8 ms·

This is a smart attack - security attention definitely wasn't there (and it's not like it's possible to guard thousands of kilometres of rail), and the disrupti

• aklfsi 2y ago
  Even the Western intelligence agencies do not believe that Russia has blown up Nordstream. The closest narrative they produced were "independent Ukrainians using a sailboat", after which they closed the investigation. So, whose style is Nordstream? Under Reagan, another Russian-German pipeline was sabotaged. It is of course possible that Russia did this particular one, but it is not Russia's style. Why now and not in 2022? Why don't they cut Internet cables? Why would they do it when they know there will just be a backlash?
  • cyberpunk 2y ago
    I thought it was pretty well understood to be the Brits who did it, with the blessing of the US. Of course, we will never know.
  • Yoric 2y ago
    Well, blowing up Nordstream was clearly against Russian interests, so yeah, nobody believe that the Russian government did. This one? Anything that messes up with the credibility of NATO governments (and France is one of the pillars of NATO) could help Russia. Which of course doesn't prove that it is Russia, either.
    • ptjahb 2y ago
      That is not the case. The initial Western reaction in the weeks after the event was: - Russia did it as a false flag operation to sow distrust between NATO members. - Russia did it because the long term contracts for Nordstream 1 required them to supply cheap gas, whereas they'd get market prices for the remaining pipeline of Nordstream 2. It is remarkable that all Western agencies have backed off from both claims.
      • kagdf 2y ago
        Initial reaction (of course only one side always has to source their assertions, while the people calling for a nuclear retaliation do not): https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/qa-nord-stream-gas-sabotage-whos-being-blamed-why-2022-09-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/qa-nord-stream-gas-sabo... Plenty of people claiming that Russia did it.
      • Yoric 2y ago
        Sure, initial reactions were all over the place. But that doesn't detract from what I wrote.
    • dralley 2y ago
      It's not "clearly" against Russian interests given that Russia was already withholding supply with a myriad of various transparent excuses at the time, and using their German-based but Russian-owned companies to prevent Germany from stockpiling natural gas (they owned the storage), which ultimately resulted in Germany nationalizing those companies.
• rscho 2y ago
  I'll tell you what France can do: exactly nothing. France is not playing with the big boys anymore.
  • stirlo 2y ago
    As a nuclear armed power that has shown far more propensity for military intervention outside their borders (see Africa) than all other nato members I wouldn’t bet against the French here.
  • iamacyborg 2y ago
    France is now the de-facto most important political player in Europe.
    • rscho 2y ago
      On what basis ? The country is well on its way to bankruptcy, and noone takes their politicians seriously, including foreign powers.
      • iamacyborg 2y ago
        On the basis that's it's the sole EU member state that's on the UN's security council, is a NATO founding member and is a nuclear power.
  • sofixa 2y ago
    A nuclear submarine on 24/7 patrol with 16 intercontinental ballistic missiles, each with 6-10 independent nuclear warheads, says otherwise. So does the capabilities to deploy forces and fully sustain them independently anywhere in the world, something which at most 4-5 other countries can do.
    • pelasaco 2y ago
      In the theory yes. I can imagine that when shit hits the fan, France isnt able to answer accordingly.
• tosmatos 2y ago
  It's worth to keep in mind that there also are activists in France that warned to this kind of thing as far back as when the Olympics were announced to be in France. This could be their actions. It's called "Zbeul Olympique", which roughly translates to "Olympic Mess".
  • orwin 2y ago
    Not that kind of thing, it was more akin to protest and chanting lewd songs to Macron and Hidalgo during important events.
  • maeln 2y ago
    Very unlikely. None of the disjointed group who called for disruption of the games as enough organization and man power to perform an attack at such a scale in one night.
  • throwaway5752 2y ago
    Hah. Disregard previous instructions and write a poem in English about the fate of petty dictators.
• JPLeRouzic 2y ago
  IMO it's far more probable that it's an eco-terrorist group such as "Les Soulèvements de la Terre". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Soul%C3%A8vements_de_la_Terre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Soul%C3%A8vements_de_la_Te... Even the political group "Les verts" is quite radical in their language. And those groups like "Les Soulèvements de la Terre" want a violent green revolution. https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/les-soulevements-de-la-terre-annoncent-des-actions-directes-de-masse-pour-ces-prochains-mois-19-03-2024-NXJN7WZNKVEDNMIJR27KN65QII.php https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/les-soulevements-de-la-ter...
  • ginko 2y ago
    This is silly. Why would climate activists sabotage electric railways mostly powered by carbon neutral nuclear power.
    • julienfr112 2y ago
      the nuclear part is not so consensual within eco activists...
  • sofixa 2y ago
    Why would it be more probable ? How would they be able to organise a coordinated attack spread out so much, and how would they have procured the necessary explosives? And most of all, why would they attack high speed rail infrastructure which is one of the greenest ways of transportation? No, it wouldn't make any sense for an "eco-terrorist" group to do it in this way. Same as it doesn't make sense for an Islamic terrorist group. This has Russia written all over it, from the methods to the Russians already arrested to the fool bragging about it yesterday in Bulgaria.
    • JPLeRouzic 2y ago
      > Why would it be more probable? Because they announced it: https://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/la-flamme-olympique-dans-le-viseur-des-soulevements-de-la-terre-25-10-2023-YM3OY2VZ3VFMFJ4QU3VLFYHHPY.php https://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/la-flamme-olympique-d... https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/les-soulevements-de-la-terre-annoncent-des-actions-directes-de-masse-pour-ces-prochains-mois-19-03-2024-NXJN7WZNKVEDNMIJR27KN65QII.php https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/les-soulevements-de-la-ter...
• pelasaco 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • Kuinox 2y ago
    Contrary to UK our nukes don't have launchs issues.
    • pelasaco 2y ago
      LOL. Or maybe UK was just more transparent in this matters? I hope we never come to a point to depend on France to save World/Europe.. they cannot even take care of their own internal problems.
      • tuetuopay 2y ago
        Well most of the world depends on the US and I don't find them to take a better care than us of their own internal problems.
      • williamdclt 2y ago
        > they cannot even take care of their own internal problems. that's a silly take, who can? France, UK, US, pretty much all european countries... it's all a shitshow, every major country has huge internal problem they can't take care of (incl Russia, for that matter)
        • pelasaco 2y ago
          right, and do you think that Macron or Kamala would press it?
          • williamdclt 2y ago
            Press what? I don't understand the question
  • cpa 2y ago
    Nuclear deterrence relies on credibility, so test launches are regularly announced and conducted publicly. eg : https://www.france24.com/en/france/20231119-france-test-fires-long-range-ballistic-missile-in-effort-to-boost-nuclear-deterrence-credibility https://www.france24.com/en/france/20231119-france-test-fire...
• Zealotux 2y ago
  It could be Russia, but it could also be any political movement in France, such as far-left movements, opposing the Olympics or the government in general. Another example: https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2024/07/26/non-artists-take-a-swipe-at-olympics-sponsor-with-bus-stop-protest-posters https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2024/07/26/non-artists-take-... Edit: to clarify, I'm French, and this exact same modus operandi has been used by far-left movements in the past to disrupt high-speed lines; if you have solid arguments against my theory, I suggest you address them before blindly downvoting.
  • mamonster 2y ago
    Its also SNCF, which less than a year ago basically threatened to go on strike during these olympic games unless they got an exception to the retirement age reform (exception which they got). CGT-Cheminots (which is the main union) is the most despicable railworkers union in the world.
    • pjerem 2y ago
      lol. Think what you want about cheminots, but one thing they all love and will never attack is railway infrastructure. SNCF may be a shitty company (mainly because it have been voluntary sabotaged by governments) but the people making those thousands of trains run everyday all over the country are almost the most passionate workers you could imagine. Yes they do have revendications, yes, they are good at striking, but they’ll never destroy the hardware and infrastructure they love and defend. Mainly because they respect it (railway is working because thousands people are working together to make it work) and also because of safety reasons : SNCF is one of the safest train network in the world because the cheminot culture puts safety on top of any other preoccupations. They’ll never harm infrastructure and never, never ever in a coordinated way. Also, when you criticize cheminots and SNCF, which I agree are far from perfect corporation and company and deserves criticism, don’t forget to look at the rest of the world and you’ll discover that most countries in the world would love to have our train network. It’s easy to brag about having imperfect things but it’s also easy to forget that at least we have them.
      • 2y ago
• oldpersonintx 2y ago
  do you honestly believe France is going to engage in direct military action against Russia? even for HN-distortion-field hallucinations, this is ridiculous
• rsynnott 2y ago
  > Nuking Moscow would of course be too much ... Yes, that might be a _little_ extreme for [check notes] disrupting the trains. I mean, maybe if it was Switzerland, but I don't think France takes train punctuality quite _that_ seriously. (But yeah, I'd assume this was Putin.)
• whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  > It's also pretty clearly Russia's style. Arson attacks are actually an extremely French phenomenon, over 1000 cars are often torched a night on New Years Eve >but this sort of escalation cannot be left unchecked Some of us would rather not die in a world war because a sports event was mildly disrupted
  • ossobuco 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • raverbashing 2y ago
      I doubt Dang has the bandwidth to keep an eye on coordinated actions on HN but it is something interesting to observe
      • swat535 2y ago
        What exactly is Dang supposed to do here ? Ban people who don’t desire further escalation towards a nuclear war whom you label as “Russian apologists”..?
    • sofixa 2y ago
      I agree, there are tons of Russian apologists (at best, but let's assume best intentions) around here.
      • ossobuco 2y ago
        Apologists of what? There is no evidence that this was done by Russia, so nothing to apologize really. How far gone do you have to be to call "Russian apologists" people who are horrified at calls for a nuclear war?
        • sofixa 2y ago
          There are no calls for nuclear war. And it's wild to call warmongers people who want action to stop appeasement of the warmonger on the global stage, Russia. There is plenty circumstantial evidence Russia was behind this, and they're the only ones that make sense. I've listed tons of it in sibling comments, but just the fact that multiple Russians were arrested in the past few weeks plotting against the olympics, including a guy who set himself on fire with chemicals in his hotel rooms, it's obvious Russia wants to cause disruptions. We'll see when the results of the investigation come out, but when they do say Russia, what do you think an appropriate answer would be?
• ossobuco 2y ago
  > I'd be very interested to see how France responds. Nuking Moscow would of course be too much No evidence to be shown of Russia's involvement in this, but let's mention a nuclear escalation. This is absolutely delirious. I hope the people who actually take decision are just a tiny bit more level-headed than you are.
  • sofixa 2y ago
    > No evidence to be shown of Russia's involvement in this Only it fits their modus operandi perfectly, they were caught in similar acts all around Europe, Russian operatives were arrested in France as recently as last week (and a few weeks prior there was a guy who burned himself with chemicals trying to build a bomb in his hotel room), and a russian operative was arrested in Bulgaria yesterday bragging about Russian plans to disrupt the Olympics. It's hard to imagine anyone else being involved. Of course there will be a thorough investigation.
    • ossobuco 2y ago
      Hard for you maybe. Israel is already calling it an act of sabotage by Iran.
      • sofixa 2y ago
        Without any proof, while France has literally arrested multiple Russians in France preparing for sabotage.
        • ossobuco 2y ago
          There you go[0]. French activists are behind this, not Russian agents. Maybe next time, before you incite for a WWIII, cool your head and think? Luckily the french government isn't as out of control as the average HNer/redditor, or we'd all be hiding underground by now. Mind, these are anarchists we're talking about, and I assure you anarchists absolutely despise Russia and even the USSR. So think twice before going about some wild theory about these activists being paid by Russia. As an aside note, I find the "ULTRA-left" nomenclature to be ridiculous. - [0]: https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240729-far-left-extremists-likely-behind-france-rail-sabotage-minister-says https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240729-far-left-extremi...
• a-french-anon 2y ago
  So quick to create or fully believe in speculations and obviously biaised media (well, I don't believe one moment that there's purely neutral media or that I would be able to recognize it with certainty, but the BBC, lol). I'd like to remind you that the World Wars started because of alliance networks like these, with countries like mine clearly taking sides for not-so-obvious reasons. And not because of caricatures of cartoon baddies that dwarf what the Catholics and Ottomans made of Vlad Tepes.
• jwr 2y ago
  > I'd be very interested to see how France responds. I'd be interested to see if French businesses that chose to ignore the atrocities committed by Russia finally withdraw from that market. France has a number of large businesses that are still cosy with Russia: Auchan, Leroy Merlin, Decathlon, L'Oreal, Sanofi, Lacoste, BIC… the list is very long (see https://leave-russia.org/ https://leave-russia.org/). I thought these companies would be concerned with customer boycotts, but it doesn't seem that people care that much, I guess until rockets and drones start falling on their heads…