8 ms·

Apple Users Are Keeping Their Devices for Longer as Upgrades Slow

scblock 2y ago
So is everyone, not just Apple users. Except for specific use cases 3 years in the context of a computer is no time at all now, and hasn't been for at least a decade.
- kmlx 2y ago
  a computer yes. a device that you carry everywhere, that you drop, that gets stolen etc etc less so
  - scblock 2y ago
    For a phone, assuming purchase of a higher end model, 4 or 5 years is nothing today.
anovikov 2y ago
Maybe because the devices are now, finally, not shitty and not prone to lots of bugs and don't break down so often? Every Apple phone from iPhone 11 and every mac from the first M1, were more or less bug free. It's not surprising people aren't rushing to trash them.
- null0ranje 2y ago
  Honestly, I was pretty happy with my iPhone 3G.
- superb_dev 2y ago
  If they didn't add USB-C to the iPhone, I wouldn't have upgraded for years
- lvspiff 2y ago
  I was honestly surprised when my company made me go from my intel to an m1 - the intel worked perfectly fine and so much more compatible for development purposes
- redserk 2y ago
  In my experience, Apple hardware has been quite stable for over a decade. While I think the stability makes it easier to stay on old devices, I'm not sure I agree that it's the primary driver. I love Apple's ecosystem. The devices interoperate very well, but Apple tries to make it feel like you're missing out on something if you don't have the full suite of devices. And unfortunately, it costs a lot to keep up. For example, I have an iPhone, an Apple Watch, a Macbook Pro (M2 Max, main workstation), an iPad, 2 Apple TV 4Ks, and a Mac Mini (M1, used as a secondary machine in my workshop). This year I upgraded my iPhone and Apple Watch after 3 years. Next year I anticipate replacing my iPad, the following year is the Mac Mini, and a couple years after that would be the MBP (which will be a $4300? expense?). While I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of disposable income... perhaps I'm being a bit stingy here, but spending more than $1500/yr feels rough. I can't see how anyone could mostly buy into Apple's ecosystem on an average disposable income level and not keep their devices for several years. If that's not bad enough, now Apple's really pushing their added services to get more out of the devices. Apple One is $40/mo. Even though it's a suite of services, a $40/mo subscription feels steep.
  - anovikov 2y ago
    Oh 2018 Intel macs butterfly keyboards were anything but good hardware. Cables used to wear out extremely quickly back then. There were a few other highly annoying quirks. Only by 2020 or so, hardware got really stable and pleasant to use. I heard M2 Airs had had overheating issues though, although i never owned one.
darth_avocado 2y ago
It’s because everything else is more expensive and people have lower discretionary spending. If my home insurance, auto insurance, health insurance, car payments, rent, grocery bills, childcare and pretty much everything else went up and stayed there, just maybe I can hold on to my older phone for one more year. Paul Krugman would disagree, but that’s about it.
- spoonjim 2y ago
  It’s also because the phones aren’t getting better as fast as they used to. When the megapixels were doubling from 1 to 2 it was noticeable. Now the photos are as good as I’ll ever need.
  - Night_Thastus 2y ago
    These days the real limiting factor is software over hardware when it comes to phone cameras. There's an enormous amount of processing dedicated to making them look just the way people want.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- refurb 2y ago
  I think it has more to do with the marginal improvements. The difference between an iPhone 6 and 7 is massive compared to an iPhone 14 versus 15.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Lightning vs USB is almost a reason to upgrade by itself
    - gumby 2y ago
      I was very excited by switching to USB C for my iphone, but by the time the phone was released it just didn't seem like an upgrade to my iphone 12, and I wasn't going to pay $1K just to get rid of a cable.
KiDD 2y ago
Ya but you want that new Apple Intelligence right?
- dylan604 2y ago
  This might be the first feature driven upgrade cycle that I can see people really wanting. This isn't an incremental update to an existing thing. This is a whole new thing that brings hype wagon to the masses in a probably the best integrated into daily use I've seen pitched.
runjake 2y ago
The M1 was a particularly good buy, IMHO. Going on 4 years now and it's still no slouch.
naravara 2y ago
Leave it to the financial press to take something that’s a win for both consumers and the environment and try to frame it as a problem.
tristor 2y ago
I went from upgrading every 2 years to planning to wait for 3. One additional year isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, and my phone is mostly capable of doing everything I want already. The biggest factor though is that I have become more suspicious of new features, rather than enthused by them. I actually don't use most of the new capabilities on my current phone other than the improved camera. Really I just want incremental hardware performance and battery life upgrades and the same capabilities, but I am not given easy options to just avoid the new features in many cases (e.g. forced to turn Siri on to use CarPlay as an example). Not sure if I'm representative of most Apple buyers, probably not, but I think this is not just me. When technology is exciting and new features are something you want, you will go and buy and shift money around to make it happen if necessary. But if you are not excited, and dread what's coming next (even less privacy, now with AI you don't control), it's a different story.
oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]
qwerpy 2y ago
Treat the battery well (avoid wireless charging when you can, don't charge when hot) and these devices can last a long time. And even when the battery starts to die, you can get an official replacement for much less than the cost of a new phone. If you're a typical high income tech person who upgrades their desktop, laptop, phone, tablet, and watch on a regular cycle, that's a staggering amount of money to stay on the treadmill. I'm consciously choosing to keep my devices as long as possible. I've given up smartwatches, my desktop and tablet are 8 years old, and I plan to keep my phone for at least 5 years.
- Toine 2y ago
  Avoid wireless charging ? What's wrong with it ?
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    Generates a lot of heat. I first noticed when my phone was unable to do nav while wirelessly charging in a rental car.
  - Shank 2y ago
    Wireless charging generates a lot more sustained heat, which can, hypothetically (and in some cases has been demonstrated to) cause chemical degradation of the battery faster. Heat and high charging speeds, combined with keeping the battery at extremes (close to 0%, close to 100%) is the worst combination.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- scarface_74 2y ago
  I just replace the battery. I don’t treat my phones battery with kid gloves. That being said, the battery capacity of my iPhone 12 Pro Max bought when it was first introduced is still at 80%
  - dghlsakjg 2y ago
ado__dev 2y ago
The year over year changes don't really necessitate an upgrade anymore. Even an iPhone 13 holds up really well against the 15. I've moved to a 2 year upgrade cycle, but honestly might even do 3 years.
riiii 2y ago
Didn't Apple stop slowing people's old phones down when they were caught a few years ago? That probably plays a factor.
- hot_gril 2y ago
  Yeah, they tried very hard to take my headphone jack away by slowing down my iPhone 6. I waited for them to add that option to disable the throttler. Only reason I recently stopped using that phone is it completely died from being dropped.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    The alternative was your phone shutting off as the battery got old
    - hot_gril 2y ago
      Mine almost never shut down once I disabled the throttling. Maybe once.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        And you don’t see an issue with that and why Apple might want to take precautions against it on a wider scale?
        hot_gril 2y ago
        Yes, I get it. Since they wanted to take this precaution, they could have told us and let us disable it. Instead, it was obvious that they tried to hide it for as long as possible. By the time someone proved it and there was enough PR fire to do something about it, probably a lot of frustrated users had already bought new phones. The end result for me personally was having a borderline unusable iPhone for how ever long this was, even though it was fairly new. And they never fixed the root cause, which was a seemingly flawed battery design.
- 2y ago
Apreche 2y ago
I got the iPhone 3G, 4, 5, 6, and 7 at release. New phone every two years like clockwork. Then I got the 12 mini because finally, a small phone again. Also the 7 was nearing the end of support. I still have the 12 mini. I will keep it until iOS no longer supports it. I also have an iPad Pro 3rd gen. I thought it would lose support this year, but no! It's confirmed at least one more year.
renewiltord 2y ago
I love these devices but we've got all M1 devices (two M1 Maxes, an M1 Air, an M1 iPad) and iPhones 13 and they're just too good to need to replace. Apple really blew it out of the water with that CPU class.
SkipperCat 2y ago
As someone who uses Mac products (macpro, ipad, iphone), I can say I've never had hardware from any other vendor which has lasted so long. Their gear stays functional for several years (especially the macbook pro) and the only reason I upgrade my iphone was because I get tired of replacing the battery. My old Macbook from 2016 is still being used by my wife and the only issue she has is hard drive space. The compute power is still spot on. My reason for upgrading to a M1 was just because I wanted to play with the ARM chipset. I've never had any other brand of laptop or phone age so well (maybe because my last Android was from 2014). There's a cost premium for Apple but I think over time, their gear is more cost effective.
- raspyberr 2y ago
  > Their gear stays functional for several years Wow!
  - thiht 2y ago
    Yes wow, because it’s not the norm. Before I switched to an iPhone, I needed to change my Android phone every 2 years or so (sometimes less) because they became completely unusable, from hardware issues (broken connectors) to software issues (I had 2 Nexus 5x that died because of a bootloop issue, unacknowledged by Google). Android also becomes extremely slow pretty quickly for some reason. For comparison I’ve had my iPhone 12 for 3,5 years and it shows no sign of slowness or battery issues or whatever, and I intend to keep it for at least 1 or 2 more years. When OP say it stays functional for several years, they mean it stays as functional as the first day for several years, with no degradation.
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      You would have had the same experience staying on Android. I used to switch Androids every ~2 years, but I've had my latest Android for >4 years and feel like I've got several more years in it.
      - thiht 2y ago
refurb 2y ago
I still have a couple old iPhone 7s that work just fine as basic phones that I don't care if I lose them or they are stolen. The only issue I'm seeing is the iOS updates. Some apps can't be downloaded on iOS 13 any more.
jl6 2y ago
The Apple upgrade treadmill is an immense transfer of wealth if you trade your old device in so it can be sold on the second-hand market. Used iPhones are a great way for nonrich people to get a decent phone at a low fraction of the price of a new one (with a high fraction of a new one’s functionality).
- Waterluvian 2y ago
  For me, the nice thing about buying a used 12 Pro Max for something like $250 is that I get a decent device while not having to worry much about it getting destroyed or lost.
RandallBrown 2y ago
I'm an iOS developer and try to upgrade every year using the Apple upgrade plan. Last year I couldn't. Their website just wouldn't let me, with an unspecified error. Other people with similar errors online found no way of fixing it, even after talking to customer service. It's possible I could have resolved the issue with a phone call, but instead I just dealt with having the phone a little longer. Now I'll own it and have another test device.
perfectstorm 2y ago
it's not just Apple devices, i'm still using my Pixel 6 Pro (launched in 2021). i used to upgrade every other year but these days the phones last longer without slowing down and everything else went up in prices. i see no compelling reason to upgrade (no significant camera upgrade or features worth upgrading for).
kevmo 2y ago
This isn't hard. The American middle class is disappearing.
- nozzlegear 2y ago
  Or the devices are just lasting longer.
manuelmoreale 2y ago
Im personally upgrading when iOS has reached end of life for my device. Currently on an 11 Pro Max and there aren’t any features I’m missing in my day to day. Plus the current Pro Max equivalent costs almost a month worth of average salary here so no wonder people are upgrading less frequently.
inopinatus 2y ago
It's not that I'm uninterested in upgrading; I have the budget, and the interest. It's that Apple don't offer the products I want anymore. I only upgrade my iPhone when there's a new touch ID model. I have no idea how large this segment is, but it's >1. If Apple kill off touch ID entirely, they'll lose me as a phone customer. My primary desktop development machine is still a 10-core 2017 iMac Pro. At EOFY every year since 2021 I've checked for a 27" or larger iMac or iMac Pro with Apple silicon. No such product, no sale. The Studio is a nope; the physical ergonomics and convenience of a single-unit workstation matter too much.
- jhickok 2y ago
  I still miss the old Pixel fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone. Perfect place to put it.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  I think the "they just don't make products for me anymore" realization is just part of getting older. This happens with everything, from phones to computers, to appliances, to movies and music, to cars... at some age we just stop being in the target market for mainstream products. I've really cut my spending back as I got older, simply because the things I want aren't getting made, and the things that are for sale I don't want.
angry_moose 2y ago
I'm still on an SE2 (April 2020) and plan to stay here until an SE4 releases. It's still completely fine for everything. I'd probably still be on an original SE, but the battery was poor and I broke the screen so it was easier to just upgrade then replace everything.
alsetmusic 2y ago
For many years, I was one of Apple's highest-end customers. I needed the fastest machines they offered for the workloads I threw at them. I made music in Logic Pro with a zillion plugin instruments and effects and I ran a ton of apps with a ton of open windows when I wasn't doing that. I always bought the PowerMacs and then Mac Pro and eventually the iMac Pro when Apple painted themselves into a thermal corner with the Mac Pro. I bought a MacBook Pro M1 Max in 2021 and started using it as my primary machine driving external Studio Displays. It's the first computer I've ever owned that doesn't feel the least bit slow as I approach the three year mark. I've been asking myself when I think I'll upgrade and I truly don't know; probably not before some incredible new software feature isn't available on this hardware. I used to replace machines when the three year AppleCare coverage expired or soon after. I can't see that happening any longer. To some degree, this isn't even about Apple Silicon (though that sure helps). Even my iMac Pro with Xeon processor was approaching a point where I'd have got to this milestone eventually. Apple Silicon accelerated the jump by a good margin. I have no doubt I'd be able to tell the difference if I got an M4 laptop whenever they arrive, but I'd struggle to justify it to myself. (I should mention, in fairness, that I've been on a hiatus from making music since partway through the pan and that undoubtedly makes a difference. But even then, I think the game has changed, at least for me.) I'll keep upgrading my iPhones on a much more regular basis because there's still substantial improvements that I can notice and appreciate (improved displays, cameras, industrial design, etc). I don't think that's going to be the case with my Macs any longer. This will likely be the oldest computer I've ever had as primary when it gets replaced, and I think by a large margin. It's a strange place to be after decades of computing on the bleeding edge.
- jwells89 2y ago
  The iMac Pro, while very noticeably slower than my M1 series machines, is still respectable. Reasonably snappy, quiet, and of course the display is great. It still runs the current macOS, but I'm sure that's changing soon. When that happens I might downgrade mine to Mojave and use it as an offline-only "zen pod" machine for creative work.
- encom 2y ago
  This pattern isn't unique to Apple computers. I upgraded my 4th gen Intel machine to a 14th gen last years (mobo finally crapped out), and it's by far the most underwhelming upgrade I've ever done. Sure it's faster some of the time, but in general use (not compiling or encoding) it doesn't feel much different. I remember going from a 100MHz 486 to a 300MHz AMD K6 in my youth, and then to 900MHz Tbird. That was some upgrades you could feel!
bigtex 2y ago
My wife is still using a Macbook Pro from mid 2009 that was bought as a gift from my father. I have had to replace the hdd a few times, but it still works. The problem now is some SSL certs don't work properly anymore, but installing Brave as resolved that issue for now.
ttepasse 2y ago
I'm still using an iPhone 6s from 2015, with one battery replacement. Nominally I wanted to upgrade the last few years, at least since the 12 generation, but each time I couldn’t be bothered and found the prices rather high. Now I’m again in the weird timespan waiting for a September event and deciding afterwards. Thing is: Did I really miss out on the mobile ecosystem in the last years? There are apps, most of them run fine or fine-ish. The biggest problem are lazy developers using non native toolkits. Games, obviously are another problem, but I’m more of a puzzle gamer. The biggest advance was photography but since I couldn’t integrate photography in my life in the last 15 years I don’t think I will now. Whenever I look at newer iPhones, I don’t really feel huge FOMO. What are the mobile use cases to always upgrade to the newest one? (Maybe because I’m primary a Mac user and the iPhone is more of an appendix to that.)
- ryandrake 2y ago
  I'm in the same boat as you, with a 7. Every time I look at maybe replacing it, I see how expensive the newer ones still are, and I just can't justify it. I don't care about gaming performance or the camera, and those seem to be the only things that really get improved year after year.
- fl0ki 2y ago
  Sounds like you still have TouchID instead of FaceID. The pandemic was quite a wakeup call for this, with far more people wearing masks than gloves, people using FaceID were set back much more than people using TouchID. Then Apple just made FaceID work even with masks. Now TouchID is further behind by still not working with gloves, while FaceID works in more situations than ever before. When you don't need to authorize a sensitive operation, just unlock, a paired Apple Watch can also be configured to unlock the iPhone.
underseacables 2y ago
I just really like the convenience of the fingerprint reader.

So is everyone, not just Apple users. Except for specific use cases 3 years in the context of a computer is no time at all now, and hasn't been for at least a decade.

kmlx 2y ago
a computer yes. a device that you carry everywhere, that you drop, that gets stolen etc etc less so
- scblock 2y ago
  For a phone, assuming purchase of a higher end model, 4 or 5 years is nothing today.

anovikov 2y ago

Maybe because the devices are now, finally, not shitty and not prone to lots of bugs and don't break down so often? Every Apple phone from iPhone 11 and every mac from the first M1, were more or less bug free. It's not surprising people aren't rushing to trash them.

null0ranje 2y ago
Honestly, I was pretty happy with my iPhone 3G.
superb_dev 2y ago
If they didn't add USB-C to the iPhone, I wouldn't have upgraded for years
lvspiff 2y ago
I was honestly surprised when my company made me go from my intel to an m1 - the intel worked perfectly fine and so much more compatible for development purposes
redserk 2y ago
In my experience, Apple hardware has been quite stable for over a decade. While I think the stability makes it easier to stay on old devices, I'm not sure I agree that it's the primary driver. I love Apple's ecosystem. The devices interoperate very well, but Apple tries to make it feel like you're missing out on something if you don't have the full suite of devices. And unfortunately, it costs a lot to keep up. For example, I have an iPhone, an Apple Watch, a Macbook Pro (M2 Max, main workstation), an iPad, 2 Apple TV 4Ks, and a Mac Mini (M1, used as a secondary machine in my workshop). This year I upgraded my iPhone and Apple Watch after 3 years. Next year I anticipate replacing my iPad, the following year is the Mac Mini, and a couple years after that would be the MBP (which will be a $4300? expense?). While I'm fortunate enough to have a lot of disposable income... perhaps I'm being a bit stingy here, but spending more than $1500/yr feels rough. I can't see how anyone could mostly buy into Apple's ecosystem on an average disposable income level and not keep their devices for several years. If that's not bad enough, now Apple's really pushing their added services to get more out of the devices. Apple One is $40/mo. Even though it's a suite of services, a $40/mo subscription feels steep.
- anovikov 2y ago
  Oh 2018 Intel macs butterfly keyboards were anything but good hardware. Cables used to wear out extremely quickly back then. There were a few other highly annoying quirks. Only by 2020 or so, hardware got really stable and pleasant to use. I heard M2 Airs had had overheating issues though, although i never owned one.

darth_avocado 2y ago

It’s because everything else is more expensive and people have lower discretionary spending. If my home insurance, auto insurance, health insurance, car payments, rent, grocery bills, childcare and pretty much everything else went up and stayed there, just maybe I can hold on to my older phone for one more year. Paul Krugman would disagree, but that’s about it.

spoonjim 2y ago
It’s also because the phones aren’t getting better as fast as they used to. When the megapixels were doubling from 1 to 2 it was noticeable. Now the photos are as good as I’ll ever need.
- Night_Thastus 2y ago
  These days the real limiting factor is software over hardware when it comes to phone cameras. There's an enormous amount of processing dedicated to making them look just the way people want.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
refurb 2y ago
I think it has more to do with the marginal improvements. The difference between an iPhone 6 and 7 is massive compared to an iPhone 14 versus 15.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Lightning vs USB is almost a reason to upgrade by itself
  - gumby 2y ago
    I was very excited by switching to USB C for my iphone, but by the time the phone was released it just didn't seem like an upgrade to my iphone 12, and I wasn't going to pay $1K just to get rid of a cable.

KiDD 2y ago

Ya but you want that new Apple Intelligence right?

dylan604 2y ago
This might be the first feature driven upgrade cycle that I can see people really wanting. This isn't an incremental update to an existing thing. This is a whole new thing that brings hype wagon to the masses in a probably the best integrated into daily use I've seen pitched.

runjake 2y ago

The M1 was a particularly good buy, IMHO. Going on 4 years now and it's still no slouch.

naravara 2y ago

Leave it to the financial press to take something that’s a win for both consumers and the environment and try to frame it as a problem.

tristor 2y ago

I went from upgrading every 2 years to planning to wait for 3. One additional year isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, and my phone is mostly capable of doing everything I want already. The biggest factor though is that I have become more suspicious of new features, rather than enthused by them. I actually don't use most of the new capabilities on my current phone other than the improved camera. Really I just want incremental hardware performance and battery life upgrades and the same capabilities, but I am not given easy options to just avoid the new features in many cases (e.g. forced to turn Siri on to use CarPlay as an example). Not sure if I'm representative of most Apple buyers, probably not, but I think this is not just me. When technology is exciting and new features are something you want, you will go and buy and shift money around to make it happen if necessary. But if you are not excited, and dread what's coming next (even less privacy, now with AI you don't control), it's a different story.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]

qwerpy 2y ago

Treat the battery well (avoid wireless charging when you can, don't charge when hot) and these devices can last a long time. And even when the battery starts to die, you can get an official replacement for much less than the cost of a new phone. If you're a typical high income tech person who upgrades their desktop, laptop, phone, tablet, and watch on a regular cycle, that's a staggering amount of money to stay on the treadmill. I'm consciously choosing to keep my devices as long as possible. I've given up smartwatches, my desktop and tablet are 8 years old, and I plan to keep my phone for at least 5 years.

Toine 2y ago
Avoid wireless charging ? What's wrong with it ?
- hot_gril 2y ago
  Generates a lot of heat. I first noticed when my phone was unable to do nav while wirelessly charging in a rental car.
- Shank 2y ago
  Wireless charging generates a lot more sustained heat, which can, hypothetically (and in some cases has been demonstrated to) cause chemical degradation of the battery faster. Heat and high charging speeds, combined with keeping the battery at extremes (close to 0%, close to 100%) is the worst combination.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
scarface_74 2y ago
I just replace the battery. I don’t treat my phones battery with kid gloves. That being said, the battery capacity of my iPhone 12 Pro Max bought when it was first introduced is still at 80%
- dghlsakjg 2y ago

ado__dev 2y ago

The year over year changes don't really necessitate an upgrade anymore. Even an iPhone 13 holds up really well against the 15. I've moved to a 2 year upgrade cycle, but honestly might even do 3 years.

riiii 2y ago

Didn't Apple stop slowing people's old phones down when they were caught a few years ago? That probably plays a factor.

hot_gril 2y ago
Yeah, they tried very hard to take my headphone jack away by slowing down my iPhone 6. I waited for them to add that option to disable the throttler. Only reason I recently stopped using that phone is it completely died from being dropped.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  The alternative was your phone shutting off as the battery got old
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    Mine almost never shut down once I disabled the throttling. Maybe once.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      And you don’t see an issue with that and why Apple might want to take precautions against it on a wider scale?
      - hot_gril 2y ago
        Yes, I get it. Since they wanted to take this precaution, they could have told us and let us disable it. Instead, it was obvious that they tried to hide it for as long as possible. By the time someone proved it and there was enough PR fire to do something about it, probably a lot of frustrated users had already bought new phones. The end result for me personally was having a borderline unusable iPhone for how ever long this was, even though it was fairly new. And they never fixed the root cause, which was a seemingly flawed battery design.
2y ago

Apreche 2y ago

I got the iPhone 3G, 4, 5, 6, and 7 at release. New phone every two years like clockwork. Then I got the 12 mini because finally, a small phone again. Also the 7 was nearing the end of support. I still have the 12 mini. I will keep it until iOS no longer supports it. I also have an iPad Pro 3rd gen. I thought it would lose support this year, but no! It's confirmed at least one more year.

renewiltord 2y ago

I love these devices but we've got all M1 devices (two M1 Maxes, an M1 Air, an M1 iPad) and iPhones 13 and they're just too good to need to replace. Apple really blew it out of the water with that CPU class.

SkipperCat 2y ago

As someone who uses Mac products (macpro, ipad, iphone), I can say I've never had hardware from any other vendor which has lasted so long. Their gear stays functional for several years (especially the macbook pro) and the only reason I upgrade my iphone was because I get tired of replacing the battery. My old Macbook from 2016 is still being used by my wife and the only issue she has is hard drive space. The compute power is still spot on. My reason for upgrading to a M1 was just because I wanted to play with the ARM chipset. I've never had any other brand of laptop or phone age so well (maybe because my last Android was from 2014). There's a cost premium for Apple but I think over time, their gear is more cost effective.

raspyberr 2y ago
> Their gear stays functional for several years Wow!
- thiht 2y ago
  Yes wow, because it’s not the norm. Before I switched to an iPhone, I needed to change my Android phone every 2 years or so (sometimes less) because they became completely unusable, from hardware issues (broken connectors) to software issues (I had 2 Nexus 5x that died because of a bootloop issue, unacknowledged by Google). Android also becomes extremely slow pretty quickly for some reason. For comparison I’ve had my iPhone 12 for 3,5 years and it shows no sign of slowness or battery issues or whatever, and I intend to keep it for at least 1 or 2 more years. When OP say it stays functional for several years, they mean it stays as functional as the first day for several years, with no degradation.
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    You would have had the same experience staying on Android. I used to switch Androids every ~2 years, but I've had my latest Android for >4 years and feel like I've got several more years in it.
    - thiht 2y ago

refurb 2y ago

I still have a couple old iPhone 7s that work just fine as basic phones that I don't care if I lose them or they are stolen. The only issue I'm seeing is the iOS updates. Some apps can't be downloaded on iOS 13 any more.

jl6 2y ago

The Apple upgrade treadmill is an immense transfer of wealth if you trade your old device in so it can be sold on the second-hand market. Used iPhones are a great way for nonrich people to get a decent phone at a low fraction of the price of a new one (with a high fraction of a new one’s functionality).

Waterluvian 2y ago
For me, the nice thing about buying a used 12 Pro Max for something like $250 is that I get a decent device while not having to worry much about it getting destroyed or lost.

RandallBrown 2y ago

I'm an iOS developer and try to upgrade every year using the Apple upgrade plan. Last year I couldn't. Their website just wouldn't let me, with an unspecified error. Other people with similar errors online found no way of fixing it, even after talking to customer service. It's possible I could have resolved the issue with a phone call, but instead I just dealt with having the phone a little longer. Now I'll own it and have another test device.

perfectstorm 2y ago

it's not just Apple devices, i'm still using my Pixel 6 Pro (launched in 2021). i used to upgrade every other year but these days the phones last longer without slowing down and everything else went up in prices. i see no compelling reason to upgrade (no significant camera upgrade or features worth upgrading for).

kevmo 2y ago

This isn't hard. The American middle class is disappearing.

nozzlegear 2y ago
Or the devices are just lasting longer.

manuelmoreale 2y ago

Im personally upgrading when iOS has reached end of life for my device. Currently on an 11 Pro Max and there aren’t any features I’m missing in my day to day. Plus the current Pro Max equivalent costs almost a month worth of average salary here so no wonder people are upgrading less frequently.

inopinatus 2y ago

It's not that I'm uninterested in upgrading; I have the budget, and the interest. It's that Apple don't offer the products I want anymore. I only upgrade my iPhone when there's a new touch ID model. I have no idea how large this segment is, but it's >1. If Apple kill off touch ID entirely, they'll lose me as a phone customer. My primary desktop development machine is still a 10-core 2017 iMac Pro. At EOFY every year since 2021 I've checked for a 27" or larger iMac or iMac Pro with Apple silicon. No such product, no sale. The Studio is a nope; the physical ergonomics and convenience of a single-unit workstation matter too much.

jhickok 2y ago
I still miss the old Pixel fingerprint sensor on the back of the phone. Perfect place to put it.
ryandrake 2y ago
I think the "they just don't make products for me anymore" realization is just part of getting older. This happens with everything, from phones to computers, to appliances, to movies and music, to cars... at some age we just stop being in the target market for mainstream products. I've really cut my spending back as I got older, simply because the things I want aren't getting made, and the things that are for sale I don't want.

angry_moose 2y ago

I'm still on an SE2 (April 2020) and plan to stay here until an SE4 releases. It's still completely fine for everything. I'd probably still be on an original SE, but the battery was poor and I broke the screen so it was easier to just upgrade then replace everything.

alsetmusic 2y ago

For many years, I was one of Apple's highest-end customers. I needed the fastest machines they offered for the workloads I threw at them. I made music in Logic Pro with a zillion plugin instruments and effects and I ran a ton of apps with a ton of open windows when I wasn't doing that. I always bought the PowerMacs and then Mac Pro and eventually the iMac Pro when Apple painted themselves into a thermal corner with the Mac Pro. I bought a MacBook Pro M1 Max in 2021 and started using it as my primary machine driving external Studio Displays. It's the first computer I've ever owned that doesn't feel the least bit slow as I approach the three year mark. I've been asking myself when I think I'll upgrade and I truly don't know; probably not before some incredible new software feature isn't available on this hardware. I used to replace machines when the three year AppleCare coverage expired or soon after. I can't see that happening any longer. To some degree, this isn't even about Apple Silicon (though that sure helps). Even my iMac Pro with Xeon processor was approaching a point where I'd have got to this milestone eventually. Apple Silicon accelerated the jump by a good margin. I have no doubt I'd be able to tell the difference if I got an M4 laptop whenever they arrive, but I'd struggle to justify it to myself. (I should mention, in fairness, that I've been on a hiatus from making music since partway through the pan and that undoubtedly makes a difference. But even then, I think the game has changed, at least for me.) I'll keep upgrading my iPhones on a much more regular basis because there's still substantial improvements that I can notice and appreciate (improved displays, cameras, industrial design, etc). I don't think that's going to be the case with my Macs any longer. This will likely be the oldest computer I've ever had as primary when it gets replaced, and I think by a large margin. It's a strange place to be after decades of computing on the bleeding edge.

jwells89 2y ago
The iMac Pro, while very noticeably slower than my M1 series machines, is still respectable. Reasonably snappy, quiet, and of course the display is great. It still runs the current macOS, but I'm sure that's changing soon. When that happens I might downgrade mine to Mojave and use it as an offline-only "zen pod" machine for creative work.
encom 2y ago
This pattern isn't unique to Apple computers. I upgraded my 4th gen Intel machine to a 14th gen last years (mobo finally crapped out), and it's by far the most underwhelming upgrade I've ever done. Sure it's faster some of the time, but in general use (not compiling or encoding) it doesn't feel much different. I remember going from a 100MHz 486 to a 300MHz AMD K6 in my youth, and then to 900MHz Tbird. That was some upgrades you could feel!

bigtex 2y ago

My wife is still using a Macbook Pro from mid 2009 that was bought as a gift from my father. I have had to replace the hdd a few times, but it still works. The problem now is some SSL certs don't work properly anymore, but installing Brave as resolved that issue for now.

ttepasse 2y ago

I'm still using an iPhone 6s from 2015, with one battery replacement. Nominally I wanted to upgrade the last few years, at least since the 12 generation, but each time I couldn’t be bothered and found the prices rather high. Now I’m again in the weird timespan waiting for a September event and deciding afterwards. Thing is: Did I really miss out on the mobile ecosystem in the last years? There are apps, most of them run fine or fine-ish. The biggest problem are lazy developers using non native toolkits. Games, obviously are another problem, but I’m more of a puzzle gamer. The biggest advance was photography but since I couldn’t integrate photography in my life in the last 15 years I don’t think I will now. Whenever I look at newer iPhones, I don’t really feel huge FOMO. What are the mobile use cases to always upgrade to the newest one? (Maybe because I’m primary a Mac user and the iPhone is more of an appendix to that.)

ryandrake 2y ago
I'm in the same boat as you, with a 7. Every time I look at maybe replacing it, I see how expensive the newer ones still are, and I just can't justify it. I don't care about gaming performance or the camera, and those seem to be the only things that really get improved year after year.
fl0ki 2y ago
Sounds like you still have TouchID instead of FaceID. The pandemic was quite a wakeup call for this, with far more people wearing masks than gloves, people using FaceID were set back much more than people using TouchID. Then Apple just made FaceID work even with masks. Now TouchID is further behind by still not working with gloves, while FaceID works in more situations than ever before. When you don't need to authorize a sensitive operation, just unlock, a paired Apple Watch can also be configured to unlock the iPhone.

underseacables 2y ago

I just really like the convenience of the fingerprint reader.