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Let's put on my "end user" hat for a moment: > Firstly the 60% have chosen iOS Have we really made an informed choice or did I just go into a store to "buy a

by isodev 2y ago

Let's put on my "end user" hat for a moment: > Firstly the 60% have chosen iOS Have we really made an informed choice or did I just go into a store to "buy a phone". I don't recall a booklet with each device what you can and can't do on it? e.g. iPhone "can't play Fortnite, Apple temporarily doesn't like Epic" would have been a good warning. > They are not "hostage" they can leave I think if you try changing ecosystems today, you will realise it's a very painful process. Apple and Google don't interoperate, don't follow standards (or just invent their own) and there are aspects of both ecosystems that are closed so no "move my stuff" app can ever be smooth and feature complete. Also, how do I convince my family and friends to switch so we don't downgrade to a green bubble situation.

bruce511 2y ago
It's been close to 20 years since iPhone shipped. None of these restrictions are new. There are pros and cons to any consumer choice. I think users are well informed an making their choice explicitly. Yes, both eco systems employ lock-in and network-effects to keep customers. And yes that is an issue (separate from the app store issue.) It may interest you to know that outside the US (and some parts of Europe) Apple has a smaller network share and people avoid the green bubble effect by using alternate messengers (mostly WhatsApp). There are -choices- which you may or may not like. In the US folk have largely -chosen- to use iPhones despite Fortnite.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- isodev 2y ago
  > None of these restrictions are new. What's new is that Apple/Google now effectively control our lives. Their presence is everywhere. And so yes, in this case it really matters what happens in every ecosystem. These corporations are effectively dictating policy for how my life is supposed to work, although nobody elected them, there is no oversight. I live in Europe, so both Apple and Google are really an ocean away in terms of mindset and values.
  - jonnybgood 2y ago
    How are they controlling your life? How are they dictating how your life is suppose to work?
    - isodev 2y ago
      By controlling which apps I can install and how I can pay for things.
      - zahllos 2y ago
        I have a possible workaround for the "how can I pay for things" part: don't use Goopple wallet, carry a card (and maybe some cash)? Tap to pay is your phone emulating an iso14443 smart card, which is what a contactless bank card is. Carrying a card is of course another thing to carry, but on the plus side they don't need charging every 24h and they won't be old tech next year when the iPhoxel n+1 incrementally better edition is released.
        heavyset_go 2y ago
        All apps on the App Store force you to use Apple's payment methods, and all apps on the Play Store force you to use Google's.
      - EricE 2y ago
        Yup. I lost all respect for Apple's arguments that they should be allowed to gatekeep after they colluded with Google and Twitter in blocking the Parlor app right as it started to take off.
- matwood 2y ago
  > eco systems employ lock-in and network-effects to keep customers Much of the lock-in often comes from deep eco system integration which is also good for the user in many cases.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  So you bought an iPhone 20 years ago as your introduction to smart phones and whenever you visit the topic of switching you learn that your apps don't go with you, it won't work with your apple devices, and it's a pain in the ass so you abandon the idea altogether. Such choice!
AmericanChopper 2y ago
The “everybody other than me is too stupid to make decisions for themselves” argument is not very compelling, especially when you have to curate the hypothetical model of stupidity to fit nicely with your stance on the topic.
- aniviacat 2y ago
  The vast majority of people don't use ad blockers. I think the argument of "people usually make zero consideration about what software choice is best for them" very much holds.
  - AmericanChopper 2y ago
    Your typical user understands perfectly well that iPhones don’t support 3rd party distributed software. This has been a well publicised fact ever since the iPhone was first released. When it was first launched one of the most well publicised talking points about it was that it didn’t support flash. Trying to claim that this isn’t well known is borderline gaslighting. This claim you’re making here though is far more insidious. Who are you to decide what software choices are best for other people? I doubt most people care about ad blocking at all. But you think a persons right to make their own software choices should be restricted just because you think this is important? Why should anybody have any regard for what you think?
    - aniviacat 2y ago
      I don't claim that people don't know of alternatives existing. I don't think the reason adblockers aren't more widely used is people not knowing about their existence. I also don't believe your implicit claim of people prefering watching ads over using an adblocker. I believe the vast majority of people would prefer a browser (or other software) that blocks ads over one that doesn't. So if people know about adblockers and prefer not watching ads, why don't they use adblockers? Because most people do not want to invest even a few minutes in finding the best option for them. They simply choose the default configuration of the software they have always used (e.g. Windows) or that they were introduced to by ads (e.g. Chrome). I do believe that most people are capable of making the best decision; I don't think most people are willing to make the best decision. People who aren't heavily into the topic will usually go with the default option. And that option is usually the worst. (This isn't limited to software. There are many non-software products where I will chose the "default" option, too. Simply because I don't care about figuring out what the best option is for me. I will simply use the default: If it works, it's good enough. But I recognize that by doing so I, too, am promoting markets that are not trying to compete on product quality, but simply their marketing/advertising and the attention they get.)

by isodev 2y ago

bruce511 2y ago

It's been close to 20 years since iPhone shipped. None of these restrictions are new. There are pros and cons to any consumer choice. I think users are well informed an making their choice explicitly. Yes, both eco systems employ lock-in and network-effects to keep customers. And yes that is an issue (separate from the app store issue.) It may interest you to know that outside the US (and some parts of Europe) Apple has a smaller network share and people avoid the green bubble effect by using alternate messengers (mostly WhatsApp). There are -choices- which you may or may not like. In the US folk have largely -chosen- to use iPhones despite Fortnite.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
isodev 2y ago
> None of these restrictions are new. What's new is that Apple/Google now effectively control our lives. Their presence is everywhere. And so yes, in this case it really matters what happens in every ecosystem. These corporations are effectively dictating policy for how my life is supposed to work, although nobody elected them, there is no oversight. I live in Europe, so both Apple and Google are really an ocean away in terms of mindset and values.
- jonnybgood 2y ago
  How are they controlling your life? How are they dictating how your life is suppose to work?
  - isodev 2y ago
    By controlling which apps I can install and how I can pay for things.
    - zahllos 2y ago
      I have a possible workaround for the "how can I pay for things" part: don't use Goopple wallet, carry a card (and maybe some cash)? Tap to pay is your phone emulating an iso14443 smart card, which is what a contactless bank card is. Carrying a card is of course another thing to carry, but on the plus side they don't need charging every 24h and they won't be old tech next year when the iPhoxel n+1 incrementally better edition is released.
      - heavyset_go 2y ago
        All apps on the App Store force you to use Apple's payment methods, and all apps on the Play Store force you to use Google's.
    - EricE 2y ago
      Yup. I lost all respect for Apple's arguments that they should be allowed to gatekeep after they colluded with Google and Twitter in blocking the Parlor app right as it started to take off.
matwood 2y ago
> eco systems employ lock-in and network-effects to keep customers Much of the lock-in often comes from deep eco system integration which is also good for the user in many cases.
2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
So you bought an iPhone 20 years ago as your introduction to smart phones and whenever you visit the topic of switching you learn that your apps don't go with you, it won't work with your apple devices, and it's a pain in the ass so you abandon the idea altogether. Such choice!

AmericanChopper 2y ago

The “everybody other than me is too stupid to make decisions for themselves” argument is not very compelling, especially when you have to curate the hypothetical model of stupidity to fit nicely with your stance on the topic.

aniviacat 2y ago
The vast majority of people don't use ad blockers. I think the argument of "people usually make zero consideration about what software choice is best for them" very much holds.
- AmericanChopper 2y ago
  Your typical user understands perfectly well that iPhones don’t support 3rd party distributed software. This has been a well publicised fact ever since the iPhone was first released. When it was first launched one of the most well publicised talking points about it was that it didn’t support flash. Trying to claim that this isn’t well known is borderline gaslighting. This claim you’re making here though is far more insidious. Who are you to decide what software choices are best for other people? I doubt most people care about ad blocking at all. But you think a persons right to make their own software choices should be restricted just because you think this is important? Why should anybody have any regard for what you think?
  - aniviacat 2y ago
    I don't claim that people don't know of alternatives existing. I don't think the reason adblockers aren't more widely used is people not knowing about their existence. I also don't believe your implicit claim of people prefering watching ads over using an adblocker. I believe the vast majority of people would prefer a browser (or other software) that blocks ads over one that doesn't. So if people know about adblockers and prefer not watching ads, why don't they use adblockers? Because most people do not want to invest even a few minutes in finding the best option for them. They simply choose the default configuration of the software they have always used (e.g. Windows) or that they were introduced to by ads (e.g. Chrome). I do believe that most people are capable of making the best decision; I don't think most people are willing to make the best decision. People who aren't heavily into the topic will usually go with the default option. And that option is usually the worst. (This isn't limited to software. There are many non-software products where I will chose the "default" option, too. Simply because I don't care about figuring out what the best option is for me. I will simply use the default: If it works, it's good enough. But I recognize that by doing so I, too, am promoting markets that are not trying to compete on product quality, but simply their marketing/advertising and the attention they get.)