3 ms·
I think people should be able to do what they want with their time. I don’t think people should have to sell their labor for a wage in order to live. I wonder
by velcrovan 2y ago
I think people should be able to do what they want with their time.
I don’t think people should have to sell their labor for a wage in order to live. I wonder what happens to your opinions about caffeine in a society where owners have little to no leverage over workers, or where the workers are generally also the owners.
- sershe 2y ago> I wonder what happens to your opinions about caffeine Something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_coffee_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_coffee_crisis
- mhb 2y agoWhat kind of tea do they serve in the gulag?
- velcrovan 2y agoI dunno, ask the people who work at Mondragon. https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/about-us/ https://www.mondragon-corporation.com/en/about-us/
- ta988 2y agocare to explain?
- TeaBrain 2y agoThey were trying to be irrelevantly clever. Mondragon is a worker cooperative, where workers are the "owners".
- velcrovan 2y agoSure. I was replying to a comment in which worker ownership and worker leverage were being equated with "the gulag", a collective term for the Soviet Union prison/labor camp system. To illustrate that large-scale freedom, ownership, and autonomy do not result in labor camps, I provided Mondragon as a productive counter-example. Mondragon is a federation of worker-owned cooperatives that netted €593 million on €11 billion in revenue in 2023, and which did not make use of a forced labor camp or prison system to achieve these results. Instead, they use widely distributed equity ownership and democratic control of the workplace to create a good work environment and a healthy culture. Since the comment I was replying to did not invest any words in supporting their comparison of worker ownership with a system of forced labor camps, I responded in spirit, inviting them with a minimum of words and effort to investigate possible counter-examples to their mental model.
- ta988 2y agoThat makes a lot more sense with the explanation thanks.
- asats 2y agoUnironically this kind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifir
- shrimp_emoji 2y agoI think people should be able to instantiate super hot anthropomorphic girlfriends of their choice into and out of real life at will. (Me first; I thought it up.)
- themaninthedark 2y agoI agree, we should structure society so that people don't have to sell their labor to live merely that they choose to do so. We should give those who choose not to sell their labor the ability to go and live without buying and consuming the labor of others.
- amanaplanacanal 2y agoUnfortunately, there is almost nowhere on earth where a Hunter-gatherer can survive any more. The few remaining have been pushed to the very edge of survival by agriculturalists taking all the best land.
- guerrilla 2y agoWhen I understood this is when I formally became an anarchist. Before grasping that, I didn't realize that I really didn't have a choice, no matter what. You serve or you die. Those are the options.
- vouaobrasil 2y agoThat is absolutely true. And the reason is that if you did have a choice, the system would crumble quite easily since those that find the system intolerable would then have somewhere to go and start something new or just live.
- guerrilla 2y agoThe system didn't crumble in fronteir times, that is to say 99% of history. The global monoply of states is just over a century old. This is new.
- shrimp_emoji 2y agoI used to think that was what this song was about: https://youtu.be/wC10VWDTzmU https://youtu.be/wC10VWDTzmU
- mrinterweb 2y agoIdeally we would live in that utopia, but the vast majority of us live in the reality of needing a wage.
- vouaobrasil 2y agoYes, indeed. But that does not mean we cannot fight for that utopia.