7 ms·

Nowadays, some riders use glucose monitoring devices during training with relation to how long it takes from ingesting and getting into blood. They are now mea

Nowadays, some riders use glucose monitoring devices during training with relation to how long it takes from ingesting and getting into blood. They are now measuring more and more things, and food is a crucial role. Glucose monitoring is banned during races, but I guess that is why you don't see some cyclist collapsing like as 15 years ago is because they understand their glucose levels. For sure, doping it's still a fear, but these guys cannot climb Galibier at that speed only with storoids/drugs, it's insane the effort that they did over the year.

deff 2y ago
That is indeed why you don´t see them collapsing and also why the finals are much longer nowadays. Riders train their guts to be able to eat up to 120g of carbs per hour, for the whole duration of the race.
- avs733 2y ago
  I am far FAR from the tour de france but I do train for and run ultramarathons. When I started the general guidance seemed to be about 200 calories (50g of carbs) per hour during training and races. I followed that or a little above for a long time, and constantly had problems both physically and cognitively near the end of races. It took about a year to get used to fueling heavier (for me...about 400 calories per hour or 100g). Lots of figuring out digestion and timing and sources and other factors. But once I got there it was transformative...I could push much harder for much longer without a deep bonk and recovery was faster. More importantly, my ability to think/plan/make decisions at the end of races was orders of magnitude better. I'd bet if you went to an aid station around 80 miles on a 100mile ultra marathon you could pretty reliably identify who had been on the 200cal end of the spectrum and who had been on the 400 + end.
  - davidw 2y ago
    Yeah, some of the modern nutrition stuff like gels work really well. I did a 115 mile road bike ride on Sunday and kept eating gels and... I'm not going to say I was super fresh or anything by the end of that, but I was still feeling pretty good.
    - prmoustache 2y ago
      There is usually a point where you can't get those gel inside. It is nice to mix with other stuff.
      - matsemann 2y ago
        After my longest ever bike ride, 300 km, I didn't touch a gel for years, heh. Got so sick of 3+ gels per hour for those ~8 hours.
        0_____0 2y ago
        I dropped gels pretty fast. Hard to get if you're not somewhere with sports stores, and expensive. These days I cram haribo and peanut butter M&Ms, although I think the latter are more useful for multiday things.
        matsemann 2y ago
        Yeah, I bought a huge bulk pack online, and then it was okay. But when you need a couple a week it quickly adds up in cost. Same with bars, which I sometimes prefer over gels for longer rides to not just have gels in my stomach. I've tried to bake some bars myself, or make some rice cakes from Velochef ( https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/desire-journal/velochef-henrik-orre-s-proteam-approved-cinnamon-rice-cakes https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/desire-journal/velochef-henrik-... ) instead.
        0_____0 2y ago
        Thanks for the recipe! Reminds me... A friend of mine made a megagel that was some kind of chocolate concoction that he carried in a 300ml soft flask. It had sugar, salts, caffeine, actually tasted great, and I believe was pretty cheap to make. I have to get the recipe from him. Edit: I did the math on that risotto cake recipe and it comes out to about 2500kcal for the batch, for me that comes out to calories for ~5-6 hours of riding.
        2y ago
  - WXLCKNO 2y ago
    At 250w average during a 5 hour ride I'm burning like 1000 calories per hour or something mething close. Glycogen reserves are 2000 calories from a quick Google search, so that's 3k calories I need to make up for or 600 per hour. I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff I'm missing but 400 definitely makes more sense than 200
    - nradov 2y ago
      What you're missing is fat metabolism. If you're metabolically healthy (which you must be if you can hold 250W for hours) then you can make up the difference by converting stored fat into glycogen.
      - matsemann 2y ago
        Yup, part of my long distance cycle training was somewhat getting "fat adapted".
      - WXLCKNO 2y ago
        Right! That was a big missing chunk :)
      - avs733 2y ago
        what is also missing is the ability to process calories in. 900-1000 calories might mean that in is optimal - but think about eating a full meal from mcdonalds every hour while massively extering yourself. Training your gut matters and I've never seen anything that suggests much beyond 400 calories per hour is possible during meaningful exertion.
  - notesinthefield 2y ago
    Since my first ultra, Ive been fascinated by the idea of adapting to increased fueling and have tried to apply periodization principles to how I eat. 23 miles into a 33 race, I completely stopped being able to process food at around 150-250 cals/hr (mostly carbs and some fats)
    - avs733 2y ago
      speaking from experience - I puked during a fair number of runs in the process of getting there. I mix calories in my hydration with gels just to try and get the balance right. Its not stable but its better after about 4 years of work. I have ound that if I don't do a good job of eating, what you describe happens about 6-10 miles AFTER I stopped caloric intake.
hinkley 2y ago
I haven't been a cyclist since about the time that the market of energy drinks first exploded. And at the time there were a number of articles that said that really all you need is Gatorade, that most of these new drinks were advertising more calories per liter, but Gatorade was already tested out on absorption rates and dialed in to the maximum calories per liter of water that the average human stomach can absorb. The tricky word there is average. If Tadej can absorb an extra 5 grams per liter, then you should give Tadej an extra five grams per liter. If Jonas can absorb 2 grams less per liter than the average then you should give him that serving. These race results come down to mere seconds per hundred miles, for cyclists that are averaging 20 miles an hour. Any 1% difference is going into the training regimen.
- ricw 2y ago
  that is outdated advice. for one, some people sweat more than others, the salt levels in the sweat is totally different too. this means that if you're really serious about sport or are doing endurance races (ie 2 hours+) you should really not just use gatorade, but something where the mix of salt/water is closer to whatever you're sweating. if i personally use gatorade for endurance exercise, i'll just cramp up after 90 minutes and not be able to ride normally. if i use a high salt mix instead, this isn't an issue whatsoever. I'm sure the exact same is true about food itself. remember that for the tour de france, last years time difference between the winner (Vingegaard) and the second (Pogadcar) was 8 minutes out of 82h 05' 42", aka only 0.16% faster overall. every single sub-percentage matters here. there are tons of products that cater to this. the one i've been using is https://www.precisionhydration.com/ https://www.precisionhydration.com/ which is cheaper and more tailored than gatorade (i have no affiliation to them).
  - 0_____0 2y ago
    I basically just add salt to Gatorade and cut it with extra sugar and malto. It's a couple extra steps but I train regularly enough that I make a concentrate (100ml=200kcal) that I put in bottle and dilute as needed.
    - 2y ago
brazzy 2y ago
> For sure, doping it's still a fear, but these guys cannot climb Galibier at that speed only with storoids/drugs, it's insane the effort that they did over the year. The way I heard it, the don't use doping to improve their performance. They use it so they can train longer and more intensely than they would be able to without it.
- nradov 2y ago
  That's part of it sure, but anything which improves oxygen transport like EPO or blood transfusions will absolutely improve climbing performance regardless of training quality. For anyone with good fitness the main limiting factor is amount of oxygen delivered to the muscles.

deff 2y ago

That is indeed why you don´t see them collapsing and also why the finals are much longer nowadays. Riders train their guts to be able to eat up to 120g of carbs per hour, for the whole duration of the race.

avs733 2y ago
I am far FAR from the tour de france but I do train for and run ultramarathons. When I started the general guidance seemed to be about 200 calories (50g of carbs) per hour during training and races. I followed that or a little above for a long time, and constantly had problems both physically and cognitively near the end of races. It took about a year to get used to fueling heavier (for me...about 400 calories per hour or 100g). Lots of figuring out digestion and timing and sources and other factors. But once I got there it was transformative...I could push much harder for much longer without a deep bonk and recovery was faster. More importantly, my ability to think/plan/make decisions at the end of races was orders of magnitude better. I'd bet if you went to an aid station around 80 miles on a 100mile ultra marathon you could pretty reliably identify who had been on the 200cal end of the spectrum and who had been on the 400 + end.
- davidw 2y ago
  Yeah, some of the modern nutrition stuff like gels work really well. I did a 115 mile road bike ride on Sunday and kept eating gels and... I'm not going to say I was super fresh or anything by the end of that, but I was still feeling pretty good.
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    There is usually a point where you can't get those gel inside. It is nice to mix with other stuff.
    - matsemann 2y ago
      After my longest ever bike ride, 300 km, I didn't touch a gel for years, heh. Got so sick of 3+ gels per hour for those ~8 hours.
      - 0_____0 2y ago
        I dropped gels pretty fast. Hard to get if you're not somewhere with sports stores, and expensive. These days I cram haribo and peanut butter M&Ms, although I think the latter are more useful for multiday things.
        matsemann 2y ago
        Yeah, I bought a huge bulk pack online, and then it was okay. But when you need a couple a week it quickly adds up in cost. Same with bars, which I sometimes prefer over gels for longer rides to not just have gels in my stomach. I've tried to bake some bars myself, or make some rice cakes from Velochef ( https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/desire-journal/velochef-henrik-orre-s-proteam-approved-cinnamon-rice-cakes https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/desire-journal/velochef-henrik-... ) instead.
        0_____0 2y ago
        Thanks for the recipe! Reminds me... A friend of mine made a megagel that was some kind of chocolate concoction that he carried in a 300ml soft flask. It had sugar, salts, caffeine, actually tasted great, and I believe was pretty cheap to make. I have to get the recipe from him. Edit: I did the math on that risotto cake recipe and it comes out to about 2500kcal for the batch, for me that comes out to calories for ~5-6 hours of riding.
      - 2y ago
- WXLCKNO 2y ago
  At 250w average during a 5 hour ride I'm burning like 1000 calories per hour or something mething close. Glycogen reserves are 2000 calories from a quick Google search, so that's 3k calories I need to make up for or 600 per hour. I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff I'm missing but 400 definitely makes more sense than 200
  - nradov 2y ago
    What you're missing is fat metabolism. If you're metabolically healthy (which you must be if you can hold 250W for hours) then you can make up the difference by converting stored fat into glycogen.
    - matsemann 2y ago
      Yup, part of my long distance cycle training was somewhat getting "fat adapted".
    - WXLCKNO 2y ago
      Right! That was a big missing chunk :)
    - avs733 2y ago
      what is also missing is the ability to process calories in. 900-1000 calories might mean that in is optimal - but think about eating a full meal from mcdonalds every hour while massively extering yourself. Training your gut matters and I've never seen anything that suggests much beyond 400 calories per hour is possible during meaningful exertion.
- notesinthefield 2y ago
  Since my first ultra, Ive been fascinated by the idea of adapting to increased fueling and have tried to apply periodization principles to how I eat. 23 miles into a 33 race, I completely stopped being able to process food at around 150-250 cals/hr (mostly carbs and some fats)
  - avs733 2y ago
    speaking from experience - I puked during a fair number of runs in the process of getting there. I mix calories in my hydration with gels just to try and get the balance right. Its not stable but its better after about 4 years of work. I have ound that if I don't do a good job of eating, what you describe happens about 6-10 miles AFTER I stopped caloric intake.

hinkley 2y ago

I haven't been a cyclist since about the time that the market of energy drinks first exploded. And at the time there were a number of articles that said that really all you need is Gatorade, that most of these new drinks were advertising more calories per liter, but Gatorade was already tested out on absorption rates and dialed in to the maximum calories per liter of water that the average human stomach can absorb. The tricky word there is average. If Tadej can absorb an extra 5 grams per liter, then you should give Tadej an extra five grams per liter. If Jonas can absorb 2 grams less per liter than the average then you should give him that serving. These race results come down to mere seconds per hundred miles, for cyclists that are averaging 20 miles an hour. Any 1% difference is going into the training regimen.

ricw 2y ago
that is outdated advice. for one, some people sweat more than others, the salt levels in the sweat is totally different too. this means that if you're really serious about sport or are doing endurance races (ie 2 hours+) you should really not just use gatorade, but something where the mix of salt/water is closer to whatever you're sweating. if i personally use gatorade for endurance exercise, i'll just cramp up after 90 minutes and not be able to ride normally. if i use a high salt mix instead, this isn't an issue whatsoever. I'm sure the exact same is true about food itself. remember that for the tour de france, last years time difference between the winner (Vingegaard) and the second (Pogadcar) was 8 minutes out of 82h 05' 42", aka only 0.16% faster overall. every single sub-percentage matters here. there are tons of products that cater to this. the one i've been using is https://www.precisionhydration.com/ https://www.precisionhydration.com/ which is cheaper and more tailored than gatorade (i have no affiliation to them).
- 0_____0 2y ago
  I basically just add salt to Gatorade and cut it with extra sugar and malto. It's a couple extra steps but I train regularly enough that I make a concentrate (100ml=200kcal) that I put in bottle and dilute as needed.
  - 2y ago

brazzy 2y ago

> For sure, doping it's still a fear, but these guys cannot climb Galibier at that speed only with storoids/drugs, it's insane the effort that they did over the year. The way I heard it, the don't use doping to improve their performance. They use it so they can train longer and more intensely than they would be able to without it.

nradov 2y ago
That's part of it sure, but anything which improves oxygen transport like EPO or blood transfusions will absolutely improve climbing performance regardless of training quality. For anyone with good fitness the main limiting factor is amount of oxygen delivered to the muscles.