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Chicken wings advertised as 'boneless' can have bones – Ohio Supreme Court
- dmix 2y agoI guess it's like being upset seedless watermelon still occasionally have seeds. It basically means "to best of our ability" on an industrial scale, not 100% free.
- DangitBobby 2y agoUnexpected watermelon seeds are not likely to put you in the hospital with injury and illness, as was the fate of the affected patron.
- jfengel 2y agoI suppose they could, if you're allergic. People are allergic to other kinds of seeds.
- nkrisc 2y agoWhy would someone allergic to watermelon be eating watermelon?
- compsciphd 2y agowell someone asked this Q on Quora https://www.quora.com/Why-am-I-allergic-to-watermelon-seeds-and-not-the-flesh-of-the-watermelon https://www.quora.com/Why-am-I-allergic-to-watermelon-seeds-...
- gweinberg 2y agoI don't think it is. Nobody is supposed to be removing the seeds from "seedless" watermelons, but there is somebody whose job it is to remove the bones from "boneless" chicken. Ar bare minimum somebody screwed up. I'd say it's more like saying "sometimes you're going to get served which is undercooked". Which is true. But if it makes you sick, I think you have a legitimate claim for damages.
- CivBase 2y agoBut boneless wings are basically just chicken nuggets - cuts of chicken off the bone or scraps of chicken melded together and breaded. It's not like they figured out how to raise a chicken with no bones. The opportunity for quality control on "boneless wings" is much greater than that of seedless watermelon, and the consequences of getting it wrong are potentially much worse.
- justinclift 2y agoSure, or when you buy a "red car" and it turns up bright blue. Oh wait... perhaps descriptive words should actually be descriptive? ;)
- rasz 2y agoWould you like some of our Asbestos free Ice Cream? During manufacturing we remove Asbestos "to best of our ability" on an industrial scale!
- m463 2y agoI think you meant... Would you like some of our Asbestos free Baby Powder? During manufacturing we remove Asbestos "to best of our ability" on an industrial scale! https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/johnsonandjohnson-cancer/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/johnsona...
- yencabulator 2y agoThat's actually how it works, in the real world, with contaminants. Cocoa beans can contain up to 10mg of rodent poop per pound without any consequences. https://www.fda.gov/food/current-good-manufacturing-practices-cgmps-food-and-dietary-supplements/food-defect-levels-handbook https://www.fda.gov/food/current-good-manufacturing-practice... https://www.livescience.com/55459-fda-acceptable-food-defects.html https://www.livescience.com/55459-fda-acceptable-food-defect... https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/04/health/insect-rodent-filth-in-food-wellness/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/04/health/insect-rodent-filth-in... (And this case isn't even a contaminant; it's part of the ingredient that was not removed.)
- BrandoElFollito 2y ago10 mg per pound is such a weird ratio. This is like this object which is 5 feet and 12 mm long.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- bigyikes 2y agoWould this be an issue if we called a spade a spade? These aren’t boneless wings, they’re chickie nuggies :) Is it legal for my McNuggets to contain bones?
- krapp 2y agoIt's probably legal for your McNuggets to not even contain chicken. God alone knows what a bone would be from if you found one.
- shagie 2y agoSearching for a conclusion to Alexei Stolfat, https://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flsdce/9:2020cv81674/577861 https://dockets.justia.com/docket/florida/flsdce/9:2020cv816... https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/36253498/Stolfat_v_McDonalds_Corporation_et_al https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/36253498/Stolfat_v_... - it was eventually withdrawn. "Notice of Voluntary Dismissal; Dismissing Action without prejudice; Closing Case" It appears "yes, it is legal" however "if you are injured from it, this becomes a personal injury issue." https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/QAD%20645%20-%20Poultry%20Boneless%20Meat%20Defects.pdf https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/QAD%20645... If I read this correctly, for "size reduced meat" the tolerance for bone or bone like material is 0.40 inches in length is a "sample retained" and other situations its listed as a defect. There is an amount of tolerable defects based on the sample size. So yes, it is legal for McNuggets to contain bones.
- mikerg87 2y agoThe decision, since the AP can't be bothered. https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod/docs/pdf/12/2023/2023-Ohio-116.pdf https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod/docs/pdf/12/2023/2023-...
- faut_reflechir 2y agoThanks for posting this. Decision with the dissent is here: https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod/docs/pdf/0/2024/2024-Ohio-2787.pdf https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod/docs/pdf/0/2024/2024-O... I don't ever recall reading such an angry dissent, even in more politically charged cases. (I do think the dissent is correct on the merits, but sheesh.)
- autoexec 2y ago> The record reflects that the boneless chicken wing consumed by Berkheimer was prepared from a boneless, skinless, chicken breast What a strange thing to write. The record reflects that it was clearly not prepared from a boneless, skinless, chicken breast
- giantg2 2y agoThis isn't new, nor is it interesting. Same thing with fish filets for years.
- dawnerd 2y agoAnd it’s also more common in budget cut of chicken. Chicken from Aldi? Lots of bone fragments. Foster farms? Can’t recall having any.
- giantg2 2y agoYep, not uncommon in some cuts of beef and pork too.
- relaxing 2y agoAre you serious? I’ve never in my life found a bone fragment in chicken breast.
- dawnerd 2y agoYou must not shop at Aldi / other discount grocery stores buying house brand discount chicken...
- giantg2 2y agoI've found bone fragments in pork, beef, and chicken. They are usually cheaper brands and usually specific cuts. In chicken breasts you will most often find the bone fragment attached where it would meet the wishbone or breast bone.
- gweinberg 2y agoFish bones are different from chicken bones.
- BadHumans 2y agoFrom the actual decision: > According to Berkheimer, he estimated the chicken bone was between one and one-half inches and two inches, but he had no reason to dispute the doctor's note describing the chicken bone as five centimeters long. I just found this funny because it makes it sound as if Berkheimer believes 5 cm is much bigger than 1.5 to 2 inches when 5 centimeter is just about 2 inches.
- giantg2 2y agoHow do you properly chew your food and not notice a 2" bone? Honestly, that's the most interesting part of the article.
- silisili 2y agoThis was my first thought. I don't want to victim blame here, but more curious how in the world this person eats? Is he just swallowing them whole? I have so many questions.
- giantg2 2y agoI am curious about the mechanics. But also, in order for victim blaming to take place, one has to actually be a victim. I'm not sure they were in this case, given the circumstances. It seems the courts have also come to that conclusion.
- eropple 2y ago[flagged]
- Mwurk 2y agoNo, it's not. 5 cm = 1.97 inch
- eropple 2y agoWow, I had a hell of a moment there. I think I multiplied 25mm-per-inch (woodworker rule of thumb, I work in metric in the shop and .4mm isn't a big deal) and flipped it around in my head. This is why you measure twice, cut once. Gonna go walk into the sea now.
- Aeolun 2y agoI think this is extremely weird. If someone is allergic to nuts, and they’re being served ‘nut free’ food that has some traces of nuts in, and that sends them to the emergency room people would lose their minds. If I were served boneless wings, and I found a 5cm bone in there it’d be far outside the bounds of expectation.
- metadat 2y agoWho's allergic to bones? Not just chokes on them, but truly has an allergy?
- deelowe 2y agoTwo totally different scenarios.
- dmix 2y agoIt's way easier to eliminate nuts being in or near the production line of a food product than it is to remove every single bone from something that inherently has bones, but even then: > The Nut Free labeling means the product does not contain nuts. However, it doesn't guarantee the snack was made inside a dedicated nut free facility. Whether or not the nut free product was created on the same production line as a non nut free snack, is unknown. https://www.nutfree.org/different-kinds-of-nut-free-labeling/ https://www.nutfree.org/different-kinds-of-nut-free-labeling... the label doesn't mean the process it was made was completely immune from contamination.
- oldkinglog 2y agoIn the UK we've labelled things made in factories that also handle nuts since forever. I assume it's an EU thing that we never got rid of.
- ronsor 2y agoFood products in the US have the same labelling.
- emrah 2y ago
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y agoHope this doesn't affect my boneless tofu
- protastus 2y ago"may have bones" would be a more accurate headline, in line with the tone of the ruling. "may" warns of the possibility while being less definitive than "can". I'm surprised the ruling was 4-3 and not a bigger majority. I don't expect the supplier to have extremely tight quality controls around the presence of bones. Boneless is a convenience, not an absolute guarantee.
- oldkinglog 2y ago> Boneless is a convenience, not an absolute guarantee. It's a guarantee in any jurisdiction with adequate consumer protection law.
- roenxi 2y agoAs long as businesses are allowed to sell bone-lite chicken I suppose. Guaranteeing a chicken is boneless sounds both expensive and a waste of time. People should be chewing their food.
- Retric 2y agoIt’s cheap to push meat through an extruder that’s going to remove large bone fragments. Chicken nuggets, sausage, tenders etc don’t have an issue with bones, it’s really a consequence of how wings are prepared that’s risky which in most contexts would create a liability concern.
- Retric 2y agoBeing 4-3 suggests it’s not a clear cut case. The courts ruling that chickens contains bones and therefore consumers should expect them is arbitrary. Chickens also contain salmonella etc, consumer expectations around boneless wings essentially rests on industry practices not inherent limitations. McNuggets and cheeseburgers aren’t going to contain 2 inch bone fragments but boneless wings may so buyer beware.
- yencabulator 2y ago
- healsdata 2y agoWell this is going to be an upcoming episode of Food Theory
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoInsane ruling. Words have meaning. It’s at worst, negligent and dangerous, at best fraud and false advertising.
- harrisi 2y agoI think calling breaded chicken breast a "wing" is the more clear issue. If I sold "bone-ful chicken breast" which was actually just a chicken wing, I'd expect to get in some kind of trouble. I don't understand why it's accepted in the other direction.
- NikkiA 2y agoI could accept 'boneless' to mean 'not necessarily free of ground up bone mixed amid the chicken that is too small to cause issues', but 'not necessarily free of solid pieces of bone' is absurd.
- TiredOfLife 2y agoWords stopped to have meaning when they redefined literally as figuratively.
- Kon-Peki 2y agoAt the time of me writing this, none of the comments address the real issue here. The guy who swallowed a 5cm chicken bone was asking for 12 of his fellow citizens to take a look at the facts and decide whether it was reasonable to expect these specific boneless chicken wings to not contain a 5cm bone. The Ohio Supreme Court said no, you can’t even ask that question, because you are ridiculous for thinking that “boneless” chicken wings means there are no bones. My wife grew up in Ohio, and she is constantly telling me about some great thing about Ohio from when she was a kid. And every single F’ing time I type it into Google and discover that this thing no longer exists. Every time. My sister currently lives in Ohio and tells me about all the backsliding going on. Her kids are just about ready to leave for college (out of state), and she’ll tell anyone that listens that, if you have the choice, you are insane to raise young children in Ohio. And she’s a Republican. Way to go Ohio https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=thu8DWsirJo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=thu8DWsirJo
- justin66 2y ago> My sister currently lives in Ohio and tells me about all the backsliding going on. Her kids are just about ready to leave for college (out of state), and she’ll tell anyone that listens that, if you have the choice, you are insane to raise young children in Ohio. And she’s a Republican. Does she express any sense of personal responsibility or remorse? Republicans have had a gerrymandered supermajority in the state senate, not to mention the governorship, for well over a decade.
- LargoLasskhyfv 2y agoLol. That reminds me of my first ever misadventure at KFC in .de around 2002, when I've only been used to Chicken Mc Nuggets by McD, and never been to a KFC before. (There weren't many of them in Germany at the time, anyways) Gone there because a few friends wanted to, couldn't even believe I didn't know KFC. Got some, took a first bite... CRUNCH OUCH! WTF?! I really expected them to be boneless.
- josefritzishere 2y agoWords don't mean things is an interesting legal precedent.
- shagie 2y agoIf this is mislabeled, it is mislabeled as a wing. Boneless wings are not defined by the USDA. https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/PoultryStandard.pdf https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/PoultrySt... §70.231 Boneless poultry breasts, drumsticks, thighs, and legs -- A Quality. The standards of quality contained in this section are applicable to raw poultry products labeled as ready-to-cook "boneless (kind) breasts," "boneless (kind) drumsticks," "boneless (kind) thighs," "boneless (kind) legs," or with words of similar import. The product shall consist of poultry meat of the kind specified (such as chicken or turkey). (a) The breasts, drumsticks, thighs, or legs shall be cut as specified in AMS §70.210(f) (1), (2), (4), (5), or (6), respectively. (b) The bone or bones shall be removed in a neat manner without undue mutilation of adjacent muscle. You'll note the lack of definition of "boneless wings" and that boneless means removing of the bones rather than creating some amount of meat that lacks bones. Boneless wings are actually breast meat rather than wing meat ( https://apnews.com/article/super-bowl-boneless-wings-culinary-lie-7bae0f861af227f53318e5ddfcce771f https://apnews.com/article/super-bowl-boneless-wings-culinar... ). Words mean things... but there are no words that mean things with the definition of "boneless wing" according to the USDA.