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Go to somewhere like Japan where you have choices of 20 different payment vendors. Or even here in the states and sometimes you can pay via PayPal or Venmo or

Go to somewhere like Japan where you have choices of 20 different payment vendors. Or even here in the states and sometimes you can pay via PayPal or Venmo or QR code. But at the end of the day, I can just tap my Visa card (or lately just Apple Pay) in way more places than anywhere else, from storefronts to vending machines, in Italy or Japan or Wisconsin, and it Just Works. Building a network that is accepted anywhere in the world (if they want it, and short of sanctions) is a combination of engineering, marketing and management.

fancytaco 2y ago
And you can always use your cards online, except for things Visa and Mastercard don't like! Yay!
- p51-remorse 2y ago
  Remember, this isn’t really a moral judgement. It’s a “we get way too many chargebacks on these categories to make it worth it” judgement. Maybe we could see a thing where to purchase something in those categories, you have to call them and verify your identity, and that you’re buying this thing, and that you aren’t allowed to submit a chargeback. But probably the volume isn’t worth it.
  - bluefirebrand 2y ago
    > Remember, this isn’t really a moral judgement. It’s a “we get way too many chargebacks on these categories to make it worth it” judgement I think it can be both In fact, I think if it weren't for the moral aspect, they wouldn't really get away with it. Imagine if they suddenly got a large problem of charge backs for groceries, gas or prescriptions. They might want to stop accepting payments for those things but the backlash would be astronomical against them I've also never actually seen any concrete numbers about how many more chargebacks they get for adult content versus other categories. Is it possible they really don't get that many more chargebacks, but since it's a category they feel comfortable going after they decide not to accept those payments anymore?
    - nullfield 2y ago
      They probably won’t give us the concrete numbers. They definitely don’t want to get sued if they facilitate what turns out to be not just distasteful to them but potentially illegal-see the PornHub lockout by all the CC companies after it was discovered that not all the things they hosted were legal/consenting/etc. That said, “the optimal amount of fraud is non-zero”: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fraud/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fra...
aunty_helen 2y ago
This is a big one. Actually deploying a network worldwide and it just working is a massive feat. I go to some backwards place in South America and if they’re not cash only they’ll take visa. If they are cash only I’ll be able to get cash from the nearest ATM. I really dislike their duopoly and the fact they’re a tool for American politics but… it’s extremely convenient and well executed. Contrast this with my bank, not using a third party provider, it would cost 30$ and take 3-5 business days to get money to a bank pickup location in a city. Contrast this global coverage with the global coverage of my mobile provider that wants to charge me 6.50$/mb for data.

fancytaco 2y ago

And you can always use your cards online, except for things Visa and Mastercard don't like! Yay!

p51-remorse 2y ago
Remember, this isn’t really a moral judgement. It’s a “we get way too many chargebacks on these categories to make it worth it” judgement. Maybe we could see a thing where to purchase something in those categories, you have to call them and verify your identity, and that you’re buying this thing, and that you aren’t allowed to submit a chargeback. But probably the volume isn’t worth it.
- bluefirebrand 2y ago
  > Remember, this isn’t really a moral judgement. It’s a “we get way too many chargebacks on these categories to make it worth it” judgement I think it can be both In fact, I think if it weren't for the moral aspect, they wouldn't really get away with it. Imagine if they suddenly got a large problem of charge backs for groceries, gas or prescriptions. They might want to stop accepting payments for those things but the backlash would be astronomical against them I've also never actually seen any concrete numbers about how many more chargebacks they get for adult content versus other categories. Is it possible they really don't get that many more chargebacks, but since it's a category they feel comfortable going after they decide not to accept those payments anymore?
  - nullfield 2y ago
    They probably won’t give us the concrete numbers. They definitely don’t want to get sued if they facilitate what turns out to be not just distasteful to them but potentially illegal-see the PornHub lockout by all the CC companies after it was discovered that not all the things they hosted were legal/consenting/etc. That said, “the optimal amount of fraud is non-zero”: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fraud/ https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fra...

aunty_helen 2y ago

This is a big one. Actually deploying a network worldwide and it just working is a massive feat. I go to some backwards place in South America and if they’re not cash only they’ll take visa. If they are cash only I’ll be able to get cash from the nearest ATM. I really dislike their duopoly and the fact they’re a tool for American politics but… it’s extremely convenient and well executed. Contrast this with my bank, not using a third party provider, it would cost 30$ and take 3-5 business days to get money to a bank pickup location in a city. Contrast this global coverage with the global coverage of my mobile provider that wants to charge me 6.50$/mb for data.