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> Did the American revolution happen before, during, or after the Enlightenment? I’ve no idea. When did the American revolution happen? Not everyone’s cultura

> Did the American revolution happen before, during, or after the Enlightenment? I’ve no idea. When did the American revolution happen? Not everyone’s cultural frame of reference is the same as yours. I can tell you when the Synod of Whitby happened, though.

mixmastamyk 2y ago
The American and French Revolutions are a pretty big deal on the road to modern democracy, as well as being tied to 1700s Enlightenment ideals. Everyone educated should know this.
- IshKebab 2y ago
  A pretty big deal in America. I don't think knowledge of the exact date of the American Revolution is a requirement for education outside America. At least no more than "17something...ish".
  - IIAOPSW 2y ago
    "17something...ish" is enough to answer (or at least make a high confidence guess at) the original question (was the American Revolution contemporary with the enlightenment?)
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    For that matter, a lot of historical dates we consider important are only important to us because A) we're westerners and B) we got them drilled into us by textbooks and classes. The remaining majority of the world (the west is a minority) sincerely couldn't care less about the American or French or Industrial Revolutions or Columbus (re)discovering America or the Hundred Years War or the Black Death or the Fall of Rome or whatever else. Kind of like how we as westerners generally couldn't care less about Asian, African, Middle Eastern, Indian, or Polynesian histories. The culture we grow up in and become indoctrinated by determines what is important and what is not. And just so we're clear, this bit of ignorance is perfectly fine: Life is short, ain't nobody got time for shit that happened to people you don't even know who lived somewhere you will never see.
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      Appeal to ignorance and anti-intellectualism, congrats.
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        Let me put it this way: Can you really blame someone for not knowing a historical fact that is completely irrelevant to their life, especially when they probably have more pressing concerns to learn and care about? We only have so many hours in a day and so many days in a lifetime, while knowledge is practically infinite.
        mixmastamyk 2y ago
        You could say that about anything. I limited my initial statement to educated folks, and presumably those who would like to be one. /history/democracy/milestones -> relatively important.
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        As very broad subjects? Yes. But any particular factoid about them is practically irrelevant for most people who don't actually have anything to do with that factoid. Hell, I would even go as far as to say the American Revolution is irrelevant even for most Americans because it has nothing of practical value. We (Americans) all know about it to varying degrees, but again that is due to growing up and being indoctrinated in it.
        mixmastamyk 2y ago
        "Nothing is important to know besides my lunch time..." yawn
        im3w1l 2y ago
        This is such a boring dismissal of a very interesting subject - what information is important to whom and why. A pretty important reason for learning about the history of democracy is to learn how and why to preserve it.
- Tainnor 2y ago
  Of course, they are important, but so are many other things - and speaking e.g. from a European POV, a lot of other events are simply much more salient and commonplace - and the same is probably even more true for other continents (would a random reasonably educated American or European person know when the Meiji restauration happened or when Latin America became independent?). You can't expect everyone to have memorised all the important dates.
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    America was a backwater at the time and therefore the best place to experiment with European enlightenment ideals. Which it did, and was a direct factor in the French Revolution. I also learned about numerous revolutions in Latin America from Mexico to Bolivar to San Martin over the early 1800s. The events that directly affect the modern world should be covered in school. I’d say revolutions that created large modern states would be among them.
    - Tainnor 2y ago
      Of course, we learn about the American Revolution in schools, but people aren't going to remember every date they were taught in schools. The founding of Rome or the Punic Wars are also hugely important for today's world, but not everyone can place them. The reason most US Americans probably can place the American Revolution is because I assume it's so often commememorated there. In Germany, people would be much more likely to remember the years 1933, 1949 and 1989, because of how often they're referenced.
    - kergonath 2y ago
      > I’d say revolutions that created large modern states would be among them. The Russian revolution as well. And the Chinese one. It’s quite difficult to make sense of the late 20th century (yes, I know) without them. Or the early 21th.
      - mixmastamyk 2y ago
        Agreed, and it doesn't mean memorizing a date as folks here keep mentioning. The nearest decade is fine in most cases.
- bowsamic 2y ago
  No one that I know of in Europe gets taught this
  - scbrg 2y ago
    Swede here. Both the American an the French revolution were taught when I went to school in the ninth and tenth decades of the twentieth century. As GP points out, they're both fairly significant events that had side effects relevant even to us up here. I would be extremely surprised if Sweden was unique among European nations in this regard.
  - kzrdude 2y ago
    Why not learn it anyway. Broader 'bildung' is a lifelong pursuit.
    - bowsamic 2y ago
      I’m from working class England and that’s absolutely not the culture for us. Education is considered superfluous unless it makes you money
      - kzrdude 2y ago
        Right, and I'm from a (partly) academic family. I guess it's a culture/class thing too.
  - dboreham 2y ago
    I grew up in Scotland. We studied American History in school. In fact we didn't study English History, except as it pertained to Scottish History, so to this day I'm hazy on Magna Carta, turbulent priests and so on.
    - bowsamic 2y ago
      I’m glad to be proven wrong. I’m English btw. We learnt nothing about America but we learnt everything about King Henry VIII
kelnos 2y ago
It's tiresome when people seem to think it's necessary to be annoyed that others make reference to their own cultural frame of reference in their writing. Even more tiresome when they feel the need to comment about it. Most people here, even non-Americans, likely have at least a rough idea of when the American Revolution was. And those who don't will either just gloss over it and think no more of it, or find the answer on the internet in a shorter amount of time than it took me to type this sentence. And then there are people like you. Look at the completely useless subthread you've spawned! Look at the time I've bothered to waste typing this out! Sigh.
- jcul 2y ago
  Also the author does give the year in the next paragraph. So no googling required. I also didn't know what the date of the American revolution was, but I understood it was just an example. > if you’re like me, you’ll find the question much easier to answer given the second version of the sentence, because you remember the American revolution as starting in 1776, not in the 76th year of the 18th century.
- Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
  Yes, that's entirely the point. The article is "Here's a thing I don't understand! Let's say how silly it is by comparing it to a thing I do understand." I mean, thanks for that. I could write an article about "Why do people insist on quoting the American revolution as a reference date when they could just say 'late 18th century'". Which would make the same point and get us precisely as far along as this article did. > Look at the time I've bothered to waste typing this out! I feel the same way, dude. I feel exactly the same.

mixmastamyk 2y ago

The American and French Revolutions are a pretty big deal on the road to modern democracy, as well as being tied to 1700s Enlightenment ideals. Everyone educated should know this.

IshKebab 2y ago
A pretty big deal in America. I don't think knowledge of the exact date of the American Revolution is a requirement for education outside America. At least no more than "17something...ish".
- IIAOPSW 2y ago
  "17something...ish" is enough to answer (or at least make a high confidence guess at) the original question (was the American Revolution contemporary with the enlightenment?)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  For that matter, a lot of historical dates we consider important are only important to us because A) we're westerners and B) we got them drilled into us by textbooks and classes. The remaining majority of the world (the west is a minority) sincerely couldn't care less about the American or French or Industrial Revolutions or Columbus (re)discovering America or the Hundred Years War or the Black Death or the Fall of Rome or whatever else. Kind of like how we as westerners generally couldn't care less about Asian, African, Middle Eastern, Indian, or Polynesian histories. The culture we grow up in and become indoctrinated by determines what is important and what is not. And just so we're clear, this bit of ignorance is perfectly fine: Life is short, ain't nobody got time for shit that happened to people you don't even know who lived somewhere you will never see.
  - mixmastamyk 2y ago
    Appeal to ignorance and anti-intellectualism, congrats.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      Let me put it this way: Can you really blame someone for not knowing a historical fact that is completely irrelevant to their life, especially when they probably have more pressing concerns to learn and care about? We only have so many hours in a day and so many days in a lifetime, while knowledge is practically infinite.
      - mixmastamyk 2y ago
        You could say that about anything. I limited my initial statement to educated folks, and presumably those who would like to be one. /history/democracy/milestones -> relatively important.
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        As very broad subjects? Yes. But any particular factoid about them is practically irrelevant for most people who don't actually have anything to do with that factoid. Hell, I would even go as far as to say the American Revolution is irrelevant even for most Americans because it has nothing of practical value. We (Americans) all know about it to varying degrees, but again that is due to growing up and being indoctrinated in it.
        mixmastamyk 2y ago
        "Nothing is important to know besides my lunch time..." yawn
        im3w1l 2y ago
        This is such a boring dismissal of a very interesting subject - what information is important to whom and why. A pretty important reason for learning about the history of democracy is to learn how and why to preserve it.
Tainnor 2y ago
Of course, they are important, but so are many other things - and speaking e.g. from a European POV, a lot of other events are simply much more salient and commonplace - and the same is probably even more true for other continents (would a random reasonably educated American or European person know when the Meiji restauration happened or when Latin America became independent?). You can't expect everyone to have memorised all the important dates.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  America was a backwater at the time and therefore the best place to experiment with European enlightenment ideals. Which it did, and was a direct factor in the French Revolution. I also learned about numerous revolutions in Latin America from Mexico to Bolivar to San Martin over the early 1800s. The events that directly affect the modern world should be covered in school. I’d say revolutions that created large modern states would be among them.
  - Tainnor 2y ago
    Of course, we learn about the American Revolution in schools, but people aren't going to remember every date they were taught in schools. The founding of Rome or the Punic Wars are also hugely important for today's world, but not everyone can place them. The reason most US Americans probably can place the American Revolution is because I assume it's so often commememorated there. In Germany, people would be much more likely to remember the years 1933, 1949 and 1989, because of how often they're referenced.
  - kergonath 2y ago
    > I’d say revolutions that created large modern states would be among them. The Russian revolution as well. And the Chinese one. It’s quite difficult to make sense of the late 20th century (yes, I know) without them. Or the early 21th.
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      Agreed, and it doesn't mean memorizing a date as folks here keep mentioning. The nearest decade is fine in most cases.
bowsamic 2y ago
No one that I know of in Europe gets taught this
- scbrg 2y ago
  Swede here. Both the American an the French revolution were taught when I went to school in the ninth and tenth decades of the twentieth century. As GP points out, they're both fairly significant events that had side effects relevant even to us up here. I would be extremely surprised if Sweden was unique among European nations in this regard.
- kzrdude 2y ago
  Why not learn it anyway. Broader 'bildung' is a lifelong pursuit.
  - bowsamic 2y ago
    I’m from working class England and that’s absolutely not the culture for us. Education is considered superfluous unless it makes you money
    - kzrdude 2y ago
      Right, and I'm from a (partly) academic family. I guess it's a culture/class thing too.
- dboreham 2y ago
  I grew up in Scotland. We studied American History in school. In fact we didn't study English History, except as it pertained to Scottish History, so to this day I'm hazy on Magna Carta, turbulent priests and so on.
  - bowsamic 2y ago
    I’m glad to be proven wrong. I’m English btw. We learnt nothing about America but we learnt everything about King Henry VIII

kelnos 2y ago

It's tiresome when people seem to think it's necessary to be annoyed that others make reference to their own cultural frame of reference in their writing. Even more tiresome when they feel the need to comment about it. Most people here, even non-Americans, likely have at least a rough idea of when the American Revolution was. And those who don't will either just gloss over it and think no more of it, or find the answer on the internet in a shorter amount of time than it took me to type this sentence. And then there are people like you. Look at the completely useless subthread you've spawned! Look at the time I've bothered to waste typing this out! Sigh.

jcul 2y ago
Also the author does give the year in the next paragraph. So no googling required. I also didn't know what the date of the American revolution was, but I understood it was just an example. > if you’re like me, you’ll find the question much easier to answer given the second version of the sentence, because you remember the American revolution as starting in 1776, not in the 76th year of the 18th century.
Doctor_Fegg 2y ago
Yes, that's entirely the point. The article is "Here's a thing I don't understand! Let's say how silly it is by comparing it to a thing I do understand." I mean, thanks for that. I could write an article about "Why do people insist on quoting the American revolution as a reference date when they could just say 'late 18th century'". Which would make the same point and get us precisely as far along as this article did. > Look at the time I've bothered to waste typing this out! I feel the same way, dude. I feel exactly the same.