8 ms·
Perhaps one day, we can return to the days when a KB was a KB and a MB was a MB. Those grand old days, when we all accepted kilo and mega stretch a little more
by robxorb 2y ago
Perhaps one day, we can return to the days when a KB was a KB and a MB was a MB. Those grand old days, when we all accepted kilo and mega stretch a little more for computers. Because in binary, base10 metric is a wee bit of a shoehorn. Just a bit.
- SoftTalker 2y agoIt all changed when "normal people" started using computers. 1 KB = 1024 bytes makes perfect sense except to 98% of the world.
- ssl-3 2y ago98% of the world doesn't even know that details like this exist. They never have the opportunity to question the sensibility of one or the other.
- TheCleric 2y agoI think it’s also the SI standards pedants who can’t imagine a kilogram might be a different context than a kilobyte.
- croes 2y agoQuick, how many gibibyte are 1234567890 byte?
- ffsm8 2y agoQuick, how many blocks will 4096 bytes use on my storage device? The argument is that the base10 interval makes no sense with computers, because they're physically base2. You can't really have 10 without wasting 2, and that's why it made sense to use 1024 instead of 1000. Personally I feel the pushback against gibi/mibi/kibi overblown. It's ultimately better to be coherent everywhere and always specify everything with decimals/rounded over random context dependent decisions. But still, the original argument for 1024 made sense too.
- hn_go_brrrrr 2y ago> Quick, how many blocks will 4096 bytes use on my storage device? 1 or 8, depending.
- akira2501 2y agoAre we doing our own ECC or are we relying on the controller to do it? If the controller is doing it, how big is that block actually?
- croes 2y agoHow many blocks do 1234567890 bytes use? Unless you have some well known powers of 2 you have to calculate anyway. To be able to convert easily from byte to gibibyte, mebibyte, gibibyte, etc. is a bigger benefit. Just moving the decimal sperator to convert the units is big advantage of the metric system.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- steve1977 2y agoThe civilized world is also using kilometers for example. Kilo has its roots in Greek and literally means thousand.
- bobmcnamara 2y agoTwo kinds of countries out there. Those that use metric and those that have gone to the moon.
- makeitdouble 2y agoNASA might be the agency who most bitterly regrets not having paid more attention to units and gone metric earlier.
- steve1977 2y agoI get your point, but let's not forget where most of the US rocket technology is coming from.
- bobmcnamara 2y agoTwo time world war champs!!!
- robxorb 2y agoMaybe they'd have gone more times, more safely, or more quickly if they hadn't been befuddled by having to deal constantly with archaic and nonsensical imperial units?
- bobmcnamara 2y agoMaybe, or maybe they would have struggled with the same challenges we saw Tupolev struggling with to produce the TU-4. Practically, physical objects need built. If you're not doing it yourself you've got to work within the limits of your suppliers or push them.
- pizza 2y agoLet's compromise and go with kibigrams
- yyyfb 2y agoNo it all really changed when storage service manufacturers realized that they could market 1,000,000,000 bytes as "1 gigabyte", to people who then saw their computer tell them that there was about 7% less than a gigabyte in there.
- Hikikomori 2y agoI think that started before the gigabyte.
- Izkata 2y agoCan't say when they started using it, but gigabyte external hard drives would be about when the gap got large enough normal people started to notice it.
- latentsea 2y agoYup, this is when I started to really notice it too.
- Hikikomori 2y agoThey did it the 70s.
- jltsiren 2y agoIt's a conflict between communications and storage. If you are doing data communications, you are probably dealing with phenomena measured in hertz. Those use SI prefixes, so it's natural to use them with bits as well. But if you are doing data storage, there are many natural power-of-two structures. Using 1024-based prefixes with them often leads to more convenient numbers.
- Buttons840 2y agoI know about 1 KB = 1024 bytes, sometimes. I'm a computer nerd, grew up playing on computers and hacking on them, and I'm a programmer now. But, if someone asks me for a good explanation why 1 KB != 1000 bytes, I don't have a good answer. I know about powers of 2, but why are powers of 2 more important than "kilo" meaning 1000 like it does in every other context? It's like if a kilometer wasn't 1000 meters, because of the way car odometers worked, or the shape of the tires or something. Why would technical details about a car change the meaning of "kilometer"?
- wizzwizz4 2y agoAddressing, at some point, always ends up with physical wires representing bits, so chips are manufactured with power-of-two sizes. It's like asking why we measure crude oil in barrels.
- Buttons840 2y agoYes. I know. I've taken an architecture course in university, and I've completed the nand2tetris course and have conceptually build a computer from nand gates up. I ask again: > why are powers of 2 more important than "kilo" meaning 1000 like it does in every other context?
- wizzwizz4 2y agoWhy are oil barrels more important than the SI units of volume we use in every other context?
- saagarjha 2y ago[Insert American flag emoji here]
- Buttons840 2y agoI thought we were taking about SI units, their general meaning, and the technical details of computers. Barrels seem completely unrelated to those things, being neither a SI unit, nor having to do with computers. Like a lot of arguments, we're arguing over the definition of a word here ("kilobyte"), nothing more. I'm asking why technical details about a computer are so important they can override the generally understood (and well defined) meaning of that word.
- mlfreeman 2y agoEven if we can't can we think of better names? "kibibyte" sounds like a dog treat not a unit of measurement.
- IshKebab 2y agoI agree. I don't care how technically correct they are if I sound like an idiot when I'm saying it. The best I've seen is just to have the base as a subscript, like `kB_2` (2 is subscript) or `kB_10`. Though in practice I have yet to come across a situation where the difference a) matters and b) isn't clear from the context.
- viraptor 2y agoYou're just used to the common prefixes. Kibi is not any weirder than yotta, pico, or deci. They all sound silly if you think about it - so we just don't.
- IshKebab 2y agoNo it definitely is silly. Mebi is even worse.
- newzisforsukas 2y agoNo, its definitely not silly. Why make comments like this? I'll take the repercussions, but passing judgement on language by how things sound is doodoo behavior.
- robxorb 2y agoNot really. It's important for introduced language to sound appealing and appropriate for its use, or it will fail to catch on. If Apple has called the iPhone the gibiFon it'd have been far less likely to turn into the success it was.
- 2y ago
- croes 2y agoThe bigger the storages get the bigger the discrepancy. 1 pebibyte isn't 10^15 byte but more than 10% more.
- rvense 2y agoI've honestly never been in a situation where I actually cared about the difference. Just nerd pedantry.
- shakow 2y agoI remember in the 90's we used the prefix case to differentiate between SI (kB) and powers of 1024 (KB). Not sure how widespread it was though; no Internet to poll at the time :)
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]