6 ms·

And now only rich corporations have the money to show off their big signs. Lots of smaller companies had to hide theirs, but ones like IKEA or MAKRO did manag

And now only rich corporations have the money to show off their big signs. Lots of smaller companies had to hide theirs, but ones like IKEA or MAKRO did manage to evade it, and will probably continue to evade it happily. Also some billboards are now empty, and are still covering up the tree line, because nobody wants to spend another cent giving the amount of money everyone had to pay up for this. I've actually moved out from Cracow shortly after this legislation, not directly because of it, but this surely contributed to the decision. The direction Cracow is heading to is clear -- you will have nothing and you'll be happy.

ktosobcy 2y ago
What were other reasons?
- lifestyleguru 2y ago
  3.5k EUR per meter for a flat in commie block perhaps? Cheap outsourcing jobs where you're old reaching a mere 40? Aggressive football hooligans?
  - self_awareness 2y ago
    Not sure why this is greyed out, every point is true. There was even a situation a few weeks ago where a guy went to the office with an axe and attacked someone. The guy wasn't even a football hooligan I think. https://www.wprost.pl/kraj/11746912/krakow-wtargnal-z-siekiera-do-biurowca-zaatakowal-pracownika-nowe-informacje.html https://www.wprost.pl/kraj/11746912/krakow-wtargnal-z-siekie...
  - ktosobcy 2y ago
    > 3.5k EUR per meter for a flat in commie block perhaps? Thank Koalicja Developerska and PiS for inflating property market... but meh "investors" > Cheap outsourcing jobs where you're old reaching a mere 40? 40 of what? > Aggressive football hooligans? When? Kraków is quite safe, especially compared to other places in Europe..
    - lifestyleguru 2y ago
      I don't care about your political shenanigans pis/po/twojastara/whatever. Oligarchs do in Poland whatever they want while poor Polish idiots only think about buying another 25 sqm apartment and a newer German car. 40 of potatoes, duh. The escapades of Wisła/Cracovia baboons are not normal. As long as anyone is randomly asked "which team do you support" the football is to be eliminated from the city.
      - ktosobcy 2y ago
        > The escapades of Wisła/Cracovia baboons are not normal. As long as anyone is randomly asked "which team do you support" the football is to be eliminated from the city. Are you stuck in the '90s? Ffs...
        lifestyleguru 2y ago
        People in Kraków get cut with machetes and still hear "za kim jesteś" in 2024. Football baboons should fuck off from the city.
- self_awareness 2y ago
  Price per meter when buying a flat was #1. #2 was hostility to private car transport (neglection of road infrastructure, introduction of car-free zones will surely happen soon). Traffic jams are the default state of things, and it's a waste of life. #3 is that it's a tourist city; a good place to visit, pay money and go home. Not a good place for me to live every day (I've lived there for 15 years, and if you're a happy citizen then good for you). Most of the people here are not from Cracow itself. Warsaw suffers from the same problem.
  - lifestyleguru 2y ago
    Polish society mentally is at the stage where car is the status symbol and part of their identity. Amplified by the fact that they're historically unable to construct their own car. Nobody is giving up their Mercedes/Volvo/BMW/Audi in a lease 1k EUR per month to walk around or drive bicycle around the city. Especially that employment regulations promote taking a lease for a car and having company's car is the ultimate benefit. Plus the obnoxious trend of huge SUVs and American-style pickups. People move out to the outskirts, buy more cars and bigger cars and then... they commute daily to the city.
    - kergonath 2y ago
      > People move out to the outskirts, buy more cars and bigger cars and then... they commute daily to the city. And then moan about traffic jams.
    - ptsneves 2y ago
      As a non pole living in Poland I think you are being unfair. The car mentality is not new, nor is it evil by itself. On the contrary it is supported by the reality that inner-cities are unbearably expensive and people need to live in the suburbs just like in the US. It is no irony that the same phenomenae has similar consequences. It is not people who are bad or stupid, on the contrary. In Wroclaw they added hundreds of KM of bike lanes....crisscrossing normal roads. I would like to take my children by bike to their kindergarten but I dont want me or them to die. So indeed i take my car, which i regret not being a damn fat SUV because i cannot damn stand being shaken out of my bones anymore. The roads are the German coblestone type and they are not crap because of the potholes. That is already a taken, no. The whole roads have severe long period troughs and hills that together with the pot holes make the experience a nightmare. Sprinkle that with tramlines, activated or not and I am currently considering moving out. The trams and buses work well but politicians and well meaning people often forget you need the car for things like the supermarket? I have a family of several so i cannot just take the tram or by bike for groceries. Oh my, i need a car. The sin, we are all "patola"[1] :). And this is not just in the city proper, the surroundings' roads are awful as well. I just damaged my rim and tire driving on a normal road 40Km/h while doing this gas guzzling hobby of taking my children to a local forest. I am a bit upset writing this because all these people in power in Europe dont have traditional families and exist in their own heaven on earth where they are independent in a very pure state. When i was 20 or if I would be a single I would get it, but with a family, please take your silly ideals elsewhere(this is for the mayor Jacek Sutryk who is unironically a bachelor). Portugal is a bit better in that the left leaning well-doers preach but people are too real to let things get ridiculous. The talking heads sometimes fantasize about bikes everywhere but then the cities are hilly and old so it is unfeasible to add bike lanes. [1] Patola is a derrogative name from pathological [family]. It is used to insinuate you come from a dysfunctional, often alcoholic family. Very common insult in Poland which I am fascinated about. I wonder if this insult exists in other Slavic countries.
dexen 2y ago
It is sad to see the correct reply grayed out. This kind of regulation is known to breed corruption & abuse, tilting the field heavily towards the highest spenders. Can only be enacted when ideology trumps well established knowledge & experience.
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  Zürich resident here. In this specific case the abuse is even pretty openly stated :( > The Supreme Court’s ruling cements a decision to remove more than three-fourths of its once-standing 172 billboards from the town, keeping the remainder available for culture and sports ads. By "culture and sports ads" they surely mean adverts by the government for its own subsidized services. Local government is a huge spender on billboard advertising around here, often for its own state run sports or events (invariably stuff that's popular with lefty civil service types like obscure dance performances). Lately they also love to paint trains and trams in garish colors, in an open advert for diversity ideology: https://www.bahnonline.ch/27379/mit-dem-zvv-gemeinsam-vorwaerts/ https://www.bahnonline.ch/27379/mit-dem-zvv-gemeinsam-vorwae... Die Farben und Formen des neuen visuellen Auftritts widerspiegeln die Buntheit und Diversität des gesamten ZVV-Netzes. ... and they don't seem to have a problem either with all the posters that get glued everywhere advertising May Day, Feminists for Anarchism and so on. The idea cantonal governments have a problem with "visual pollution" is kind of absurd, really. If that's actually the motivation then step one would be to stop buying billboard space with taxpayer money, stop flooding the city with rainbows, clean up all the pro-Gaza graffiti and go entirely without any of that for a few years. Once they've proven they have the discipline to clean up the sort of visual pollution they themselves tend to like, then they might have a moral leg to stand on for banning other forms of advertising.
  - lifestyleguru 2y ago
    I love the idea of acoustic and visual hygiene, fighting the acoustic and visual pollution. The flaw is in human nature and the attitude "but _we_ are allowed, _our_ case is different". If the enforcers will be local authorities, they will be unable to resist displaying out their message. If there is at least one CHF and one person in the promotion and marketing department, the idea will pop out. Hey look at the bright side, at least they didn't cover the tram's windows!
the_gipsy 2y ago
> this surely contributed to the decision I find it extremely hard to believe that someone would personally want to see more ads. Do you believe physical advertisements represent that some sort of specific political system is in place?
- cchi_co 2y ago
  [dead]
- self_awareness 2y ago
  I really dislike ads and I use adblock & umatrix like crazy. But: 1) Ads in cities are not penis enlargement ads nor mortgage ads. They are about what services are in which location in the city, 2) It's not really about ads, but about advertising in general, meaning you don't even get to show off the logo of your company. If there's a building standing in Cracow, it can't have any logos on it. Unless the company is rich, then it may have their logos. Good thing that Cracow in general doesn't have any tall buildings (well, just one). For me it's socialism at its finest. Forbid the poor, allow the rich. From ideological stance I prefer seeing ads, because I dislike socialism more than I dislike ads.
  - account42 2y ago
    > 1) Ads in cities are not penis enlargement ads nor mortgage ads. They are about what services are in which location in the city, Not the case anywhere I have been. Some will be for local businesses, most are for national or international behemoths. Pretty much the same as with ondline ads on so-called respectable sites.

ktosobcy 2y ago

What were other reasons?

lifestyleguru 2y ago
3.5k EUR per meter for a flat in commie block perhaps? Cheap outsourcing jobs where you're old reaching a mere 40? Aggressive football hooligans?
- self_awareness 2y ago
  Not sure why this is greyed out, every point is true. There was even a situation a few weeks ago where a guy went to the office with an axe and attacked someone. The guy wasn't even a football hooligan I think. https://www.wprost.pl/kraj/11746912/krakow-wtargnal-z-siekiera-do-biurowca-zaatakowal-pracownika-nowe-informacje.html https://www.wprost.pl/kraj/11746912/krakow-wtargnal-z-siekie...
- ktosobcy 2y ago
  > 3.5k EUR per meter for a flat in commie block perhaps? Thank Koalicja Developerska and PiS for inflating property market... but meh "investors" > Cheap outsourcing jobs where you're old reaching a mere 40? 40 of what? > Aggressive football hooligans? When? Kraków is quite safe, especially compared to other places in Europe..
  - lifestyleguru 2y ago
    I don't care about your political shenanigans pis/po/twojastara/whatever. Oligarchs do in Poland whatever they want while poor Polish idiots only think about buying another 25 sqm apartment and a newer German car. 40 of potatoes, duh. The escapades of Wisła/Cracovia baboons are not normal. As long as anyone is randomly asked "which team do you support" the football is to be eliminated from the city.
    - ktosobcy 2y ago
      > The escapades of Wisła/Cracovia baboons are not normal. As long as anyone is randomly asked "which team do you support" the football is to be eliminated from the city. Are you stuck in the '90s? Ffs...
      - lifestyleguru 2y ago
        People in Kraków get cut with machetes and still hear "za kim jesteś" in 2024. Football baboons should fuck off from the city.
self_awareness 2y ago
Price per meter when buying a flat was #1. #2 was hostility to private car transport (neglection of road infrastructure, introduction of car-free zones will surely happen soon). Traffic jams are the default state of things, and it's a waste of life. #3 is that it's a tourist city; a good place to visit, pay money and go home. Not a good place for me to live every day (I've lived there for 15 years, and if you're a happy citizen then good for you). Most of the people here are not from Cracow itself. Warsaw suffers from the same problem.
- lifestyleguru 2y ago
  Polish society mentally is at the stage where car is the status symbol and part of their identity. Amplified by the fact that they're historically unable to construct their own car. Nobody is giving up their Mercedes/Volvo/BMW/Audi in a lease 1k EUR per month to walk around or drive bicycle around the city. Especially that employment regulations promote taking a lease for a car and having company's car is the ultimate benefit. Plus the obnoxious trend of huge SUVs and American-style pickups. People move out to the outskirts, buy more cars and bigger cars and then... they commute daily to the city.
  - kergonath 2y ago
    > People move out to the outskirts, buy more cars and bigger cars and then... they commute daily to the city. And then moan about traffic jams.
  - ptsneves 2y ago
    As a non pole living in Poland I think you are being unfair. The car mentality is not new, nor is it evil by itself. On the contrary it is supported by the reality that inner-cities are unbearably expensive and people need to live in the suburbs just like in the US. It is no irony that the same phenomenae has similar consequences. It is not people who are bad or stupid, on the contrary. In Wroclaw they added hundreds of KM of bike lanes....crisscrossing normal roads. I would like to take my children by bike to their kindergarten but I dont want me or them to die. So indeed i take my car, which i regret not being a damn fat SUV because i cannot damn stand being shaken out of my bones anymore. The roads are the German coblestone type and they are not crap because of the potholes. That is already a taken, no. The whole roads have severe long period troughs and hills that together with the pot holes make the experience a nightmare. Sprinkle that with tramlines, activated or not and I am currently considering moving out. The trams and buses work well but politicians and well meaning people often forget you need the car for things like the supermarket? I have a family of several so i cannot just take the tram or by bike for groceries. Oh my, i need a car. The sin, we are all "patola"[1] :). And this is not just in the city proper, the surroundings' roads are awful as well. I just damaged my rim and tire driving on a normal road 40Km/h while doing this gas guzzling hobby of taking my children to a local forest. I am a bit upset writing this because all these people in power in Europe dont have traditional families and exist in their own heaven on earth where they are independent in a very pure state. When i was 20 or if I would be a single I would get it, but with a family, please take your silly ideals elsewhere(this is for the mayor Jacek Sutryk who is unironically a bachelor). Portugal is a bit better in that the left leaning well-doers preach but people are too real to let things get ridiculous. The talking heads sometimes fantasize about bikes everywhere but then the cities are hilly and old so it is unfeasible to add bike lanes. [1] Patola is a derrogative name from pathological [family]. It is used to insinuate you come from a dysfunctional, often alcoholic family. Very common insult in Poland which I am fascinated about. I wonder if this insult exists in other Slavic countries.

dexen 2y ago

It is sad to see the correct reply grayed out. This kind of regulation is known to breed corruption & abuse, tilting the field heavily towards the highest spenders. Can only be enacted when ideology trumps well established knowledge & experience.

mike_hearn 2y ago
Zürich resident here. In this specific case the abuse is even pretty openly stated :( > The Supreme Court’s ruling cements a decision to remove more than three-fourths of its once-standing 172 billboards from the town, keeping the remainder available for culture and sports ads. By "culture and sports ads" they surely mean adverts by the government for its own subsidized services. Local government is a huge spender on billboard advertising around here, often for its own state run sports or events (invariably stuff that's popular with lefty civil service types like obscure dance performances). Lately they also love to paint trains and trams in garish colors, in an open advert for diversity ideology: https://www.bahnonline.ch/27379/mit-dem-zvv-gemeinsam-vorwaerts/ https://www.bahnonline.ch/27379/mit-dem-zvv-gemeinsam-vorwae... Die Farben und Formen des neuen visuellen Auftritts widerspiegeln die Buntheit und Diversität des gesamten ZVV-Netzes. ... and they don't seem to have a problem either with all the posters that get glued everywhere advertising May Day, Feminists for Anarchism and so on. The idea cantonal governments have a problem with "visual pollution" is kind of absurd, really. If that's actually the motivation then step one would be to stop buying billboard space with taxpayer money, stop flooding the city with rainbows, clean up all the pro-Gaza graffiti and go entirely without any of that for a few years. Once they've proven they have the discipline to clean up the sort of visual pollution they themselves tend to like, then they might have a moral leg to stand on for banning other forms of advertising.
- lifestyleguru 2y ago
  I love the idea of acoustic and visual hygiene, fighting the acoustic and visual pollution. The flaw is in human nature and the attitude "but _we_ are allowed, _our_ case is different". If the enforcers will be local authorities, they will be unable to resist displaying out their message. If there is at least one CHF and one person in the promotion and marketing department, the idea will pop out. Hey look at the bright side, at least they didn't cover the tram's windows!

the_gipsy 2y ago

> this surely contributed to the decision I find it extremely hard to believe that someone would personally want to see more ads. Do you believe physical advertisements represent that some sort of specific political system is in place?

cchi_co 2y ago
[dead]
self_awareness 2y ago
I really dislike ads and I use adblock & umatrix like crazy. But: 1) Ads in cities are not penis enlargement ads nor mortgage ads. They are about what services are in which location in the city, 2) It's not really about ads, but about advertising in general, meaning you don't even get to show off the logo of your company. If there's a building standing in Cracow, it can't have any logos on it. Unless the company is rich, then it may have their logos. Good thing that Cracow in general doesn't have any tall buildings (well, just one). For me it's socialism at its finest. Forbid the poor, allow the rich. From ideological stance I prefer seeing ads, because I dislike socialism more than I dislike ads.
- account42 2y ago
  > 1) Ads in cities are not penis enlargement ads nor mortgage ads. They are about what services are in which location in the city, Not the case anywhere I have been. Some will be for local businesses, most are for national or international behemoths. Pretty much the same as with ondline ads on so-called respectable sites.