5 ms·

"Junk Fees" are a direct result of consumers demanding lower base fares. Inflation-adjusted, it has _never_ been cheaper to just get on a plane and fly across

"Junk Fees" are a direct result of consumers demanding lower base fares. Inflation-adjusted, it has _never_ been cheaper to just get on a plane and fly across the country. Once you start legislating away the ability for consumers to pick and choose what they want to pay for, some of that cost will just be rolled back into the base fare, making all customers pay more. As usual, good intentions lead to bad policy.

dtech 2y ago
I fail to see how this is a bad thing at all
- alistairSH 2y ago
  For everybody who doesn't travel with kids, who will now see a small increase in base fare, this is a financial negative. But, I'm with you - "humanizing" airline travel a bit is probably a net good. These days, basically nobody enjoys flying for myriad reasons (almost all of which are vaguely caused by a "race to the bottom")
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    Clearly solution here is to increase price of tickets for underage children. Which is the fairest way for everyone.
    - freetanga 2y ago
      Considering the main cost is fuel, why not weight passengers at take-off and charge a supplement accordingly ? Cost-wise, kids should be 50% off.
      - Scoundreller 2y ago
        Should build some rows with mini seats and tiny legroom for the kids. Make it more like a resort where you hand off the kids to the on-site daycare and enjoy a carefree day. Need a staffer, but the extra seating capacity should cover it. We have on-board showers, individual cabins, sit down bars, but where’s the onsite daycare?
        frumper 2y ago
        And adults that want to save money can squeeze into the tiny seats. Once that catches on we can have a new junk fee for an oversized tiny seat, it can be even the new base fare even. /s
  - ninth_ant 2y ago
    The cost of this is negligible if it exists at all. Charging for access to the already-existing seat selection feature when booking is a classic tactic of price discrimination to squeeze more money from people who can afford it. So this could impact profits, but not costs.
    - alistairSH 2y ago
      Yes, we agree.
ToucanLoucan 2y ago
They made almost a trillion dollars as an industry last year, with 30 billion right off the top in pure profit, and mind you that's a scant few years after the lot of the American one's at least were financially insolvent and crying to Congress for aid when COVID grounded their fleets for WEEK. I don't think the airlines have a problem justifying their ticket prices, I think they have a greedy bastard executive class problem that's draining them of all their money.
- pbhjpbhj 2y ago
  >I think they have a greedy bastard executive class problem // I mean, that's the entire point of Western Capitalism, to further enrich the wealthy. The wealthy own the political classes, effectively. Unless you can make money off it then it's not happening.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Do you realize that is a razor thin margin of 3%? No wonder airlines are always at risk of bankruptcy
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    Maybe they should stop doing so many stock buybacks then.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Those come out of the profits
mlyle 2y ago
Junk fees obscuring true pricing reduce the efficiency of a market. Efficient markets require transparent pricing and surprise fees disclosed later in booking are the opposite of this. So, yes— please make pricing simple enough that you can disclose everything up front, even if that means many “extras” are rolled into the base fare.
- filleokus 2y ago
  ... or some standardised why to compare the total cost across carriers on a meta search engine (kinda what Google Flights allows you to do with luggage).
  - mlyle 2y ago
    Yes. But even so, fees like this can also be a backdoor way to do what would otherwise unlawful conduct (discriminating against children or other groups).
jmull 2y ago
...well, except this is good policy. If you reflect on what value procreation may have to society, and the role parenting plays in realizing that value, and how parents accomplish this, you may come to realize that its good when parents are responsible for their young children. That means they need to be near in fraught situations, like air travel. Meanwhile, I think we can conclude the cost of this rule is low. E.g., several competitive airlines are already doing this. And rationally, we can suppose the proportion of bookings affected by this is low, so this is mainly a matter of updating the booking software. High-value, low cost.. that's good policy.

dtech 2y ago

I fail to see how this is a bad thing at all

alistairSH 2y ago
For everybody who doesn't travel with kids, who will now see a small increase in base fare, this is a financial negative. But, I'm with you - "humanizing" airline travel a bit is probably a net good. These days, basically nobody enjoys flying for myriad reasons (almost all of which are vaguely caused by a "race to the bottom")
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Clearly solution here is to increase price of tickets for underage children. Which is the fairest way for everyone.
  - freetanga 2y ago
    Considering the main cost is fuel, why not weight passengers at take-off and charge a supplement accordingly ? Cost-wise, kids should be 50% off.
    - Scoundreller 2y ago
      Should build some rows with mini seats and tiny legroom for the kids. Make it more like a resort where you hand off the kids to the on-site daycare and enjoy a carefree day. Need a staffer, but the extra seating capacity should cover it. We have on-board showers, individual cabins, sit down bars, but where’s the onsite daycare?
      - frumper 2y ago
        And adults that want to save money can squeeze into the tiny seats. Once that catches on we can have a new junk fee for an oversized tiny seat, it can be even the new base fare even. /s
- ninth_ant 2y ago
  The cost of this is negligible if it exists at all. Charging for access to the already-existing seat selection feature when booking is a classic tactic of price discrimination to squeeze more money from people who can afford it. So this could impact profits, but not costs.
  - alistairSH 2y ago
    Yes, we agree.

ToucanLoucan 2y ago

They made almost a trillion dollars as an industry last year, with 30 billion right off the top in pure profit, and mind you that's a scant few years after the lot of the American one's at least were financially insolvent and crying to Congress for aid when COVID grounded their fleets for WEEK. I don't think the airlines have a problem justifying their ticket prices, I think they have a greedy bastard executive class problem that's draining them of all their money.

pbhjpbhj 2y ago
>I think they have a greedy bastard executive class problem // I mean, that's the entire point of Western Capitalism, to further enrich the wealthy. The wealthy own the political classes, effectively. Unless you can make money off it then it's not happening.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
Do you realize that is a razor thin margin of 3%? No wonder airlines are always at risk of bankruptcy
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  Maybe they should stop doing so many stock buybacks then.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Those come out of the profits

mlyle 2y ago

Junk fees obscuring true pricing reduce the efficiency of a market. Efficient markets require transparent pricing and surprise fees disclosed later in booking are the opposite of this. So, yes— please make pricing simple enough that you can disclose everything up front, even if that means many “extras” are rolled into the base fare.

filleokus 2y ago
... or some standardised why to compare the total cost across carriers on a meta search engine (kinda what Google Flights allows you to do with luggage).
- mlyle 2y ago
  Yes. But even so, fees like this can also be a backdoor way to do what would otherwise unlawful conduct (discriminating against children or other groups).

jmull 2y ago

...well, except this is good policy. If you reflect on what value procreation may have to society, and the role parenting plays in realizing that value, and how parents accomplish this, you may come to realize that its good when parents are responsible for their young children. That means they need to be near in fraught situations, like air travel. Meanwhile, I think we can conclude the cost of this rule is low. E.g., several competitive airlines are already doing this. And rationally, we can suppose the proportion of bookings affected by this is low, so this is mainly a matter of updating the booking software. High-value, low cost.. that's good policy.