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When I first discovered Next.js, it was like finding a gold-mine. I no longer had to use an express server and couple that with React and manage all the crazy c

When I first discovered Next.js, it was like finding a gold-mine. I no longer had to use an express server and couple that with React and manage all the crazy configs. Next.js was so simple, everything just worked! The docs were absolutely amazing, dev server was super fast, the build times were fast, I could easily create server side and static sites, host them on Vercel easily, good times all around. Then came the Vercel + React partnership and it took things in a different direction. Now React almost became a child of Vercel. All of a sudden, the focus instantly shifted to server side from what was earlier client side & server side both. Breaking changes, added complexity and the strange co-existence of 2 routers, out of which the old one (which works perfectly fine btw) is certainly set to become obsolete in the near future leaving us with no choice but to move to this 'new' router. Next.js app router is extremely slow. You don't even need to do anything special, just compare the dev server compile times of Next.js v12 vs v14, the performance has decreased. The dev server sometimes occupies gigabytes of memory, why? Can I also mention the 'new' but worse file-based routing system that forces every page to be named page.tsx? Who thought that was a good idea? They simply copied Sveltekit. This even forced the VSCode team to introduce a way to edit the tab names because every page being called page.tsx is undoubtedly worse DX! All good things come to an end, and I certainly feel this way now with Next.js. I was a proponent, I recommended it to everybody who was looking to build apps with React but now? I'm not so sure anymore, considering how confused they are about their own decisions (refer to the v14's caching controversy). I'll be jumping ship to a better product as soon as I find one (and I'm sure there will be in the future). For now, I'm just sticking because of the years of familiarity with React.js and Next.js. They have served me well but Next.js has simply become Outdated.js as far as the future is concerned.

_andrei_ 2y ago
Been working with React for the past 9 years and I hate what Vercel's influence has done to it. I hate what they've done to Next as well, but at least that one is theirs.
- mococa 2y ago
  I have the same feeling, Vercel is destroying React.
- 0xblinq 2y ago
  It’s a very shady company, and despite what it looks like, they’re more a marketing company than a tech one. I’m glad I noticed this early and stopped using Next on time. For me the thing that made me realize this was their “hiding” (for as much as they can) and making it more difficult than intended of the call home metrics system in next. They refuse to add a setting to turn that off, and instead want you to set an env variable or run a npm command. Just think about they do this and refuse to add a setting. That’s how you know who you’re dealing with.
makerdiety 2y ago
What was wrong with Express.js? No, what is wrong with it right now? Because all I see is Next.js just being a wrapper for what Express.js does. Also, Next.js is becoming like Angular: The progress from Angular.js 1 to Angular 18 was necessary for solving the problem of very hard front-end web development. So I'm guessing this Next.js contender is trying to become the Angular of the back-end. They're basically turning into the theoretical computer science constructs that they must become. Script kiddies and non-computer science students need not apply.
- jstummbillig 2y ago
  Something something Dropbox
  - makerdiety 2y ago
    That Dropbox thing is just a meme which I don't understand. I'm not "in" on the joke, if you will. I don't see how the Dropbox meme is relevant here.
    - jstummbillig 2y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 A part of HN history, if you will, making light fun of the "it's just a wrapper" idea that transitions into a multi billion dollar company, because only naively is execution and the integration of different ideas a trivial task. The people at NextJS are obviously(?) doing something that's not just Express and you can look at the version history if you are interested in identifying those things. Of course, you might not think of them as important. But that's a very different take.
- NayamAmarshe 2y ago
  > What was wrong with Express.js? Setting it up was a hassle and so was hosting it. It's a great tool, don't get me wrong but after using Next.js, I never needed it. There's also Hono (https://hono.dev https://hono.dev) now, which is like Express.js but better.
Aeolun 2y ago
There’s https://vike.dev/ https://vike.dev/ though that still feels a bit rough to me compared to Next.
- rgbrgb 2y ago
  This looks nice, first time I’m seeing it. Just curious, what feels rough?
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    Just the way everything hangs together. It works, but some things are in the code, but not the docs, mentioned on the site, but the init tool they refer has no facility for it, so you need to connect it yourself.
nextaccountic 2y ago
What about SvelteKit?
- NayamAmarshe 2y ago
  I'm not a fan of Svelte's cryptic syntax and constant changes. They started with something simple, which is why I decided to build upscayl.org's simple website with SvelteKit but now it's simply too much of a hassle when I compare it with Next.js. They changed their whole state management system. It's like using a totally new framework now and it looks very much like React which is strange because Svelte was supposed to not be like React and offer simplicity in code. I think the best contender right now Solid.js but it needs some financial help and the fanciness of Next.js to attract a larger developer base.
  - doctor_eval 2y ago
    Are you talking about svelte 5? (Serious question)
    - NayamAmarshe 2y ago
      Yes, the one with runes.
      - satvikpendem 2y ago
        Yep, Svelte 5 with Runes was so much like React that I literally asked how it was any different when their announcement first came out [0]. Evan You, the creator of Vue, also noted its similarities to Vue [1]. They kind of answered the question but when actually working with Svelte 5, it simply feels like a reskin of React. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37584224#37584877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37584224#37584877 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37584224#37592471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37584224#37592471
      - doctor_eval 2y ago
        Yeah I was a huge fan of Svelte 4. I haven’t used react at all, but I took one look at svelte 5 and I just felt sad. I’ve gone back to Vue for now.
tommy_axle 2y ago
Next.js jumped the shark with the app router. The page router, though it wasn't perfect, was a nice fit and was an extension of the React way (at the time) by handling the client-side well. You got routing and some ability to execute certain things on the server-side plus basic api support. For everything else you could use a full express backend or even other backend languages/stacks. But like with many things, simplicity could not be appreciated and now you have this mess. It's time for a better alternative.
- 0xblinq 2y ago
  I think Inertia.js is the answer to this. It’s just some “glue” to make React/Vue/Svelte play nice (as the views) for any of the battle proven frameworks like Laravel, Django, Rails… or Adonis if you want to stay in node for the backend
the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
> The dev server sometimes occupies gigabytes of memory, why? My strong suspicion is async locals. I found some references to next related async locals hanging on timers recently: https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2024/6/5/node-timeout/ https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2024/6/5/node-timeout/
jc_811 2y ago
Join us on the Vue side! Using Vue and Nuxt (if you need SSR) has been an absolute joy to work with in my experience
- quietdev 2y ago
  I want to like Vue but the combination of buggy language tools and a buggy metaframework left a bad taste in my mouth. It's not surprising either when you look at the code quality.
- NayamAmarshe 2y ago
  I've always admired Nuxt because it's always been the one to introduce amazing features that Next has always copied but I never gave it a try. Maybe it's time.
- 0xblinq 2y ago
  It’s not like they didn’t break everyone as well…
  - NayamAmarshe 2y ago
    They did?
    - 0xblinq 2y ago
      Vue2/vue3 ? I know of several companies that haven’t been able to update yet, and some probably won’t ever. A company I workerd for has a large nuxt app they won’t be to upgrade any time soon.

_andrei_ 2y ago

Been working with React for the past 9 years and I hate what Vercel's influence has done to it. I hate what they've done to Next as well, but at least that one is theirs.

mococa 2y ago
I have the same feeling, Vercel is destroying React.
0xblinq 2y ago
It’s a very shady company, and despite what it looks like, they’re more a marketing company than a tech one. I’m glad I noticed this early and stopped using Next on time. For me the thing that made me realize this was their “hiding” (for as much as they can) and making it more difficult than intended of the call home metrics system in next. They refuse to add a setting to turn that off, and instead want you to set an env variable or run a npm command. Just think about they do this and refuse to add a setting. That’s how you know who you’re dealing with.

makerdiety 2y ago

What was wrong with Express.js? No, what is wrong with it right now? Because all I see is Next.js just being a wrapper for what Express.js does. Also, Next.js is becoming like Angular: The progress from Angular.js 1 to Angular 18 was necessary for solving the problem of very hard front-end web development. So I'm guessing this Next.js contender is trying to become the Angular of the back-end. They're basically turning into the theoretical computer science constructs that they must become. Script kiddies and non-computer science students need not apply.

jstummbillig 2y ago
Something something Dropbox
- makerdiety 2y ago
  That Dropbox thing is just a meme which I don't understand. I'm not "in" on the joke, if you will. I don't see how the Dropbox meme is relevant here.
  - jstummbillig 2y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 A part of HN history, if you will, making light fun of the "it's just a wrapper" idea that transitions into a multi billion dollar company, because only naively is execution and the integration of different ideas a trivial task. The people at NextJS are obviously(?) doing something that's not just Express and you can look at the version history if you are interested in identifying those things. Of course, you might not think of them as important. But that's a very different take.
NayamAmarshe 2y ago
> What was wrong with Express.js? Setting it up was a hassle and so was hosting it. It's a great tool, don't get me wrong but after using Next.js, I never needed it. There's also Hono (https://hono.dev https://hono.dev) now, which is like Express.js but better.

Aeolun 2y ago

There’s https://vike.dev/ https://vike.dev/ though that still feels a bit rough to me compared to Next.

rgbrgb 2y ago
This looks nice, first time I’m seeing it. Just curious, what feels rough?
- Aeolun 2y ago
  Just the way everything hangs together. It works, but some things are in the code, but not the docs, mentioned on the site, but the init tool they refer has no facility for it, so you need to connect it yourself.

nextaccountic 2y ago

What about SvelteKit?

NayamAmarshe 2y ago
I'm not a fan of Svelte's cryptic syntax and constant changes. They started with something simple, which is why I decided to build upscayl.org's simple website with SvelteKit but now it's simply too much of a hassle when I compare it with Next.js. They changed their whole state management system. It's like using a totally new framework now and it looks very much like React which is strange because Svelte was supposed to not be like React and offer simplicity in code. I think the best contender right now Solid.js but it needs some financial help and the fanciness of Next.js to attract a larger developer base.
- doctor_eval 2y ago
  Are you talking about svelte 5? (Serious question)
  - NayamAmarshe 2y ago
    Yes, the one with runes.
    - satvikpendem 2y ago
      Yep, Svelte 5 with Runes was so much like React that I literally asked how it was any different when their announcement first came out [0]. Evan You, the creator of Vue, also noted its similarities to Vue [1]. They kind of answered the question but when actually working with Svelte 5, it simply feels like a reskin of React. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37584224#37584877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37584224#37584877 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37584224#37592471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37584224#37592471
    - doctor_eval 2y ago
      Yeah I was a huge fan of Svelte 4. I haven’t used react at all, but I took one look at svelte 5 and I just felt sad. I’ve gone back to Vue for now.

tommy_axle 2y ago

Next.js jumped the shark with the app router. The page router, though it wasn't perfect, was a nice fit and was an extension of the React way (at the time) by handling the client-side well. You got routing and some ability to execute certain things on the server-side plus basic api support. For everything else you could use a full express backend or even other backend languages/stacks. But like with many things, simplicity could not be appreciated and now you have this mess. It's time for a better alternative.

0xblinq 2y ago
I think Inertia.js is the answer to this. It’s just some “glue” to make React/Vue/Svelte play nice (as the views) for any of the battle proven frameworks like Laravel, Django, Rails… or Adonis if you want to stay in node for the backend

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago

> The dev server sometimes occupies gigabytes of memory, why? My strong suspicion is async locals. I found some references to next related async locals hanging on timers recently: https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2024/6/5/node-timeout/ https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2024/6/5/node-timeout/

jc_811 2y ago

Join us on the Vue side! Using Vue and Nuxt (if you need SSR) has been an absolute joy to work with in my experience

quietdev 2y ago
I want to like Vue but the combination of buggy language tools and a buggy metaframework left a bad taste in my mouth. It's not surprising either when you look at the code quality.
NayamAmarshe 2y ago
I've always admired Nuxt because it's always been the one to introduce amazing features that Next has always copied but I never gave it a try. Maybe it's time.
0xblinq 2y ago
It’s not like they didn’t break everyone as well…
- NayamAmarshe 2y ago
  They did?
  - 0xblinq 2y ago
    Vue2/vue3 ? I know of several companies that haven’t been able to update yet, and some probably won’t ever. A company I workerd for has a large nuxt app they won’t be to upgrade any time soon.