8 ms·
Proposed rule would ban airlines from charging parents to sit with children
- hdlothia 2y ago[flagged]
- thanatos519 2y agoNext let's encourage them to move those children around by burning kerosene in the atmosphere! WCGW?
- mplewis 2y agoSure. Let’s start with universal free childcare and healthcare.
- blitzar 2y ago[flagged]
- resource_waste 2y agoTax paid-Childcare is the biggest win win win. Your laborers are working which is good for GDP. They are taxed. The laborers are earning experience which produces some sort of multiplier of efficiency. For the right: More workers are good for economies For the left: More workers leaving the home mean higher social/political awareness and education. More children getting preschool/pre-k education. For the children: I cannot tell you how many times I've heard things like, "My kid doesnt talk" or some other delay, only to find out they have been at home spending all day with a parent for years. I've further seen this as my 3rd child pretends to be the same age as my 2nd child, speech and physical abilities. The worst thing is having a person stay at home for 5 years, watching a single child.
- dagw 2y agoWhile I'm certainly pro free childcare, it is worth noting that even countries with both free child care and generous paternity leave, like Sweden, still have very low birth rates. So while these things are probably good in themselves, they are no guarantee that they'll significantly improve brith rates.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoI agree that in general, there can be economic benefits to specialization of labor. However, I also think there is deep hesitancy and real risks when domestic work to a government entitlement. I would also think that if the left makes inducing "higher social/political awareness" a primary goal, the proposal would be dead on arrival.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- blitzar 2y ago[flagged]
- swader999 2y agoIt's a Ponzi scheme, all systems need it.
- jjk166 2y agoShy of paying living wages for jobs with decent work life balance and building sufficient housing, of course.
- resource_waste 2y agoOver and over this is repeated, but wages are not the reason for decline in birth rates IMO. Talk to your friends, they might verbally say 'money', but then you see them go on trips and buy food at restaurants. Its much easier socially to say 'money', than 'I don't like/want kids'. The only reason I have a ton of kids, is because I am planning on setting them up for political purposes as I play Dynasty. Its selfish, and I hope to make lots of money and power from them. No one else has this mentality. The better question is: "Why does someone want kids?" Given most people are hedonists(assumed). Would a hedonist want kids? Maybe. They are cute which is dopamine inducing. But less fancy food and lots of crying pains.
- baseballdork 2y ago> Talk to your friends, they might verbally say 'money', but then you see them go on trips and buy food at restaurants. Its much easier socially to say 'money', than 'I don't like/want kids'. Going on trips and eating out are luxuries some can afford because they don't have children...
- jjk166 2y agoThere was a time, not that long ago, when going on trips and eating at restaurants was not mutually exclusive with having kids.
- bluGill 2y agoDepends on the restaurant. I'm apparently the only white family that will bring my kids to an Indian restaurant in this city. Once in a while I'll see kids with their India family, but all the other customers are adults who seem to think Indian restaurants are not for kids. (the staff seems to agree that they are serving family friendly food - it is what they ate growing up)
- Mathnerd314 2y agoWell, there is this quote, "Dr Peng said throwing money at people was not enough to convince them to have children." https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/asia-spending-millions-to-reverse-declining-fertility-rates/103779994 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/asia-spending-million... It is more of a culture thing. At least in the US, I think children are perceived as a nuisance right now, and adding special rules for them for airlines doesn't really change that. If anything it makes it worse. Some campaign like "don't get a dog, get a child" might have more appeal. E.g. one could point out how you can't bring a dog on a plane except in a carrier but a child gets their own seat.
- theGnuMe 2y agoThe government needs to reform its support systems if it wants more children.
- Mathnerd314 2y agoAh yeah, I didn't mention the foster care system. If you think adopting a pet is hard, try adopting a child...
- bluGill 2y agoAdopting a child is generally much harder than having your own. "Normal" kids rarely end up in foster or adoption situations. You see abused kids - you need a degree in psychology to help them recover from their background, or you see kids defects (genetic, mental, or otherwise) who need special care that is much harder than normal to give - while this could happen to you by random change, odds are it won't. Once in a while a "normal" kid has their family die (not just parents, extended family as well) and end up in the system, but this is rare. I'm glad for those parents who do take on foster kids, but it is not easy. Adopting overseas is not a good answer - there is a lot of fraud (most countries will not even allow it anymore - it is too easy to kidnap a baby and by the time the rightful parents can get to authorities the baby is in a different country and impossible to trace down). There is still some opportunity, but make sure you are not unwittingly kidnapping a child.
- sbergot 2y agoDo we? Is the global population about to collapse? Isn't an increase of global population going to cause more issues?
- bluGill 2y agoDefine collapse. The world population is on track to start declining starting in the next few decades. However with 8-9 billion humans how large a loss would you require before you call it a collapse is a debatable question. Increase in global population will continue for a few decades, but there are more old people than young people and it seems unlikely that we will get to a phase where births are high enough to counteract coming the death by old age in the near future.
- sbergot 2y agoI believe this is a good thing even if it will cause many issues. Humanity will have to live on earth for a long time and infinite growth is not sustainable. So at some point the population has to fluctuate. We will have to accept this reality.
- pintxo 2y agoMay I ask why we should do that?
- ben_w 2y agoIf the status quo continues, the population pyramid inverts and you get too many pensioners trying to cash in retirement investments whose value is backed up by too few people still in work. How much of a problem this is depends how close your economy is to replacement level, the closer the better. And I say "economy" rather than "country" because if (for the sake of argument) 100% of your investments and suppliers* are in the Bay Area then that's what you need to care about even if (like me) you're not American. * I'm still oversimplifying, but take the gist
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- elmerfud 2y agoThis seems like a dumb rule that's just going to increase airfares for everyone else as companies try to comply with this. Airlines are already required by law to give a refund within 24 hours. If you booked a ticket that doesn't have a signed seating that's the fair class you chose and you get what you get. If you book a ticket with a signed seating and you don't see the seats that you want you have 24 hours to cancel. Otherwise just deal with it.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y agoIt’s dumb because costs will be incurred by more than those that directly benefit from it? I’ve got bad news for you about how basically every business under the sun works.
- jprete 2y ago"Just deal with it" is usually not a good option for children. Some children are very independent, but in 2024 I think most are not.
- thegrim33 2y agoWell the solution in that case is to .. book adjoining seats. If you're the last person to book a flight and there's no adjoining seats, then choose a different flight. The flight couldn't have been that important to you if you're one of the last people reserving, you should be able to just book a different flight where you can reserve the appropriate seats.
- spencerflem 2y agoIdk if you've flown recently, but you don't get to pick seats anymore without paying a fairly substantial fee.
- bunderbunder 2y agoThe article quotes $200 for a family of four.
- Pet_Ant 2y agoHopefully this would get extended to all vulnerable persons such as the caretakers of special needs adults. Like the sibling of a severally autistic adult.
- bigstrat2003 2y agoThis should be extended to literally everyone. It is utterly ridiculous that airlines are allowed to charge fees for something like choosing a seat, which costs them nothing and is pure greed to charge for.
- Pet_Ant 2y agoWell, if it allows them to offer cheaper seats to people that don't care because now they can accommodate a party of six adults travelling for vacation together then I'm for it. They care to sit together, they can pay more, I can pay less.
- bunderbunder 2y agoWe don't pay extra to sit with our kids, but the trick does require a little bit of chutzpah. Nobody wants to get stuck sitting next to someone else's unattended kid on a flight. And no flight attendant wants unattended kids on their plane, either. So all you have to do is, when you get on the plane tell the flight attendant stationed by the plane's door that you weren't seated next to your kids, and what seats everyone is sitting in. Then proceed to your assigned seats. They will gladly sort things out for you, so you should only have to wait a few minutes for someone to come along and tell you your new seat assignments.
- jjulius 2y agoI appreciate that you acknowledge the inconvenience to others by using the word chutzpah. Your method slows down, and complicates, the boarding process for everyone else on the plane. Everyone's different, but with my kids, I'd much rather just pay for the convenience of being able to quickly get on the plane and get seated without making folk around me frustrated.
- bombcar 2y agoEvery airline I’ve ever flown boards families with children right after elderly and wheelchairs. Just take that opportunity. That’s why they’re asking!
- jjulius 2y agoThat's there for people who need to deal with getting strollers collapsed and ready to be stored with the luggage, and kids safely in their seats. OP's method extends into the normal boarding process, because you have to wait for other passengers to get on and be willing to move their seats.
- bunderbunder 2y agoIt also applies to small children, in my experience. But if you're flying with a toddler it's a lot easier to convince the gate agent to help you sort it out before boarding begins.
- richwater 2y ago"Junk Fees" are a direct result of consumers demanding lower base fares. Inflation-adjusted, it has _never_ been cheaper to just get on a plane and fly across the country. Once you start legislating away the ability for consumers to pick and choose what they want to pay for, some of that cost will just be rolled back into the base fare, making all customers pay more. As usual, good intentions lead to bad policy.
- dtech 2y agoI fail to see how this is a bad thing at all
- alistairSH 2y agoFor everybody who doesn't travel with kids, who will now see a small increase in base fare, this is a financial negative. But, I'm with you - "humanizing" airline travel a bit is probably a net good. These days, basically nobody enjoys flying for myriad reasons (almost all of which are vaguely caused by a "race to the bottom")
- Ekaros 2y agoClearly solution here is to increase price of tickets for underage children. Which is the fairest way for everyone.
- freetanga 2y agoConsidering the main cost is fuel, why not weight passengers at take-off and charge a supplement accordingly ? Cost-wise, kids should be 50% off.
- Scoundreller 2y agoShould build some rows with mini seats and tiny legroom for the kids. Make it more like a resort where you hand off the kids to the on-site daycare and enjoy a carefree day. Need a staffer, but the extra seating capacity should cover it. We have on-board showers, individual cabins, sit down bars, but where’s the onsite daycare?
- solfox 2y agoWhat a strange regression unassigned seats are anyway. We've had seat map selection technology for at least a couple of decades. Unassigned seating isn't saving anyone any money - it's just a strange tax on relationships.
- rlpb 2y agoIt allows those who care to be charged for caring, and thus subsidize the tickets of those who don't care, as well as to lower the headline price of tickets which helps with marketing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination (to be clear, there are many good reasons for caring, such as having children, any other personal circumstances, etc)
- bluGill 2y agoYou don't have to fly much to know some seats are better than others. I wish I could afford to fly first class everywhere. Aisle seats let you stick your legs out when nobody is coming by and so you get more legroom. Window seats let you see outside. Seats near the engines can be loud. I long ago decided I'd pay extra for economy plus (or whatever the airline calls it) the cost isn't much more and the legroom is nice. My wife doesn't care (she is short so doesn't need legroom)
- bigstrat2003 2y ago> It allows those who care to be charged for caring, and thus subsidize the tickets of those who don't care... I don't for one nanosecond believe that the people who don't care are getting cheaper tickets out of the deal. I'm sure the companies are only too happy to pocket the extra money.
- sameoldtune 2y agoI worked in the industry (albeit for only about 6 months…). I completely believe that people who don’t bring bags or choose seats are saving money. Hell, if you don’t care when you anrrive you can get the anirline to pay /you/ in the form of a voucher for a later flight. Even in the face of inflation the base-price of an airline ticket has remained relatively constant for half a decade. What has changed is that you get less and less convenience for your $ in coach. Most flights make most of their money on the 5 business travelers who pay 5-10x the minimum seat price the day before the plane leaves.
- hansvm 2y agoOh interesting. I was wondering about the trend over the last few years for every single seat selection, no matter how terrible, had an upcharge -- the airline planned to put me on one of them for +$0, so not having a +$0 option felt odd.
- hijinks 2y agoas a parent it would be fun to have my kid sit in the middle seat between two random people and let them deal with him on the flight while I relax far away
- jwsteigerwalt 2y agoThe overwhelming majority of US legislators have no concept of what it means to run a business that serves customers what they want. The market has already corrected this situation. Some carriers offer the service free of charge, some don’t. Parents are completely able to see the policy associated with a specific ticket before they purchase.
- metabagel 2y ago> Parents are completely able to see the policy associated with a specific ticket before they purchase. It's a process of discovery rather than being something that you know up front. You generally have to get pretty deep into the process of purchasing a ticket before you learn how much it will cost to pre-book your seats. If you don't like it, you have to start the process anew with another airline. And this is deliberate by the airlines. They want you to invest some time before they reveal the true, all-inclusive price, so you're less likely to look elsewhere.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jacks0n 2y agoIt's one thing for a government to give free incentives, but the government shouldn't be forcing company pricing unless it's to encourage a free market. So basically everyone's seat price will go up now because they have to make others free.
- smokey_the_bear 2y agoI wouldn't mind paying to sit next to my kids so much if the middle seats were free to select, so I just had to pay for the aisle or window. It seems like blatant greed, and also encourages the behavior of selecting the aisle/window and planning to swap if someone sits in the middle, which complicates boarding and possibly stops other families from sitting together. Yesterday, I flew with my 11 year old on Southwest. Our first flight was three hours late, we missed our connection and were in the last boarding group on the new flight, which took off at 10:30 pm. He's sat alone before and it's fine, but our bags weren't organized in way to make that easy, and on the late flight they turn off all the lights and it just seems a little strange to sit between strangers in the dark for hours. He was also changing timezones and landed at what felt like 3 am to him. It just seemed like an unnecessary stressor after a long day of travel for a relatively young person.
- SJetKaran 2y ago+1, even for someone like me who doesn't have kids, this seems like a good policy move
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y agoI mean, this makes a lot of sense, a parent needs to be sitting near a child if you don't want complaints from all the people in the airplane (obviously this is based on age)