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Ethanol is metabolized to acetaldehyde. Aldehydes form crosslinks between proteins and DNA (and DNA with itself). Inactivation of the aldehyde-metabolizing

Ethanol is metabolized to acetaldehyde. Aldehydes form crosslinks between proteins and DNA (and DNA with itself). Inactivation of the aldehyde-metabolizing ALDH2 enzyme (which happens in 50% of East Asians) increases risk for various disorders including cancer and late-onset Alzheimer's. Cancers linked to alcohol use: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/diet-physical-activity/alcohol-use-and-cancer.html https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/diet-physical-... The American Cancer Society recommends avoiding alcohol consumption at any level.

ImHereToVote 2y ago
Acetaldehyde is also be metabolized by the brain for energy. May be why some people get so addicted.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  I think it would be preferable to fuel your brain with something that isn't also a carcinogen.
  - ImHereToVote 2y ago
    You think?
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      I possibly use a bit too much understatement.
  - coldtea 2y ago
    Given that everything is a carcinogen if you read such studies, but most of it is nowhere important enough to worry about, I'm not sure...
    - pfdietz 2y ago
      It's estimated in Europe that 7% of all breast cancers are due to alcohol consumption. Not everything is a carcinogen at that level.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  That’s an interesting chemical. One stereotype I’ve heard is that people quit drinking and then become addicted to coffee. Coffee apparently can have acetaldehyde in it.
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    Roasted coffee has variable amounts of acetaldehyde, but typically in the tens of ppm. So, coffee will present orders of magnitude lower acetaldehyde exposure than drinking even dilute alcoholic beverages. I wonder more about soluble fiber carbohydrates leading to ethanol production in the gut.
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      Interesting. Well, I was not too invested in that theory, haha. It also could be the ritual of the whole thing. I quit drinking, and got really into coffee drinks. Creating potions—the anticipation, the combination of fluids with different densities and colors, the foam that is produced by espresso when the pressure is just right—it is all kind of satisfying.
kragen 2y ago
interesting! acetaldehyde is liebig's original gangster aldehyde, before even formaldehyde. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde also says, 'acetaldehyde occurs naturally in coffee, bread, and ripe fruit, and is produced by plants.' can you use acetaldehyde to crosslink proteins and polysaccharides to make thermosetting bioplastics? apparently you can use it to crosslink urea, just as you can with formaldehyde looks like the answer is yes, at least if the polysaccharide is chitosan: https://www.mdpi.com/2313-7673/7/1/10 https://www.mdpi.com/2313-7673/7/1/10 there isn't enough acetaldehyde in bread and fresh fruit or alcoholics' livers to be a practical source for this purpose, but one traditional acetaldehyde process was catalytic dehydrogenation of ethanol on a copper-based catalyst at 260°–290°, which seems like the kind of thing that john plant might feature on the next episode of primitive technology
IshKebab 2y ago
> at any level This is nonsense advice. Would you take the advice of someone who recommended never driving because any level of driving risks death? That's obviously stupid. Or it should be anyway though I suspect some pendants will try to argue it. If you're one of those people what about never going outside? The sun's deadly rays might give you cancer and there's no safe level of sunlight!! Risks are about trade-offs. If the American Cancer Society wants to be helpful and actually listened to they need to provide practical actionable advice, not this cop-out.
- jakupovic 2y ago
  Tell it how it is. No cigarettes either. But it's OK to go camping and live in a cloud of smoke for days. I wonder how many cigarettes a day equals being in a big campground with fires everywhere for 2 days is?
  - iancmceachern 2y ago
    An AQI of 250 plus is equivalent to 7 cigarettes a day: https://woods.stanford.edu/news/health-impacts-wildfire-smoke#:~:text=Communities%20exposed%20to%20wildfire%20smoke,were%20outside%20the%20whole%20time https://woods.stanford.edu/news/health-impacts-wildfire-smok....
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      It depends how much time you spend outside? I’m just thinking back to my days in Beijing when 250 PPI was not a bad day.
      - iancmceachern 2y ago
        The parent commenter was referring to camping, therefore all day.
    - mgarfias 2y ago
      What about an AQI of ~1500? Yeah, we lived through that here 4 years ago during the fires here in Oregon, while waiting to find out if we’d told to evac.

ImHereToVote 2y ago

Acetaldehyde is also be metabolized by the brain for energy. May be why some people get so addicted.

pfdietz 2y ago
I think it would be preferable to fuel your brain with something that isn't also a carcinogen.
- ImHereToVote 2y ago
  You think?
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    I possibly use a bit too much understatement.
- coldtea 2y ago
  Given that everything is a carcinogen if you read such studies, but most of it is nowhere important enough to worry about, I'm not sure...
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    It's estimated in Europe that 7% of all breast cancers are due to alcohol consumption. Not everything is a carcinogen at that level.
bee_rider 2y ago
That’s an interesting chemical. One stereotype I’ve heard is that people quit drinking and then become addicted to coffee. Coffee apparently can have acetaldehyde in it.
- pfdietz 2y ago
  Roasted coffee has variable amounts of acetaldehyde, but typically in the tens of ppm. So, coffee will present orders of magnitude lower acetaldehyde exposure than drinking even dilute alcoholic beverages. I wonder more about soluble fiber carbohydrates leading to ethanol production in the gut.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    Interesting. Well, I was not too invested in that theory, haha. It also could be the ritual of the whole thing. I quit drinking, and got really into coffee drinks. Creating potions—the anticipation, the combination of fluids with different densities and colors, the foam that is produced by espresso when the pressure is just right—it is all kind of satisfying.

kragen 2y ago

interesting! acetaldehyde is liebig's original gangster aldehyde, before even formaldehyde. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetaldehyde also says, 'acetaldehyde occurs naturally in coffee, bread, and ripe fruit, and is produced by plants.' can you use acetaldehyde to crosslink proteins and polysaccharides to make thermosetting bioplastics? apparently you can use it to crosslink urea, just as you can with formaldehyde looks like the answer is yes, at least if the polysaccharide is chitosan: https://www.mdpi.com/2313-7673/7/1/10 https://www.mdpi.com/2313-7673/7/1/10 there isn't enough acetaldehyde in bread and fresh fruit or alcoholics' livers to be a practical source for this purpose, but one traditional acetaldehyde process was catalytic dehydrogenation of ethanol on a copper-based catalyst at 260°–290°, which seems like the kind of thing that john plant might feature on the next episode of primitive technology

IshKebab 2y ago

> at any level This is nonsense advice. Would you take the advice of someone who recommended never driving because any level of driving risks death? That's obviously stupid. Or it should be anyway though I suspect some pendants will try to argue it. If you're one of those people what about never going outside? The sun's deadly rays might give you cancer and there's no safe level of sunlight!! Risks are about trade-offs. If the American Cancer Society wants to be helpful and actually listened to they need to provide practical actionable advice, not this cop-out.

jakupovic 2y ago
Tell it how it is. No cigarettes either. But it's OK to go camping and live in a cloud of smoke for days. I wonder how many cigarettes a day equals being in a big campground with fires everywhere for 2 days is?
- iancmceachern 2y ago
  An AQI of 250 plus is equivalent to 7 cigarettes a day: https://woods.stanford.edu/news/health-impacts-wildfire-smoke#:~:text=Communities%20exposed%20to%20wildfire%20smoke,were%20outside%20the%20whole%20time https://woods.stanford.edu/news/health-impacts-wildfire-smok....
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    It depends how much time you spend outside? I’m just thinking back to my days in Beijing when 250 PPI was not a bad day.
    - iancmceachern 2y ago
      The parent commenter was referring to camping, therefore all day.
  - mgarfias 2y ago
    What about an AQI of ~1500? Yeah, we lived through that here 4 years ago during the fires here in Oregon, while waiting to find out if we’d told to evac.