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It's an odd feeling to have seen the rapid decline of QoL on the interior, know it was to drive margins back above 30% / $25B/quarter, leave because of it, the

It's an odd feeling to have seen the rapid decline of QoL on the interior, know it was to drive margins back above 30% / $25B/quarter, leave because of it, then profit from it. Feels unethical. I guess that feeling is just having the dissonance of the nature of business in your face. Though I do hold that the decisions made to squeak out a couple extra % points will be crushing in the long run. Even just today: reality is Google is 4th place to OpenAI, Anthropic, and Meta in AI and its not really close. Each individual step is arguable, but the cracks are there. And leadership is too MBA-y/trend-following to do anything about it. Ex. through August '22 the line was there was going to be a special pot of increased raises to combat all the talent leaving for Meta. Then once Mark started firing, all that went far away, promo quotas to manager level were dropped to ~0, there's ceremonial cullings weekly, and its not of managers. Edit for child comment: I respect what you're saying: I'd advise its better to invite conversation, than say its all a simple binary option, especially in the face of me pointing out the same thing. Ex. morale is trash, outsourcing is rampant, virtually all new headcount is overseas, and _actual_ efficiency, productivity, is lower than it ever has been. The more simplistic view would advise companies could just fire 90% of staff and go into maintenance mode, but for some reason, they never do. Also, note that "efficiency" on HN arguments of this form means "get the managers / slackers out of the way" -- economic effiency means "profits are 0". Neither happened here. Never been a better time to be a manager, and slackers aren't going away, if their slacking was visible to managers, they would have been gone already.

zooq_ai 2y ago
It's called supply/demand and living in reality. If GOOG stocks drops 30% relative to it's peers, a majority of them will leave ship. So, you can't reap the benefits of increased stock price and yet complain when companies get efficient
- arebop 2y ago
  The complaint is not that Google is too efficient. It is that Google is achieving apparent improvements in efficiency by taking steps that improve the short-term metrics and have net negative long-term impact. So, OP is disputing the senior management claim that this cost base reengineering is legitimately "durable."
- hiddencost 2y ago
  The cost savings have been bad for Google. Reduced productivity significantly. A lot of things are failing behind the scenes. A lot of the revenue lift is coming from short term hacks that will not lead to sustained growth.
  - zooq_ai 2y ago
    SREs and other Engineers have an mismatched sense of importance of what really matters for running a profitable business. And given a choice they will always invest and advocate more hiring, more quality, more gatekeeping, more process
    - refulgentis 2y ago
      You're applying a Current Thing (2 years old and still kicking!) template on something that doesn't match the template. This will be the 3rd time you're hearing from a Googler that this made gatekeeping and process significantly worse. It's not straightforward to imagine why, and given your interest in engaging in conversation, it's certainly odd to not be curious why. Once you understand more, you will appreciate this template you enjoy even more. No reason to cling to in every situation, repeating it in a boring way that makes you look boneheaded.
      - zooq_ai 2y ago
        from my interactions with Googlers, they are pretty bad at assessing non-leetcode related strategy. E.g Ask 10 Googler Engineers and at least 80% think AI is hype and left to them they will underinvest in it.
        refulgentis 2y ago
        Another random comment. I left Google to do an AI startup. I agree with your general observation and have many highly specific hair-raising observations to back it up. I cannot tell based on your erratic contributions if you are GPT 3.5.
wormlord 2y ago
Hopefully the death of Google will provide sustenance for a new wave of companies the way a whale fall provides for the scavengers of the deep.
- bsimpson 2y ago
  If you think one of history's largest companies, inexorably woven into the fabric of the digital age, is going to "die" in any meaningful way soon, you need to reevaluate your model of the world. I have lots of criticisms about the people in charge of Google products over the last decade, but it's a very long way from the stratosphere to the ground.
  - sitkack 2y ago
    What is your experience with how Google operates internally? The finally seen from Thelma and Loise, that is how Google ends.
asah 2y ago
Google invested in Anthropic: https://www.google.com/search?q=google+invests+in+anthropic https://www.google.com/search?q=google+invests+in+anthropic

zooq_ai 2y ago

It's called supply/demand and living in reality. If GOOG stocks drops 30% relative to it's peers, a majority of them will leave ship. So, you can't reap the benefits of increased stock price and yet complain when companies get efficient

arebop 2y ago
The complaint is not that Google is too efficient. It is that Google is achieving apparent improvements in efficiency by taking steps that improve the short-term metrics and have net negative long-term impact. So, OP is disputing the senior management claim that this cost base reengineering is legitimately "durable."
hiddencost 2y ago
The cost savings have been bad for Google. Reduced productivity significantly. A lot of things are failing behind the scenes. A lot of the revenue lift is coming from short term hacks that will not lead to sustained growth.
- zooq_ai 2y ago
  SREs and other Engineers have an mismatched sense of importance of what really matters for running a profitable business. And given a choice they will always invest and advocate more hiring, more quality, more gatekeeping, more process
  - refulgentis 2y ago
    You're applying a Current Thing (2 years old and still kicking!) template on something that doesn't match the template. This will be the 3rd time you're hearing from a Googler that this made gatekeeping and process significantly worse. It's not straightforward to imagine why, and given your interest in engaging in conversation, it's certainly odd to not be curious why. Once you understand more, you will appreciate this template you enjoy even more. No reason to cling to in every situation, repeating it in a boring way that makes you look boneheaded.
    - zooq_ai 2y ago
      from my interactions with Googlers, they are pretty bad at assessing non-leetcode related strategy. E.g Ask 10 Googler Engineers and at least 80% think AI is hype and left to them they will underinvest in it.
      - refulgentis 2y ago
        Another random comment. I left Google to do an AI startup. I agree with your general observation and have many highly specific hair-raising observations to back it up. I cannot tell based on your erratic contributions if you are GPT 3.5.

wormlord 2y ago

Hopefully the death of Google will provide sustenance for a new wave of companies the way a whale fall provides for the scavengers of the deep.

bsimpson 2y ago
If you think one of history's largest companies, inexorably woven into the fabric of the digital age, is going to "die" in any meaningful way soon, you need to reevaluate your model of the world. I have lots of criticisms about the people in charge of Google products over the last decade, but it's a very long way from the stratosphere to the ground.
- sitkack 2y ago
  What is your experience with how Google operates internally? The finally seen from Thelma and Loise, that is how Google ends.

asah 2y ago

Google invested in Anthropic: https://www.google.com/search?q=google+invests+in+anthropic https://www.google.com/search?q=google+invests+in+anthropic