5 ms·
Yet ESDF is objectively better because it frees up Q, A, Z, and W to easily be used for other keybinds. The number of people I've seen stretch their pinky down
by jameskilton 2y ago
Yet ESDF is objectively better because it frees up Q, A, Z, and W to easily be used for other keybinds. The number of people I've seen stretch their pinky down to Left-CTRL for crouch boggles my mind. With ESDF, crouch is A!
Yes, this is a very tiny hill on which to die on, but it's my hill!
- glitchc 2y agoAnd what a hill at that!
- nvy 2y agoThe Tribes series showed me the based way of ESDF enlightenment. WASD is for peasants.
- imp0cat 2y agoSo what exactly do you need the QAZW for? With WASD you still have TAB, CAPS, tilde and SHIFT available. Also, crouch is Q, jump is E.
- orangea 2y agoI suppose with ESDF you have the two keys Q and W where otherwise only tab would be.
- lupusreal 2y agoCrouching and jumping are usually performed in combination with movement. How do you press Q or E while also using WASD freely?
- nvy 2y agoFor run'n'gun games like Quake, nothing really but for games with more controls like ArmA or Tribes those extra buttons come in handy. Shield, nade, lean left/right, use item, etc.
- anonCoffee 2y agoQ and E are lean left, lean right!
- Talanes 2y agoI have large hands. Left control is the natural resting place of my pinky, while reaching A from an ESDF rest requires I adjust my whole hand to scrunch my fingers closer.
- gavmor 2y agoFirst shooter I played at home was Esoteria, with ESDF.
- pimlottc 2y agoESDF is also more natural to touch-typers as it’s basically the same as the left hand “home position” of ASDF. And it’s easy to locate without looking, since the F key usually has a raised marker on most keyboards.
- throw7 2y agoI touch type, but I've always felt WASD more "natural" or comfortable for gaming. I've tried ESDF but can't get used to it... For me I think it really is that the edge of the keyboard helps anchor and give a solid reference for where the hand is and those keys at the edge will be easily hittable by everyone. Also, a lot of times my pinky awkwardly rests inbetween the shift & z.
- orangea 2y agoOn the other hand, the F key has a bump on it on every keyboard I've recently come into contact with, which could provide an anchor.
- nailer 2y agoAgreed, but everyone I’ve ever discussed this matter with has called it FEDS vs WADS
- foresto 2y ago> Yet ESDF is objectively better Subjectively better. If I were to switch to ESDF, I would have only one key to the right of my index finger in each row, as opposed to two. (I have a split keyboard.) You could argue that I would have two keys to the left of my pinky finger, but I find that reach more difficult. I would also have a harder time orienting my fingers without looking, because I would no longer have the differently-shaped keys under my pinky to let me know I was in the right place. (The indentation that indicates home position on my F key is subtle, and easy to miss when I'm focused on the action in a game.)
- admax88qqq 2y agoObjectively better on a standard non split keyboard then. Many games assume non split keyboard for default key bindings
- bigstrat2003 2y agoNo, still subjectively better. There's no such thing as objectively better when it comes to control schemes. It's all personal preference.
- foresto 2y agoWhat is a "standard" non-split keyboard? What do a game developer's assumptions have to do with objectivity? Also, you have conveniently ignored my last paragraph. The better mapping is objectively subjective. ;)
- nailer 2y agoIt is a keyboard that is not split.
- unshavedyak 2y agoFunny, haven't seen esdf mention in ages. I used to use ESDF exclusively. I eventually gave it up though just due to needing to remap it in ever damn game. Plus some wouldn't let me remap, which was even more annoying.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y agoIt is incredible the number of AAA releases which have an abysmal rebinding experience. Like they gave the job to the intern and nobody attempted to try it once. From tutorials which hard code the controls, special modes (driving, UI) which only respect the original, etc.
- maxglute 2y agoWonder if there's a program that toggles remaps wasd to esdf or whatever template.
- justin66 2y ago> objectively better There actually was a time when computer scientists at Atari studied user interface stuff with game performance in mind. All that ended years before WASD, but it’s worth pointing out that WASD came about as part of a competitive process. It’s not like anyone’s being forced to use something that doesn’t work for them (except on consoles). > stretch their pinky down to Left-CTRL for crouch boggles my mind. With ESDF, crouch is A! Because those are the only two conceivable choices…
- MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago> part of a competitive process Ehhh, sort of. I think people copied it from Thresh (a famous Quake player). It was better than the default, and "good enough" for competition. So a lot of people simply copied it and never thought about it again, especially after games started making it the default.
- justin66 2y agoI don't believe that competitive players are unwilling to experiment with this stuff to get an edge. On the hand, if someone polled today's competitive gamers to see what they're doing with their keybindings, the results were not published in this article. The author might ascribe more importance to the defaults than is really appropriate.
- rasz 2y ago>computer scientists at Atari studied user interface stuff with game performance in mind 2600 and 5200 controllers say otherwise.
- justin66 2y agoThe point was that there is a way to do "objective" study of Human-Computer Interaction, with game controllers as well as everything else, and then there are random opinions offered as "objective" for no reason other than people not caring about what "objective" means. But you're right about those controllers being somewhat shit. In fairness to the amazing Atari research labs that were used as part of a perhaps poor comparison, they had nothing to do with the design of those controllers and weren't around long enough to really affect much on the hardware side before their iteration of Atari died. For a couple of years Atari had some amazing researchers, but they would have benefitted from some amazing (or merely competent) senior management as well.
- orangea 2y agoYou could also just find a way to rebind caps lock, which would accomplish more or less the same thing.
- aquova 2y agoThis is exactly what I've done -- Caps Lock is another control. I find I don't use it much for typical keybinds, but very heavily use it in games.
- grayrest 2y agoAs an EDSF gamer (blame Tribes) I agree but I've run into issues with (IIRC) E, Shift, and Space on keyboards that aren't n-key rollover but it's been over a decade since I last owned one. So I think that's the reason for WASD. FWIW, A is dodge for me and V is crouch.
- pdpi 2y agoESDF also has the cute advantage that it has your hand resting in home row position.
- corysama 2y agoAn issue with EDSF that WASD dodged was that some keyboards had groupings that could only register a limited number of key-downs simultaneously. I believe EDSF was in one group. But, WASD spanned two. So, on those keyboards you could get ignored inputs specifically when things were getting frantic. I've never experienced that myself. Instead, I've been EDSF fo' lyfe because I had so many keybinds in HL1 multiplayer they surrounded those keys on all sides.
- wileydragonfly 2y agoInput ghosting. Happens when they don’t use a 1 to 1 switch matrix. Probably some truth to what you’re saying, I could see the column/row inputs being different.
- forrestthewoods 2y agoDisagree. If I put my pinky on A for ESDF then I have to rotate my wrist enough such that pressing E is uncomfortable. The natural resting place for my pinky with WASD is on shift, not tab. CTRL is trivial to reach. Tab is more awkward.
- Terr_ 2y ago> Yet ESDF is objectively better [...] crouch is A! I think you've forgotten the hardware limitations (rollover/ghosting) that usually made it objectively worse instead, where "A" often wouldn't behave the same as ctrl or shift when multiple keys are being held down. Being able to strafe while holding crouch is a handicap.
- II2II 2y agoShift is can be another interesting key to hit. Many non-US keyboards have an extra key between shift and z (or whatever letter takes to place of z in a particular region. Not only are you reaching further to hit the shift key, but the size of the target is not much larger than a normal key. In countries like Canada, life is even more fun. Most keyboards are of the US variety, yet many laptops come with the multi-lingual variant. Better get used to two keyboard layouts if you're using WASD with shift/control.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y agoClearly hasn't learned to use the palm for left ctrl! /s I do use the palm though, it is weird, lol
- silon42 2y agome too, just works out well with WASD. It's like an extra finger.
- xen0 2y agoAnd here I am using QWES. I find it much more ergonomic to have the three fingers on the same row. And L Ctrl is not a stretch at all. Although for some reason I usually bind L Alt to crouch...
- fragmede 2y agoDamn, am I the only one that used M1 to go forwards?
- tmtvl 2y agoI've been using ESDF (well, .oeu now that I'm using the Dvorak layout, but details) since I was using Azerty keyboards. A (Q on Azerty) for jump, C (J on Dvorak) for crouch, Z (; on Dvorak) for walk, and I've got enough reach for plenty of other keys. Got started doing that when I played Bungie's Oni, which required editing an INI file to rebind keys.
- animal531 2y agoMy hill is slightly smaller in that I replace D with C, this way I have my thumb on C and I never have to switch keys. I instead use D as the use key in all games, X for reload, V for crouch etc.
- esdf 2y agoI've got to agree with you on this