6 ms·

I found one these all-in-one units out on sidewalk and thought I had scored a cool freebie. It was nearly new. Now I know why they threw it away. Total garbage

by ogou 2y ago

I found one these all-in-one units out on sidewalk and thought I had scored a cool freebie. It was nearly new. Now I know why they threw it away. Total garbage and bricked without that HP+ subscription. Can't use the scanner because the ink is too low. The worst part is that I couldn't even reset the printer to use a new subscription! It was tied to the previous owner at a hardware level and support said I had to contact them to release their account, even though it was no longer active. The HP support forums are full of angry people trying to get away from these units. Printers are still needed, btw. Maybe not in the USA, but Germany requires all kinds of paper documentation to be mailed. Many other countries as well.

qiine 2y ago
"bricked without that HP+ subscription. Can't use the scanner because the ink is too low. The worst part is that I couldn't even reset the printer to use a new subscription! It was tied to the previous owner at a hardware level and support said I had to contact them to release their account, even though it was no longer active." Nice everything is wrong beyond redemption, basically toxic eWaste that somehow manage to also waste your time as an added bonus... job well done !
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
4gotunameagain 2y ago
Your opinions about these devices are valid, but I highly doubt that any other country is so stuck to physical mail as is Germany. To the point that I wonder how it is still functioning. Only one country away: Denmark. You are provided with a state issued secure email address for all official communication. No paper. Minimal environmental impact. No looking through the 2013 brief to find a paper from the finanzamt.
- ahartmetz 2y ago
  > To the point I wonder how it is still functioning. It's a symptom of other dysfunction alright, but mail did and does work, so the superficial answer is: same as it always did? When I read about banking in the US involving checks and bills, I don't say "the system is collapsing", it's just... an aspect that sucks.
  - 4gotunameagain 2y ago
    Of course mail did and does work. Horses did work, and would still work if we still used them. But for an official service to necessitate a physical form lettered to them, that is simply unnecessary overhead for the individual, for society, and for the environment.
    - account42 2y ago
      I'd rather have to rely on physical mail than have to rely on a smartphone or other digital device for dealing with my government to be honest. Better to have the choice of course but if it would be only one then the former might be an inconvenience but the latter can turn into a real nightmare.
- ce4 2y ago
  I disagree, there are lots of other countries that have this. Japan recently got rid of floppies, for example[0]. Most of all, germany is full of doomsday thinking and complaints like this one, which i see often here when HN covers esp. german topics Edit: here's some proper example why paper is not all that bad to have, and actually beneficial in some cases (reverse engineering of Ticketmaster online-only tickets, bound to app)[1] [0]: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-declares-victory-effort-end-government-use-floppy-disks-2024-07-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-declares-vi... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40906148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40906148
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- throw092309 2y ago
  I am in EU country that has similar system, but it has some problems: - keeping verifiable trail for digital documents is difficult. You have to go to notary, and print verified copy at cost of 1$ per page. Old paper system just sends you hard verified copy for free. - there is a fiction of delivery for digital mail. - digital documents get deleted from mail box after 6 months. There is paid version that preserves them. There is no way to archive them outside of government servers, because signature trail expires. - good luck with using digital documents at the court, there are laws, but those are unenforceable. Your fancy digital doc may just get thrown out as a fake. - government owns all servers, and may just decide to delete some digital documents. In short new "digital" system is buggy, cumbersome, abd very expensive if you want safety and reliability. Cost of paper is negligible.
- account42 2y ago
  FWIW you can do your taxes online in Germany as well. That includes digital communications (even if they still send you a hardcopy).
MrSkelter 2y ago
America requires tons of paper. The uS banking system is appallingly primitive and any reasonably non mundane or international transaction requires in person visits and paperwork. Canon make very good printers with massive tanks and no online bullshit. Lasers are really only needed for super high volumes at this point. With megatank printers there is no real cost saving with a laser and they are much more limited. They don’t do good photos and the paper choices are restricted. Worse than that the prints themselves are less robust. Invest in a large tank printer from a solid non HO brand and it will last decades.
- AdamN 2y ago
  I'm a big fan of my b&w Brother laser printer even though I don't do big jobs. It always works, is fast, and cheap.
- joemaller1 2y ago
  The issue with inkjets isn’t running out of ink, it’s long stretches between prints resulting in clogged heads and terrible print quality. Usually followed by dozens a of minutes of cleaning, or a clogged not-empty cartridge that needs replacing anyway. After yet another clogged inkjet which might print again if I buy a full set of inks for more than the replacement cost of the printer, I’m shopping for a small laser printer.
- cubefox 2y ago
  For people who print very rarely and don't use them for photos, I would instead recommend a laser printer (black and white is enough for any official documents) because inkjet printers dry up after a while, which ruins their quality. Brother is quite good in the laser department.
- sgarland 2y ago
  Laser printers are great for the opposite problem as well – super low volume. Since there are no nozzles to clog, you don’t have to waste ink every time you print doing a cleaning cycle. As the sibling comment says, Brother B&W lasers are god-tier for their purpose. They’re cheap, they last forever, and they just work. I had one for well over a decade, until my wife finally convinced me we needed a color printer, because she needed to print hundreds of pages in color for a project. I got a Brother color laser, and so far, I love it. Toner replacement is going to suck, but at least it’s a rare occurrence. As to photos, it does a shockingly good job at the type you’d see in a brochure, report, etc. It’s not going to replace an actual photo printer, no, but I’ve never found a compelling reason to print photos at home anyway.
immibis 2y ago
In Germany, walk down the street to the print shop with a USB drive and give them about 10 cents per page.
- gwervc 2y ago
  Then walk one kilometer and cross the border to France and it's... 50 cents/page. So totally not viable of you have any significant printing to do.
  - MSFT_Edging 2y ago
    If that's not viable for you, then one of these HP+ printers probably isn't either, even without the subscription. You'd be buying a laser printer or some specialized photo printer.
- cubefox 2y ago
  It's significantly more than that.
  - denvrede 2y ago
    No it's not. https://www.dm.de/services/services-im-markt/fotoservice/copyshop-scanservice-50518 https://www.dm.de/services/services-im-markt/fotoservice/cop...
    - cubefox 2y ago
      That's a supermarket though where they hope you buy other stuff. Though already colored pages cost 55 cents. In dedicated print shops it usually will be significantly more expensive.
      - account42 2y ago
        Looked at one local print shop. It's 5 cents per page plus 1€ per order. Of course this is in an area with multiple competing print shops but your assertion is at least not true everywhere. While dm might hope you buy other stuff from them you definitely don't have to. If you are suggesting that their print service is a loss leader then please show some evidence backing that up.
kristopolous 2y ago
As if printing didn't suck enough already. There's plenty of innovation left. What about a built-in cutting, binding or folding mechanism? What about a built-in QR like binary converter for paper backing up of crucial files and some way to feed them back in through ADF scanning? What about a built-in filter to printer feature of email so things like orders get auto printed? Something that has heat transfer built-in for optional inkless printing? A flatbed that can do UV and IR scanning? Some kind of release mechanism that makes fixing a paper jam trivial? How about an API with MQTT so you can integrate it in a automated production pipeline much easier. What about moving beyond the box? Could there be a way to stack the feed vertically and print, also vertically, to conserve space? Printing as an industry could be blown open to innovation but I guess we can't have nice things
- vel0city 2y ago
  > What about a built-in cutting, binding or folding mechanism? You can get that on some really high end office copiers. It's mechanically complex though and takes up space. > What about a built-in QR like binary converter for paper backing up of crucial files and some way to feed them back in through ADF scanning? You can get massively more information density and reliability from optical media. > What about a built-in filter to printer feature of email so things like orders get auto printed? Already a feature of some printers > A flatbed that can do UV and IR scanning I can't imagine a consumer use for this, care to expand how this would be useful? > How about an API with MQTT so you can integrate it in a automated production pipeline much easier. There are already highly standardized printing APIs out there for network printers. If all you're really wanting is to put out text you can often just telnet to the raw port and start sending data.
  - kristopolous 2y ago
    Yes, you can scuttle and quash whatever. Almost every massively successful tech product can be given the same treatment from the IBM PC to Microsoft Windows to the iPhone. And there were plenty of people who clicked their heels saying "there's nothing new here!" when the iPod, YouTube or Instagram came out. I used to be among them. You can also "but wait, there's more" those products and go back and forth and say how different and unique they are. Nest, Ring, Roku, Kindle, Uber, Airbnb... It's a game. You either take a risk and make a splash with a consumer-friendly, consumer-form factor, consumer-priced version of something or you don't. There's no modern printer people love and nothing in one they can get at say, Best Buy, they couldn't get 20 years ago. They're all frustrating plastic things sitting in the corner. Making innovative, actually great printers people are excited about is a product opportunity. Brother is close, but they're the Zune. Nobody's iPhoned it.
generationP 2y ago
Windows has a scan app ( ms-windows-store://pdp/?ProductId=9wzdncrfj3pv ) that can commandeer a scanner connected via USB even if the scanner's own software doesn't let you. Not sure it works with every model, and it's not very rich in features, but I've successfully thrown it at two scanners that I couldn't get any use of otherwise.
- ptspts 2y ago
  The generic Linux scan app wasn't able to scan until I replaced the ink in a Canon device.
zamalek 2y ago
> It was tied to the previous owner at a hardware level and support said I had to contact them to release their account, even though it was no longer active. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a resale cost.
account42 2y ago
> Germany requires all kinds of paper documentation to be mailed. Less and less. And there are always print shops for the rare occasion you do need one. In any case, inkjet printers are crap if you only need to print something occasionally as you will end up using more ink to clean the clogged heads than to actually print stuff. I still have a printer (a Brother BW laser) but it has been months since I last used in and half a year since I last really needed something in print.

by ogou 2y ago

qiine 2y ago

"bricked without that HP+ subscription. Can't use the scanner because the ink is too low. The worst part is that I couldn't even reset the printer to use a new subscription! It was tied to the previous owner at a hardware level and support said I had to contact them to release their account, even though it was no longer active." Nice everything is wrong beyond redemption, basically toxic eWaste that somehow manage to also waste your time as an added bonus... job well done !

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

4gotunameagain 2y ago

Your opinions about these devices are valid, but I highly doubt that any other country is so stuck to physical mail as is Germany. To the point that I wonder how it is still functioning. Only one country away: Denmark. You are provided with a state issued secure email address for all official communication. No paper. Minimal environmental impact. No looking through the 2013 brief to find a paper from the finanzamt.

ahartmetz 2y ago
> To the point I wonder how it is still functioning. It's a symptom of other dysfunction alright, but mail did and does work, so the superficial answer is: same as it always did? When I read about banking in the US involving checks and bills, I don't say "the system is collapsing", it's just... an aspect that sucks.
- 4gotunameagain 2y ago
  Of course mail did and does work. Horses did work, and would still work if we still used them. But for an official service to necessitate a physical form lettered to them, that is simply unnecessary overhead for the individual, for society, and for the environment.
  - account42 2y ago
    I'd rather have to rely on physical mail than have to rely on a smartphone or other digital device for dealing with my government to be honest. Better to have the choice of course but if it would be only one then the former might be an inconvenience but the latter can turn into a real nightmare.
ce4 2y ago
I disagree, there are lots of other countries that have this. Japan recently got rid of floppies, for example[0]. Most of all, germany is full of doomsday thinking and complaints like this one, which i see often here when HN covers esp. german topics Edit: here's some proper example why paper is not all that bad to have, and actually beneficial in some cases (reverse engineering of Ticketmaster online-only tickets, bound to app)[1] [0]: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-declares-victory-effort-end-government-use-floppy-disks-2024-07-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-declares-vi... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40906148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40906148
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
throw092309 2y ago
I am in EU country that has similar system, but it has some problems: - keeping verifiable trail for digital documents is difficult. You have to go to notary, and print verified copy at cost of 1$ per page. Old paper system just sends you hard verified copy for free. - there is a fiction of delivery for digital mail. - digital documents get deleted from mail box after 6 months. There is paid version that preserves them. There is no way to archive them outside of government servers, because signature trail expires. - good luck with using digital documents at the court, there are laws, but those are unenforceable. Your fancy digital doc may just get thrown out as a fake. - government owns all servers, and may just decide to delete some digital documents. In short new "digital" system is buggy, cumbersome, abd very expensive if you want safety and reliability. Cost of paper is negligible.
account42 2y ago
FWIW you can do your taxes online in Germany as well. That includes digital communications (even if they still send you a hardcopy).

MrSkelter 2y ago

America requires tons of paper. The uS banking system is appallingly primitive and any reasonably non mundane or international transaction requires in person visits and paperwork. Canon make very good printers with massive tanks and no online bullshit. Lasers are really only needed for super high volumes at this point. With megatank printers there is no real cost saving with a laser and they are much more limited. They don’t do good photos and the paper choices are restricted. Worse than that the prints themselves are less robust. Invest in a large tank printer from a solid non HO brand and it will last decades.

AdamN 2y ago
I'm a big fan of my b&w Brother laser printer even though I don't do big jobs. It always works, is fast, and cheap.
joemaller1 2y ago
The issue with inkjets isn’t running out of ink, it’s long stretches between prints resulting in clogged heads and terrible print quality. Usually followed by dozens a of minutes of cleaning, or a clogged not-empty cartridge that needs replacing anyway. After yet another clogged inkjet which might print again if I buy a full set of inks for more than the replacement cost of the printer, I’m shopping for a small laser printer.
cubefox 2y ago
For people who print very rarely and don't use them for photos, I would instead recommend a laser printer (black and white is enough for any official documents) because inkjet printers dry up after a while, which ruins their quality. Brother is quite good in the laser department.
sgarland 2y ago
Laser printers are great for the opposite problem as well – super low volume. Since there are no nozzles to clog, you don’t have to waste ink every time you print doing a cleaning cycle. As the sibling comment says, Brother B&W lasers are god-tier for their purpose. They’re cheap, they last forever, and they just work. I had one for well over a decade, until my wife finally convinced me we needed a color printer, because she needed to print hundreds of pages in color for a project. I got a Brother color laser, and so far, I love it. Toner replacement is going to suck, but at least it’s a rare occurrence. As to photos, it does a shockingly good job at the type you’d see in a brochure, report, etc. It’s not going to replace an actual photo printer, no, but I’ve never found a compelling reason to print photos at home anyway.

immibis 2y ago

In Germany, walk down the street to the print shop with a USB drive and give them about 10 cents per page.

gwervc 2y ago
Then walk one kilometer and cross the border to France and it's... 50 cents/page. So totally not viable of you have any significant printing to do.
- MSFT_Edging 2y ago
  If that's not viable for you, then one of these HP+ printers probably isn't either, even without the subscription. You'd be buying a laser printer or some specialized photo printer.
cubefox 2y ago
It's significantly more than that.
- denvrede 2y ago
  No it's not. https://www.dm.de/services/services-im-markt/fotoservice/copyshop-scanservice-50518 https://www.dm.de/services/services-im-markt/fotoservice/cop...
  - cubefox 2y ago
    That's a supermarket though where they hope you buy other stuff. Though already colored pages cost 55 cents. In dedicated print shops it usually will be significantly more expensive.
    - account42 2y ago
      Looked at one local print shop. It's 5 cents per page plus 1€ per order. Of course this is in an area with multiple competing print shops but your assertion is at least not true everywhere. While dm might hope you buy other stuff from them you definitely don't have to. If you are suggesting that their print service is a loss leader then please show some evidence backing that up.

kristopolous 2y ago

As if printing didn't suck enough already. There's plenty of innovation left. What about a built-in cutting, binding or folding mechanism? What about a built-in QR like binary converter for paper backing up of crucial files and some way to feed them back in through ADF scanning? What about a built-in filter to printer feature of email so things like orders get auto printed? Something that has heat transfer built-in for optional inkless printing? A flatbed that can do UV and IR scanning? Some kind of release mechanism that makes fixing a paper jam trivial? How about an API with MQTT so you can integrate it in a automated production pipeline much easier. What about moving beyond the box? Could there be a way to stack the feed vertically and print, also vertically, to conserve space? Printing as an industry could be blown open to innovation but I guess we can't have nice things

vel0city 2y ago
> What about a built-in cutting, binding or folding mechanism? You can get that on some really high end office copiers. It's mechanically complex though and takes up space. > What about a built-in QR like binary converter for paper backing up of crucial files and some way to feed them back in through ADF scanning? You can get massively more information density and reliability from optical media. > What about a built-in filter to printer feature of email so things like orders get auto printed? Already a feature of some printers > A flatbed that can do UV and IR scanning I can't imagine a consumer use for this, care to expand how this would be useful? > How about an API with MQTT so you can integrate it in a automated production pipeline much easier. There are already highly standardized printing APIs out there for network printers. If all you're really wanting is to put out text you can often just telnet to the raw port and start sending data.
- kristopolous 2y ago
  Yes, you can scuttle and quash whatever. Almost every massively successful tech product can be given the same treatment from the IBM PC to Microsoft Windows to the iPhone. And there were plenty of people who clicked their heels saying "there's nothing new here!" when the iPod, YouTube or Instagram came out. I used to be among them. You can also "but wait, there's more" those products and go back and forth and say how different and unique they are. Nest, Ring, Roku, Kindle, Uber, Airbnb... It's a game. You either take a risk and make a splash with a consumer-friendly, consumer-form factor, consumer-priced version of something or you don't. There's no modern printer people love and nothing in one they can get at say, Best Buy, they couldn't get 20 years ago. They're all frustrating plastic things sitting in the corner. Making innovative, actually great printers people are excited about is a product opportunity. Brother is close, but they're the Zune. Nobody's iPhoned it.

generationP 2y ago

Windows has a scan app ( ms-windows-store://pdp/?ProductId=9wzdncrfj3pv ) that can commandeer a scanner connected via USB even if the scanner's own software doesn't let you. Not sure it works with every model, and it's not very rich in features, but I've successfully thrown it at two scanners that I couldn't get any use of otherwise.

ptspts 2y ago
The generic Linux scan app wasn't able to scan until I replaced the ink in a Canon device.

zamalek 2y ago

> It was tied to the previous owner at a hardware level and support said I had to contact them to release their account, even though it was no longer active. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a resale cost.

account42 2y ago

> Germany requires all kinds of paper documentation to be mailed. Less and less. And there are always print shops for the rare occasion you do need one. In any case, inkjet printers are crap if you only need to print something occasionally as you will end up using more ink to clean the clogged heads than to actually print stuff. I still have a printer (a Brother BW laser) but it has been months since I last used in and half a year since I last really needed something in print.