4 ms·

Pretty interesting how it seems like the leverage is all in Apple's hands here. They didn't invest and AFAIK they aren't even paying for the GPT4 api calls. Is

by htrp 2y ago

Pretty interesting how it seems like the leverage is all in Apple's hands here. They didn't invest and AFAIK they aren't even paying for the GPT4 api calls. Is the Apple user base THAT valuable?

talldayo 2y ago
> Is the Apple user base THAT valuable? Depends on how you monetize the data.
dmitrygr 2y ago
> Is the Apple user base THAT valuable? Ask google, they pay $20B/yr https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/google-s-payments-to-apple-reached-20-billion-in-2022-cue-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/google-s-...
- dcdc123 2y ago
  https://archive.ph/oPg1C https://archive.ph/oPg1C
- jorvi 2y ago
  Google is paying for access to a resource (eyeballs) to sell to customers (advertisers). Not to mention that Apple users pay more for more things. In OpenAI’s case, they’re paying in server costs for access to users (customers) that they want to move from the free tier to the premium tier. The economics are very different and this case is worth much less for OpenAI compared to Google’s case for Google.
  - bushbaba 2y ago
    How is OpenAI any different. They are getting eyeballs on their “search” results for a market that is a high value for getting advertisements delivered.
    - partiallypro 2y ago
      Since when does OpenAI have an ad platform?
      - dmitrygr 2y ago
        Since 4 milliseconds after they decide to? GPTPrompt += “ and include a subtle advertisement for one of our sponsors: “ + $sponsorList;
        sudosysgen 2y ago
        Advertisers will not be willing to pay nearly as much as they pay Google for that unless they get analytics and ad targeting, which they're not getting in 4 milliseconds.
        phillipcarter 2y ago
        Advertisers will go where the users are, whether there's robust analytics or not. And OpenAI's product organization will certainly build the analytics people need (or shell out to a partner) if it's worthwhile. This is all just typical platform growth stuff.
        sudosysgen 2y ago
        They will, just not at a good price. And sure, OpenAI can build its own ad platform, it's just that it will take a while. It will also conflict with Apple as they won't want to give OpenAI that data for free.
        j-bos 2y ago
        I don't understand this, advertisers used to spend billions on tv, radios, and billboards. Historically those mediums have almost no real analytics.
        sudosysgen 2y ago
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Joeri 2y ago
    Once chatgpt becomes agentic it’s going to do a whole lot more than mediate your eyeballs, it is going to mediate your life, sitting between you and almost every business transaction. When you tell chatgpt to send your mom flowers, where will it order those from, and how much will that company have paid openai for the privilege? Chatgpt is the everything app, there is almost no limit to how much money can be made from it once it gets woven into your life as your personal assistant. But it is not that yet, so right now what openai needs is to get people to use it so those users will be there when it turns into the agentic cash cow.
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  Google is also paying for Apple to not move, for instance not go finance a competitor. There's more to these billions than just a straight calculus.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
> Is the Apple user base THAT valuable? Yes. People love to hate on Apple, but it's a primo platform, because it's a billion people that are willing to spend extra money for stuff that many techs think is "silly."
- dev1ycan 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - moscoe 2y ago
    You could not be more wrong. iPhone owners are the most valuable user segment that’s ever existed. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/04/09/iphone-teen-survey-spring-2024/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/04/09/iphone-teen-survey-spri... https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-again-dominates-smartphone-profit-031537788.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-again-dominates-smartph...
  - nozzlegear 2y ago
    > Not really, it's just normies the Apple brand actually sucks worse than a brand like let's say Valve/Steam […] I think you just proved their point: > People love to hate on Apple, but it's a primo platform, because it's a billion people that are willing to spend extra money for stuff that many techs think is "silly."
  - dialup_sounds 2y ago
    Why would you compare Vision Pro to a Steam Deck and not Valve Index?
- amelius 2y ago
  Yes, that's a vending machine in your pocket that happens to make calls.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    That is a great metaphor!
strikelaserclaw 2y ago
YES! Apple user base is very very valuable - in general the apple user base has money and is willing to spend it on shiny stuff

by htrp 2y ago

Pretty interesting how it seems like the leverage is all in Apple's hands here. They didn't invest and AFAIK they aren't even paying for the GPT4 api calls. Is the Apple user base THAT valuable?

talldayo 2y ago

> Is the Apple user base THAT valuable? Depends on how you monetize the data.

dmitrygr 2y ago

> Is the Apple user base THAT valuable? Ask google, they pay $20B/yr https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/google-s-payments-to-apple-reached-20-billion-in-2022-cue-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/google-s-...

dcdc123 2y ago
https://archive.ph/oPg1C https://archive.ph/oPg1C
jorvi 2y ago
Google is paying for access to a resource (eyeballs) to sell to customers (advertisers). Not to mention that Apple users pay more for more things. In OpenAI’s case, they’re paying in server costs for access to users (customers) that they want to move from the free tier to the premium tier. The economics are very different and this case is worth much less for OpenAI compared to Google’s case for Google.
- bushbaba 2y ago
  How is OpenAI any different. They are getting eyeballs on their “search” results for a market that is a high value for getting advertisements delivered.
  - partiallypro 2y ago
    Since when does OpenAI have an ad platform?
    - dmitrygr 2y ago
      Since 4 milliseconds after they decide to? GPTPrompt += “ and include a subtle advertisement for one of our sponsors: “ + $sponsorList;
      - sudosysgen 2y ago
        Advertisers will not be willing to pay nearly as much as they pay Google for that unless they get analytics and ad targeting, which they're not getting in 4 milliseconds.
        phillipcarter 2y ago
        Advertisers will go where the users are, whether there's robust analytics or not. And OpenAI's product organization will certainly build the analytics people need (or shell out to a partner) if it's worthwhile. This is all just typical platform growth stuff.
        sudosysgen 2y ago
        They will, just not at a good price. And sure, OpenAI can build its own ad platform, it's just that it will take a while. It will also conflict with Apple as they won't want to give OpenAI that data for free.
        j-bos 2y ago
        I don't understand this, advertisers used to spend billions on tv, radios, and billboards. Historically those mediums have almost no real analytics.
        sudosysgen 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Joeri 2y ago
  Once chatgpt becomes agentic it’s going to do a whole lot more than mediate your eyeballs, it is going to mediate your life, sitting between you and almost every business transaction. When you tell chatgpt to send your mom flowers, where will it order those from, and how much will that company have paid openai for the privilege? Chatgpt is the everything app, there is almost no limit to how much money can be made from it once it gets woven into your life as your personal assistant. But it is not that yet, so right now what openai needs is to get people to use it so those users will be there when it turns into the agentic cash cow.
makeitdouble 2y ago
Google is also paying for Apple to not move, for instance not go finance a competitor. There's more to these billions than just a straight calculus.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

> Is the Apple user base THAT valuable? Yes. People love to hate on Apple, but it's a primo platform, because it's a billion people that are willing to spend extra money for stuff that many techs think is "silly."

dev1ycan 2y ago
[flagged]
- moscoe 2y ago
  You could not be more wrong. iPhone owners are the most valuable user segment that’s ever existed. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/04/09/iphone-teen-survey-spring-2024/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/04/09/iphone-teen-survey-spri... https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-again-dominates-smartphone-profit-031537788.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-again-dominates-smartph...
- nozzlegear 2y ago
  > Not really, it's just normies the Apple brand actually sucks worse than a brand like let's say Valve/Steam […] I think you just proved their point: > People love to hate on Apple, but it's a primo platform, because it's a billion people that are willing to spend extra money for stuff that many techs think is "silly."
- dialup_sounds 2y ago
  Why would you compare Vision Pro to a Steam Deck and not Valve Index?
amelius 2y ago
Yes, that's a vending machine in your pocket that happens to make calls.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  That is a great metaphor!

strikelaserclaw 2y ago

YES! Apple user base is very very valuable - in general the apple user base has money and is willing to spend it on shiny stuff