for Growth" sounds like layoffs to me, as does the section of this post going into team structure, and yet there's no layoff announcement. Why not just "Growth for Growth"? Also, from the FAQ: > What happens when cars ship with openpilot-quality ADAS? > Have the auto manufacturers even shipped you a CarPlay-level infotainment system? How about OTA updates? This level of snark is fun, but I don't want the hardware/software driving my car to be "fun" I want it to be serious. So much of Comma.ai feels unserious like this, it's interesting on a technical level, but the vibe is just way off. They charge $1000 to talk to their VP of business development... like they don't want to, err, develop the business? Wouldn't partnering with car manufacturers be a great idea here? Isn't it weird to be so against that sort of partnership? And they're seeking donations for getting their software to work on Toyota cars. Everything sounds like it's just a bunch of hackers, which, again, is cool, but not something I'd drive and I consider myself somewhat in that category. Why would anyone without a GitHub account and a soldering iron in a drawer somewhere use this? This annoys me because I think the product is a great idea, particularly for low/mid-range cars that might not have the functionality built-in. It just seems to be hampered by weird marketing.

chairmanwow1 2y ago
You don’t need a github account or a soldering iron to use this.
- SkyPuncher 2y ago
  I think they’re being a bit facetious, but the underlying point stands. You need a DIY attitude. And not just a we renovated our bathroom DIY attitude you have to be really willing to dig into understand how and why this works and where it’s gonna not work correctly with your particular vehicle. It’s already an expensive device that goes in an expensive vehicle driving on public roads where you can get cited tickets or possible liability if the thing really misbehaves and getting an accident with it. I consider myself extremely DIY/hacker and this is one of the things that I’ve really struggled to get past the mental hurdles.
  - denimnerd42 2y ago
    i took the leap and it's been more than I could have wished for. i don't have a ton of miles, maybe 10k miles but no issues. it's just level 2 driving which is better than anything OEMs offer.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      how does it compare to Blue Cruise on Ford vehicles?
      - denimnerd42 2y ago
        blue cruise isnt available on my full road trip route.
    - Nk26 2y ago
      Same, I love mine, I really wanted what basic autopilot gives in a Tesla in my Highlander and it does that incredibly well.
      - mscbuck 2y ago
        I also really love mine. It has done what it has advertised extremely well, in my opinion. Makes driving chill. I have a '24 Ioniq with HDA2 and it's a night and day difference between Comma's implementation of HDA/LKAS and stock. If the stock version is like a 3/10, OpenPilot is like a 8 or 9/10. Stock HDA would just turn off randomly in the middle of turns. Its LKAS was very jerky which not only scares you, but scares other people on the road as well.
  - danpalmer 2y ago
    Thank you, I was being sarcastic, like the marketing material I highlighted in fact. I don't think it's so much the DIY nature that bothers me, at least it's not the first issue I'm hitting, it's the unseriousness of it all. Maybe if this was being sold by a major car manufacturer in its current form, I might start to think about how DIY it feels, but I think that would be easier to get over because it's visible. As it is, it's the invisible aspects, like the software that's so critical to things like this, which bothers me coming from a company with this sort of attitude.
icelancer 2y ago
> Wouldn't partnering with car manufacturers be a great idea here? Isn't it weird to be so against that sort of partnership? They aren't against this at all. They think their product isn't good enough for this and would prefer to go it their own way for now. > Why would anyone without a GitHub account and a soldering iron in a drawer somewhere use this? They largely wouldn't, yet. geohot et al are aware of that and don't care. Not sure what the problem is. The product isn't good enough, they're working on it, they want open source + bounties to improve the product, and yet the product is profitable. It's early. Furthermore, nothing is stopping anyone from developing a competitor and getting into the driverless / ADAS field themselves. But no one has. So I'll take the man in the arena over... well, nothing.
- KTibow 2y ago
  They do care, on their Twitter they say they want to get it into Best Buy someday
- danpalmer 2y ago
  Charging $1000 to talk to their business development person does not suggest taking partnerships seriously to me. I understand that the product might not be ready to go mainstream but that's not what the marketing says to me, in fact much of their marketing says they are better than the competition, and having followed the company for years they've been through cycles of saying it's amazing and saying it's not good enough. Honestly I feel like the whole thing is just whatever geohot is feeling each day, but I don't know, I hope there's more strategy than that.
  - icelancer 2y ago
    > Charging $1000 to talk to their business development person does not suggest taking partnerships seriously to me. A GM at Ford won't be paying this. That's for jabronis and randoms who want to pitch nonsense. I think the price is fine. Mostly it's a form to say "I don't want to talk to you." He could just say that, but people would be mad as well. No reason to take phone calls from random "business development" people anyway as a startup.
alchemist1e9 2y ago
No layoffs! You’re conditioned by mainstream tech euphemisms to think that from this post. geohot is straightforward type. > We’re growing the team by ~5 people to help solve autonomy, improve the product, and scale up production. You’ll hear more about each team in the following posts from the head of each team. > Check out our new leaderboard and jobs page. It’s got some fun programming challenges that also happen to be hiring challenges.
- lolinder 2y ago
  > You’re conditioned by mainstream tech euphemisms to think that from this post. In other words, mainstream usage would suggest the interpretation that these are layoffs but comma.ai is either ignorant of this, doesn't care, or deliberately used the language as clickbait. When it comes to language you don't get to blame "mainstream euphemisms" for your own failure to communicate—you work with the language that people actually speak or you risk miscommunication.
  - danpalmer 2y ago
    I completely agree. Communicating in this way is definitely not being "straightforward". It's either ignorant and tone deaf or just snarky.
  - stavros 2y ago
    OK, this thread has generally been shitting on comma, but this comment broke the camel's back for me. Is your line of reasoning seriously "other companies misuse words to cushion their shittiness" -> "Comma used the words as they are meant, and didn't have any shittiness to need to hide" -> "we're used to everyone misleading us with those words and Comma didn't" -> "Comma is misleading us by not misleading us"? That's... an amazing syllogism.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      I frankly don't care about Comma at all, I care about language. When most people reading a bit of writing interpret it one way, they're right and the author is wrong. That's all.
dhosek 2y ago
I’m not looking for a job, but out of curiosity, I looked at their jobs page and saw that one of their benefits was two meals a day. Umm—I’d prefer not to work somewhere where I was eating two meals a day at the office.
- denimnerd42 2y ago
  you couldn't see yourself eating breakfast at 8 or 9 and lunch at 12-1 every day? two meals is a perk at my job and it's great. one of my friends at another job with same benefit doesn't have kids so he goes to work at 11 and eats lunch and then stays for dinner too.
  - ipaddr 2y ago
    I can't see trying to get to work without a breakfast first. But having two lunches isn't the worst idea.
- lopkeny12ko 2y ago
  What's the point you're trying to make here? That the role is bad because it implies needing to work from an office? Or that the daily hours are long enough to cross the boundaries of two meal times? Or you take offense to the idea that meals are eaten in the office, as opposed to somewhere else? I'm beyond confused.
  - danpalmer 2y ago
    I think the point is that the wording doesn't distinguish on the workplace, so it reads as the benefit being "you get to have 2 meals a day" in general life, which for most people having 3 meals a day would feel restrictive and overbearing that their employer would be dictating such details of their life. I'm sure it was actually intended as "2 free meals at work", and while it may just be poor written communication, it could also speak to an assumption about how much work defines the lives of the employees.
  - IshKebab 2y ago
    He was talking about the long hours. Normal office hours do not span two meals.
shon 2y ago
> Everything sounds like it's just a bunch of hackers It is! This is run by George Hotz, aka geohot, aka the kid who cracked the iPhone SIM lock at 17yo, released the 1-click jailbreak for iOS before he was 20, and then went ahead and cracked the PS3 shortly after and released Sony’s private key (used to sign all PS3 software) for all the world to see. He’s a beast. Now he’s doing Tinygrad and Comma. You won’t be seeing Corpo-speak from this guy or his team lol. Cool to see him doing well and doing it his own way.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- phowat 2y ago
  Exactly! And I would expect hacker news of all places to understand that.
- jsmith12673 2y ago
  Didn't geohot leave Comma like ~2 years ago
  - zeroq 2y ago
    He left Coma for tinycorp the same way Elon left SpaceX for Twitter.
    - Rebelgecko 2y ago
      Didn't Geohot also leave for twitter?
      - danpalmer 2y ago
        He was only at Twitter for a few weeks, maybe a few months before quitting because it turns out things are A Bit More Complicated Than That TM. This is one of the reasons why I would feel weird about entrusting my life to Comma.ai. I'm not that keen on Move Fast and Break Things when the things are my bones.
      - 2y ago
spencerchubb 2y ago
> Everything sounds like it's just a bunch of hackers Are you aware of what website you are commenting on?
- sangnoir 2y ago
  A side-project for a very famous early-stage startup VC fund that offers advice, networking and mentorship so that hackers aren't just winging it?
Kiro 2y ago
I will refer to this comment the next time anyone complains about enterprise speak in announcements.
- stavros 2y ago
  Eh, no matter what you do, you can't please all people. Some people like the corporate speak, some hate it. I got the reverse a lot, where people recommended movies or shows as ABSOLUTELY THE BEST THING EVER, and I watched them and hated them. That's when I realized that there will always be people that love or hate any given thing, and feedback should be considered in aggregate.
netdevnet 2y ago
Did you actually read the article? They are just re organising their teams and are actually recruiting 5 more people
imtringued 2y ago
You don't need a soldering iron to install it, so your entire comment comes off as rude, dismissive and ignorant.

chairmanwow1 2y ago

You don’t need a github account or a soldering iron to use this.

SkyPuncher 2y ago
I think they’re being a bit facetious, but the underlying point stands. You need a DIY attitude. And not just a we renovated our bathroom DIY attitude you have to be really willing to dig into understand how and why this works and where it’s gonna not work correctly with your particular vehicle. It’s already an expensive device that goes in an expensive vehicle driving on public roads where you can get cited tickets or possible liability if the thing really misbehaves and getting an accident with it. I consider myself extremely DIY/hacker and this is one of the things that I’ve really struggled to get past the mental hurdles.
- denimnerd42 2y ago
  i took the leap and it's been more than I could have wished for. i don't have a ton of miles, maybe 10k miles but no issues. it's just level 2 driving which is better than anything OEMs offer.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    how does it compare to Blue Cruise on Ford vehicles?
    - denimnerd42 2y ago
      blue cruise isnt available on my full road trip route.
  - Nk26 2y ago
    Same, I love mine, I really wanted what basic autopilot gives in a Tesla in my Highlander and it does that incredibly well.
    - mscbuck 2y ago
      I also really love mine. It has done what it has advertised extremely well, in my opinion. Makes driving chill. I have a '24 Ioniq with HDA2 and it's a night and day difference between Comma's implementation of HDA/LKAS and stock. If the stock version is like a 3/10, OpenPilot is like a 8 or 9/10. Stock HDA would just turn off randomly in the middle of turns. Its LKAS was very jerky which not only scares you, but scares other people on the road as well.
- danpalmer 2y ago
  Thank you, I was being sarcastic, like the marketing material I highlighted in fact. I don't think it's so much the DIY nature that bothers me, at least it's not the first issue I'm hitting, it's the unseriousness of it all. Maybe if this was being sold by a major car manufacturer in its current form, I might start to think about how DIY it feels, but I think that would be easier to get over because it's visible. As it is, it's the invisible aspects, like the software that's so critical to things like this, which bothers me coming from a company with this sort of attitude.

icelancer 2y ago

> Wouldn't partnering with car manufacturers be a great idea here? Isn't it weird to be so against that sort of partnership? They aren't against this at all. They think their product isn't good enough for this and would prefer to go it their own way for now. > Why would anyone without a GitHub account and a soldering iron in a drawer somewhere use this? They largely wouldn't, yet. geohot et al are aware of that and don't care. Not sure what the problem is. The product isn't good enough, they're working on it, they want open source + bounties to improve the product, and yet the product is profitable. It's early. Furthermore, nothing is stopping anyone from developing a competitor and getting into the driverless / ADAS field themselves. But no one has. So I'll take the man in the arena over... well, nothing.

KTibow 2y ago
They do care, on their Twitter they say they want to get it into Best Buy someday
danpalmer 2y ago
Charging $1000 to talk to their business development person does not suggest taking partnerships seriously to me. I understand that the product might not be ready to go mainstream but that's not what the marketing says to me, in fact much of their marketing says they are better than the competition, and having followed the company for years they've been through cycles of saying it's amazing and saying it's not good enough. Honestly I feel like the whole thing is just whatever geohot is feeling each day, but I don't know, I hope there's more strategy than that.
- icelancer 2y ago
  > Charging $1000 to talk to their business development person does not suggest taking partnerships seriously to me. A GM at Ford won't be paying this. That's for jabronis and randoms who want to pitch nonsense. I think the price is fine. Mostly it's a form to say "I don't want to talk to you." He could just say that, but people would be mad as well. No reason to take phone calls from random "business development" people anyway as a startup.

alchemist1e9 2y ago

No layoffs! You’re conditioned by mainstream tech euphemisms to think that from this post. geohot is straightforward type. > We’re growing the team by ~5 people to help solve autonomy, improve the product, and scale up production. You’ll hear more about each team in the following posts from the head of each team. > Check out our new leaderboard and jobs page. It’s got some fun programming challenges that also happen to be hiring challenges.

lolinder 2y ago
> You’re conditioned by mainstream tech euphemisms to think that from this post. In other words, mainstream usage would suggest the interpretation that these are layoffs but comma.ai is either ignorant of this, doesn't care, or deliberately used the language as clickbait. When it comes to language you don't get to blame "mainstream euphemisms" for your own failure to communicate—you work with the language that people actually speak or you risk miscommunication.
- danpalmer 2y ago
  I completely agree. Communicating in this way is definitely not being "straightforward". It's either ignorant and tone deaf or just snarky.
- stavros 2y ago
  OK, this thread has generally been shitting on comma, but this comment broke the camel's back for me. Is your line of reasoning seriously "other companies misuse words to cushion their shittiness" -> "Comma used the words as they are meant, and didn't have any shittiness to need to hide" -> "we're used to everyone misleading us with those words and Comma didn't" -> "Comma is misleading us by not misleading us"? That's... an amazing syllogism.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    I frankly don't care about Comma at all, I care about language. When most people reading a bit of writing interpret it one way, they're right and the author is wrong. That's all.

dhosek 2y ago

I’m not looking for a job, but out of curiosity, I looked at their jobs page and saw that one of their benefits was two meals a day. Umm—I’d prefer not to work somewhere where I was eating two meals a day at the office.

denimnerd42 2y ago
you couldn't see yourself eating breakfast at 8 or 9 and lunch at 12-1 every day? two meals is a perk at my job and it's great. one of my friends at another job with same benefit doesn't have kids so he goes to work at 11 and eats lunch and then stays for dinner too.
- ipaddr 2y ago
  I can't see trying to get to work without a breakfast first. But having two lunches isn't the worst idea.
lopkeny12ko 2y ago
What's the point you're trying to make here? That the role is bad because it implies needing to work from an office? Or that the daily hours are long enough to cross the boundaries of two meal times? Or you take offense to the idea that meals are eaten in the office, as opposed to somewhere else? I'm beyond confused.
- danpalmer 2y ago
  I think the point is that the wording doesn't distinguish on the workplace, so it reads as the benefit being "you get to have 2 meals a day" in general life, which for most people having 3 meals a day would feel restrictive and overbearing that their employer would be dictating such details of their life. I'm sure it was actually intended as "2 free meals at work", and while it may just be poor written communication, it could also speak to an assumption about how much work defines the lives of the employees.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  He was talking about the long hours. Normal office hours do not span two meals.

shon 2y ago

> Everything sounds like it's just a bunch of hackers It is! This is run by George Hotz, aka geohot, aka the kid who cracked the iPhone SIM lock at 17yo, released the 1-click jailbreak for iOS before he was 20, and then went ahead and cracked the PS3 shortly after and released Sony’s private key (used to sign all PS3 software) for all the world to see. He’s a beast. Now he’s doing Tinygrad and Comma. You won’t be seeing Corpo-speak from this guy or his team lol. Cool to see him doing well and doing it his own way.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
phowat 2y ago
Exactly! And I would expect hacker news of all places to understand that.
jsmith12673 2y ago
Didn't geohot leave Comma like ~2 years ago
- zeroq 2y ago
  He left Coma for tinycorp the same way Elon left SpaceX for Twitter.
  - Rebelgecko 2y ago
    Didn't Geohot also leave for twitter?
    - danpalmer 2y ago
      He was only at Twitter for a few weeks, maybe a few months before quitting because it turns out things are A Bit More Complicated Than That TM. This is one of the reasons why I would feel weird about entrusting my life to Comma.ai. I'm not that keen on Move Fast and Break Things when the things are my bones.
    - 2y ago

spencerchubb 2y ago

> Everything sounds like it's just a bunch of hackers Are you aware of what website you are commenting on?

sangnoir 2y ago
A side-project for a very famous early-stage startup VC fund that offers advice, networking and mentorship so that hackers aren't just winging it?

Kiro 2y ago

I will refer to this comment the next time anyone complains about enterprise speak in announcements.

stavros 2y ago
Eh, no matter what you do, you can't please all people. Some people like the corporate speak, some hate it. I got the reverse a lot, where people recommended movies or shows as ABSOLUTELY THE BEST THING EVER, and I watched them and hated them. That's when I realized that there will always be people that love or hate any given thing, and feedback should be considered in aggregate.

netdevnet 2y ago

Did you actually read the article? They are just re organising their teams and are actually recruiting 5 more people

imtringued 2y ago

You don't need a soldering iron to install it, so your entire comment comes off as rude, dismissive and ignorant.