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All of the quotes and interactions I had with the local solar installers were reminiscent of the used car lot if not outright fraud. I was able to do what was p

All of the quotes and interactions I had with the local solar installers were reminiscent of the used car lot if not outright fraud. I was able to do what was permissible myself and a regular licensed electrician did the rest. The equipment is UL listed. There was some learning curve but I found the diysolarforum.com to be a pretty good resource to learn what I didn't know. I ran the whole setup standalone for about 6 months before switching the house over to it. The only problem that happened was a loose battery cable connection which the BMS and inverter alerted to and handled correctly.

GaggiX 2y ago
What voltage are you running your solar strings at? I was wondering what would happen if the loose cable was a cable from the solar panels instead of the low voltage battery.
- duffpkg 2y ago
  The panel strings are at ~500v so there are safety, fusing and grounding considerations. Pretty common electrical equipment and cable is rated for use at 600v. There are special locking water resistant connectors for solar panels called MC4.
  - GaggiX 2y ago
    Are the hybrid inverters you are using be able to detect arc faults (in series) from the strings? Running 500V DC is probably by far the most dangerous thing in your setup, fortunately your solar panels are mounted on the groud.
- cyberax 2y ago
  If you want a DIY-friendly option, it's best to look towards DC optimizers. They are installed on each panel and they provide a steady 48V output. They also do MPPT tracking on the panel level, so you get the best possible performance if you have some shading. Unlike microinverters that are notoriously unreliable, DC optimizers so far have excellent long-term reliability.
  - nanomonkey 2y ago
    Are you suggesting using a DC Optimizer from your solar panels to charge 48V batteries directly? This would be interesting. It's the first I've heard of optimizers being used for anything other than prior to an inverter.
    - cyberax 2y ago
      You absolutely can do that. You still need a charging controller and a BMS, obviously. But you can avoid the AC round-tripping.
      - nanomonkey 2y ago
        Nice, the 48V batteries I have already have BMS's...any suggestion for a nominal 48V DC optimizer and charge controller?
        cyberax 2y ago
        Tigo is known to work. I've heard that SolarEdge DC Optimizers don't work without a SolarEdge inverter connected to them.
iamthemonster 2y ago
This approach may vary by country. Not a single sparky in Australia will sign off on someone else's solar/battery install.
- fouc 2y ago
  Isn't there a distinction between the house wiring and the solar/battery stuff? P.S. I've never heard of sparky being used as slang for an electrician, sounds very aussie.
  - selcuka 2y ago
    > P.S. I've never heard of sparky being used as slang for an electrician, sounds very aussie. When I moved into a new house in Australia I asked the real estate agent if I could extend the fence, and he said I'd need a cheapie to do that. I said ok but scratched my head as to why it needs to be cheap, only to find out later what he actually said was chippy, slang for a carpenter.
    - old_hat 2y ago
      Yeah, it's all fun and games until you're at Macca's and someone says, "Oi, can you pass me a chippy?" and they get real confused when you go find a carpenter.
      - fennecbutt 2y ago
        Maccas is nz, maccies is Aus
        selcuka 2y ago
        It's definitely Maccas in AU. Maccies must be a UK thing.
    - marcus_holmes 2y ago
      Chippies are also known as "wood butchers" apparently. Amused me ;)
grecy 2y ago
> All of the quotes and interactions I had with the local solar installers were reminiscent of the used car lot if not outright fraud. I had exactly the same experience. They absolutely would not tell me the actual system cost, only how much I would save on my current bill per month. It felt exactly like a car salesman only talking about monthly payments, and it was horrible.
- lazide 2y ago
  Yup. I’ve (US) also talked to a few local ones to just see if they had a couple panels I could buy off them for close to wholesale for a personal project - which if they were actually involved in installation would be trivial - and just got blank stares. They were clearly just doing lead generation for some other company they had no direct connection with, and didn’t even have any idea who to talk to that could even answer my question. I had way better luck just looking online and paying shipping, which is absurd given how they were presenting themselves. So not even as good as a used car salesman on an actual car lot, more like door to door used car salesman.
  - Workaccount2 2y ago
    These companies are the equivalent of people who received a free product to review and then post a referral link for it in the details. Of course, they glow about how amazing the product is and how you should drop everything and buy it.
- LorenPechtel 2y ago
  Yeah. Talked to a couple of solar companies. They were utterly focused on costs vs utility costs and very opaque about how that was being modeled. And it was based on the rules back then--which of course could not hold. Net metering is a huge subsidy that is already being walked back. The true value of solar or wind is the cost of the fuel it saves. Nothing more. Even if his numbers come true there's a big problem--bad weather could deplete your batteries. You want to turn to the electric company in that case? You are once again in the situation that the value is only the fuel.
m463 2y ago
I think solar credits works into things too. People trying to get a long-term revenue stream.

GaggiX 2y ago

What voltage are you running your solar strings at? I was wondering what would happen if the loose cable was a cable from the solar panels instead of the low voltage battery.

duffpkg 2y ago
The panel strings are at ~500v so there are safety, fusing and grounding considerations. Pretty common electrical equipment and cable is rated for use at 600v. There are special locking water resistant connectors for solar panels called MC4.
- GaggiX 2y ago
  Are the hybrid inverters you are using be able to detect arc faults (in series) from the strings? Running 500V DC is probably by far the most dangerous thing in your setup, fortunately your solar panels are mounted on the groud.
cyberax 2y ago
If you want a DIY-friendly option, it's best to look towards DC optimizers. They are installed on each panel and they provide a steady 48V output. They also do MPPT tracking on the panel level, so you get the best possible performance if you have some shading. Unlike microinverters that are notoriously unreliable, DC optimizers so far have excellent long-term reliability.
- nanomonkey 2y ago
  Are you suggesting using a DC Optimizer from your solar panels to charge 48V batteries directly? This would be interesting. It's the first I've heard of optimizers being used for anything other than prior to an inverter.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    You absolutely can do that. You still need a charging controller and a BMS, obviously. But you can avoid the AC round-tripping.
    - nanomonkey 2y ago
      Nice, the 48V batteries I have already have BMS's...any suggestion for a nominal 48V DC optimizer and charge controller?
      - cyberax 2y ago
        Tigo is known to work. I've heard that SolarEdge DC Optimizers don't work without a SolarEdge inverter connected to them.

iamthemonster 2y ago

This approach may vary by country. Not a single sparky in Australia will sign off on someone else's solar/battery install.

fouc 2y ago
Isn't there a distinction between the house wiring and the solar/battery stuff? P.S. I've never heard of sparky being used as slang for an electrician, sounds very aussie.
- selcuka 2y ago
  > P.S. I've never heard of sparky being used as slang for an electrician, sounds very aussie. When I moved into a new house in Australia I asked the real estate agent if I could extend the fence, and he said I'd need a cheapie to do that. I said ok but scratched my head as to why it needs to be cheap, only to find out later what he actually said was chippy, slang for a carpenter.
  - old_hat 2y ago
    Yeah, it's all fun and games until you're at Macca's and someone says, "Oi, can you pass me a chippy?" and they get real confused when you go find a carpenter.
    - fennecbutt 2y ago
      Maccas is nz, maccies is Aus
      - selcuka 2y ago
        It's definitely Maccas in AU. Maccies must be a UK thing.
  - marcus_holmes 2y ago
    Chippies are also known as "wood butchers" apparently. Amused me ;)

grecy 2y ago

> All of the quotes and interactions I had with the local solar installers were reminiscent of the used car lot if not outright fraud. I had exactly the same experience. They absolutely would not tell me the actual system cost, only how much I would save on my current bill per month. It felt exactly like a car salesman only talking about monthly payments, and it was horrible.

lazide 2y ago
Yup. I’ve (US) also talked to a few local ones to just see if they had a couple panels I could buy off them for close to wholesale for a personal project - which if they were actually involved in installation would be trivial - and just got blank stares. They were clearly just doing lead generation for some other company they had no direct connection with, and didn’t even have any idea who to talk to that could even answer my question. I had way better luck just looking online and paying shipping, which is absurd given how they were presenting themselves. So not even as good as a used car salesman on an actual car lot, more like door to door used car salesman.
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  These companies are the equivalent of people who received a free product to review and then post a referral link for it in the details. Of course, they glow about how amazing the product is and how you should drop everything and buy it.
LorenPechtel 2y ago
Yeah. Talked to a couple of solar companies. They were utterly focused on costs vs utility costs and very opaque about how that was being modeled. And it was based on the rules back then--which of course could not hold. Net metering is a huge subsidy that is already being walked back. The true value of solar or wind is the cost of the fuel it saves. Nothing more. Even if his numbers come true there's a big problem--bad weather could deplete your batteries. You want to turn to the electric company in that case? You are once again in the situation that the value is only the fuel.

m463 2y ago

I think solar credits works into things too. People trying to get a long-term revenue stream.