5 ms·

Anybody else finding that the need for upgrades slowed down dramatically? Did a 3700X -> 5800x3D upgrade for a last gasp of AM4 and at this pace I'll probably

by Havoc 2y ago

Anybody else finding that the need for upgrades slowed down dramatically? Did a 3700X -> 5800x3D upgrade for a last gasp of AM4 and at this pace I'll probably wait till what zen 6? 7?

BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
I use a 3700X and have had no reason to upgrade yet.
drbscl 2y ago
Same here; at this point I'll probably only upgrade when CAMM2 becomes more widespread
noelwelsh 2y ago
Outside of niche areas, I think programmers can easily go at least 5 years without needing an upgrade. The average office worker can probably use recent hardware until it breaks. My 2016 Macbook would be fine for day-to-day work if the battery wasn't completely dead. My current laptop (M1) and desktop (3600) are both 2020 models and fine for most programming tasks.
- rubslopes 2y ago
  Also my experience. My macbook air M1 16gb of ram still is all I need for my programming work.
  - attendant3446 2y ago
    Depends on what you do, I found that without the active cooling it throttles a lot. The similar MBP worked great.
- duffyjp 2y ago
  My wife's PC is a i7-2600 circa 2011. I have the ram maxed out, an SSD, and an nvidia card and for day-to-day stuff you'd never know it wasn't brand new-- seriously. It even runs Windows 11 perfectly with the Rufus modified installer. If you're chasing FPS in AAA games it's not going to cut it, but it boots in seconds, loads apps quickly, plays streaming video perfectly...
the_duke 2y ago
Depends on what you are working on. For Rust and C++ compilation fast CPU/RAM/SSD makes a massive difference, so I'm always eager to upgrade to the latest and greatest.
- hansvm 2y ago
  > my language doesn't care about compilation speed, so I'm generating e-waste at a significant personal expense to compensate That isn't a personal critique, even sounding like a perfectly rational decision, but if anyone here is working on a language (or any other software) of any popularity, it's worth keeping those sorts of negative second-order effects in mind.
  - tarnith 2y ago
    This is an odd critique. Many interpreted languages consume easily upwards of 50x the energy at runtime...
    - hansvm 2y ago
      > Compiled language authors shouldn't write faster compilers because interpreted languages exist My point is that the costs of those particular compiled languages is high enough that it's worth some additional investment in speed, regardless of the existence of interpreted languages.
      - the_duke 2y ago
        > the costs of those particular compiled languages is high enough Only if we are talking developer experience. Even if you are working on something almost no-one uses. Spending a bit of time , or even hours, compiling, will be dwarfed by running more efficient code. Just remember that there are billions of devices constantly (re)JITing Javascript code...
  - fluoridation 2y ago
    It's unclear who you're criticizing. The developer who uses a compiled language (even though all things considered compiled languages are generally more efficient)? The compiler developer who doesn't optimize the compiler (even though it's unclear compilers could be much faster)? Also, why do you think upgrading a computer intrinsically leads to e-waste? I've kept or given away every computer I've bought that still works. Why wouldn't I, when it's still perfectly capable of doing useful work.
Finnucane 2y ago
I upgraded my 3900 to a 5900, and it is quite adequate for my needs. If the next upgrade means a new motherboard, ram, etc. I can wait until the difference is worth it.
- Havoc 2y ago
  Yeah that has me a little spooked too. Ideally want a 4K HDR gaming setup...that means fancy monitor and fancy GPU...equals many thousands cost
2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
I'm on an 11 year old CPU :) The slowest things are videos that lack hardware acceleration. These fancy new video encodings are a form of forced obsolescence IMO.
- botanical 2y ago
  AV1 really consumes CPU but x265 and VP9 are easy on the CPU with software decoding.
- ewzimm 2y ago
  I'm a huge fan of 11-year-old CPUs. 2013 was the last year AMD released processors without the PSP. Not fit for every task, but for most general computing it's indistinguishable from the latest hardware. I like having a computer where everything is accessible. 2013 was also the last year NVIDIA released GPUs without signed firmware.
- kvemkon 2y ago
  > The slowest things are ... and code using C++ templates and new C++1x/2x features. And compilation in general because code base grows over time.
- baal80spam 2y ago
  A shot in the dark - i5-3570K? This is the one I use!
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
    1680v2 and before that 4930k
viraptor 2y ago
It's the same across almost all tech. Phones, tablets, laptops, CPUs, GPUs, displays, TVs. Unless you have specific needs at work or chase the most recent games, the need to update almost went away. I'm still on i5-9300 in my laptop and will happily use it till it dies. (Then look at the battery life in the replacement before considering performance at all)
jjice 2y ago
I'm in a similar boat. I'm rocking 3600 that I purchase in Feb 2020. I'd love a reason to upgrade, but I really can't justify it for my personal machine. It still does everything I want faster than I'd like. I'm personally just going to hold off until I need to so I can enjoy a massive improvement in a few years.
WithinReason 2y ago
I'll wait for AM6, in 2 years maybe
reginald78 2y ago
What was your opinion on the 5800x3D upgrade? I'm thinking of doing the same transition but haven't really had any performance complaints with my 3700X. I feel like the supply of 5800x3D will probably disappear pretty soon and the close out prices with it. I'm to lazy do a whole platform upgrade.
- wtallis 2y ago
  > I feel like the supply of 5800x3D will probably disappear pretty soon and the close out prices with it. AMD has introduced several new 5000-series processors this year, including the 5700X3D that's basically a 5800X3D with slightly lower clock speed. They're not cutting off production of these parts any time soon.
- jq-r 2y ago
  I went from 2700 to 5800X3D and the difference is absolutely dramatic and well worth it. Originally I had a 1440p monitor with Geforce 1080 which was fine. Then I bought a 4K monitor and it brought it down to it's knees. Then upgraded to 3080 and there definitely was an improvement, but FPS was still unacceptably low so upgraded to that X3D processor. It's a beast and I play most games on 140+fps.
stracer 2y ago
Yep, after Zen 3-4/Alder Lake, we're now in another stagnation cycle like Intel Sandy Bridge brought in 2010-2015. For casual users, a good test if it's time to upgrade is - has the CPU speed, the memory speed doubled? If not, for most people, it's better to keep your old device. For competitive gamers, smaller gains make sense, but it gets expensive fast.
TacticalCoder 2y ago
> Anybody else finding that the need for upgrades slowed down dramatically? It's kinda random for me: at some point I used a Core i7 6th-gen (6700 then replaced the 6700 with a 6700K: long story) for seven years, something insane like that. Then got a 3700X, upgraded after a year or so to a 7700X and I'm now seriously considering the 9700X (for the lower TDP and +12% on single-core perfs and maybe, at long last, some ECC). But then I did put a process in place: when I buy a new machine, my wife gets my old one (so she now has the 3700X) and my mother-in-law gets the old-old one (so she's got the 6700K atm). Basically: I feel good about upgrading my machine because everybody gets a faster machine when I upgrade. I'll probably add my daughter into the mix too.
imtringued 2y ago
I'm still on 2700, crickets. My last upgrade was so I could have 32GB RAM, not better CPU performance.

by Havoc 2y ago

Anybody else finding that the need for upgrades slowed down dramatically? Did a 3700X -> 5800x3D upgrade for a last gasp of AM4 and at this pace I'll probably wait till what zen 6? 7?

BugsJustFindMe 2y ago

I use a 3700X and have had no reason to upgrade yet.

drbscl 2y ago

Same here; at this point I'll probably only upgrade when CAMM2 becomes more widespread

noelwelsh 2y ago

Outside of niche areas, I think programmers can easily go at least 5 years without needing an upgrade. The average office worker can probably use recent hardware until it breaks. My 2016 Macbook would be fine for day-to-day work if the battery wasn't completely dead. My current laptop (M1) and desktop (3600) are both 2020 models and fine for most programming tasks.

rubslopes 2y ago
Also my experience. My macbook air M1 16gb of ram still is all I need for my programming work.
- attendant3446 2y ago
  Depends on what you do, I found that without the active cooling it throttles a lot. The similar MBP worked great.
duffyjp 2y ago
My wife's PC is a i7-2600 circa 2011. I have the ram maxed out, an SSD, and an nvidia card and for day-to-day stuff you'd never know it wasn't brand new-- seriously. It even runs Windows 11 perfectly with the Rufus modified installer. If you're chasing FPS in AAA games it's not going to cut it, but it boots in seconds, loads apps quickly, plays streaming video perfectly...

the_duke 2y ago

Depends on what you are working on. For Rust and C++ compilation fast CPU/RAM/SSD makes a massive difference, so I'm always eager to upgrade to the latest and greatest.

hansvm 2y ago
> my language doesn't care about compilation speed, so I'm generating e-waste at a significant personal expense to compensate That isn't a personal critique, even sounding like a perfectly rational decision, but if anyone here is working on a language (or any other software) of any popularity, it's worth keeping those sorts of negative second-order effects in mind.
- tarnith 2y ago
  This is an odd critique. Many interpreted languages consume easily upwards of 50x the energy at runtime...
  - hansvm 2y ago
    > Compiled language authors shouldn't write faster compilers because interpreted languages exist My point is that the costs of those particular compiled languages is high enough that it's worth some additional investment in speed, regardless of the existence of interpreted languages.
    - the_duke 2y ago
      > the costs of those particular compiled languages is high enough Only if we are talking developer experience. Even if you are working on something almost no-one uses. Spending a bit of time , or even hours, compiling, will be dwarfed by running more efficient code. Just remember that there are billions of devices constantly (re)JITing Javascript code...
- fluoridation 2y ago
  It's unclear who you're criticizing. The developer who uses a compiled language (even though all things considered compiled languages are generally more efficient)? The compiler developer who doesn't optimize the compiler (even though it's unclear compilers could be much faster)? Also, why do you think upgrading a computer intrinsically leads to e-waste? I've kept or given away every computer I've bought that still works. Why wouldn't I, when it's still perfectly capable of doing useful work.

Finnucane 2y ago

I upgraded my 3900 to a 5900, and it is quite adequate for my needs. If the next upgrade means a new motherboard, ram, etc. I can wait until the difference is worth it.

Havoc 2y ago
Yeah that has me a little spooked too. Ideally want a 4K HDR gaming setup...that means fancy monitor and fancy GPU...equals many thousands cost

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago

I'm on an 11 year old CPU :) The slowest things are videos that lack hardware acceleration. These fancy new video encodings are a form of forced obsolescence IMO.

botanical 2y ago
AV1 really consumes CPU but x265 and VP9 are easy on the CPU with software decoding.
ewzimm 2y ago
I'm a huge fan of 11-year-old CPUs. 2013 was the last year AMD released processors without the PSP. Not fit for every task, but for most general computing it's indistinguishable from the latest hardware. I like having a computer where everything is accessible. 2013 was also the last year NVIDIA released GPUs without signed firmware.
kvemkon 2y ago
> The slowest things are ... and code using C++ templates and new C++1x/2x features. And compilation in general because code base grows over time.
baal80spam 2y ago
A shot in the dark - i5-3570K? This is the one I use!
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  1680v2 and before that 4930k

viraptor 2y ago

It's the same across almost all tech. Phones, tablets, laptops, CPUs, GPUs, displays, TVs. Unless you have specific needs at work or chase the most recent games, the need to update almost went away. I'm still on i5-9300 in my laptop and will happily use it till it dies. (Then look at the battery life in the replacement before considering performance at all)

jjice 2y ago

I'm in a similar boat. I'm rocking 3600 that I purchase in Feb 2020. I'd love a reason to upgrade, but I really can't justify it for my personal machine. It still does everything I want faster than I'd like. I'm personally just going to hold off until I need to so I can enjoy a massive improvement in a few years.

WithinReason 2y ago

I'll wait for AM6, in 2 years maybe

reginald78 2y ago

What was your opinion on the 5800x3D upgrade? I'm thinking of doing the same transition but haven't really had any performance complaints with my 3700X. I feel like the supply of 5800x3D will probably disappear pretty soon and the close out prices with it. I'm to lazy do a whole platform upgrade.

wtallis 2y ago
> I feel like the supply of 5800x3D will probably disappear pretty soon and the close out prices with it. AMD has introduced several new 5000-series processors this year, including the 5700X3D that's basically a 5800X3D with slightly lower clock speed. They're not cutting off production of these parts any time soon.
jq-r 2y ago
I went from 2700 to 5800X3D and the difference is absolutely dramatic and well worth it. Originally I had a 1440p monitor with Geforce 1080 which was fine. Then I bought a 4K monitor and it brought it down to it's knees. Then upgraded to 3080 and there definitely was an improvement, but FPS was still unacceptably low so upgraded to that X3D processor. It's a beast and I play most games on 140+fps.

stracer 2y ago

Yep, after Zen 3-4/Alder Lake, we're now in another stagnation cycle like Intel Sandy Bridge brought in 2010-2015. For casual users, a good test if it's time to upgrade is - has the CPU speed, the memory speed doubled? If not, for most people, it's better to keep your old device. For competitive gamers, smaller gains make sense, but it gets expensive fast.

TacticalCoder 2y ago

> Anybody else finding that the need for upgrades slowed down dramatically? It's kinda random for me: at some point I used a Core i7 6th-gen (6700 then replaced the 6700 with a 6700K: long story) for seven years, something insane like that. Then got a 3700X, upgraded after a year or so to a 7700X and I'm now seriously considering the 9700X (for the lower TDP and +12% on single-core perfs and maybe, at long last, some ECC). But then I did put a process in place: when I buy a new machine, my wife gets my old one (so she now has the 3700X) and my mother-in-law gets the old-old one (so she's got the 6700K atm). Basically: I feel good about upgrading my machine because everybody gets a faster machine when I upgrade. I'll probably add my daughter into the mix too.

imtringued 2y ago

I'm still on 2700, crickets. My last upgrade was so I could have 32GB RAM, not better CPU performance.