5 ms·

That's a very good range within Europe. For America it's too short, as the USA is about 5000 km coast to coast.

api 2y ago
That's only partially true if you are West of the Mississippi. When I fly in and out of Cincinnati (where I live) I very often get routed through Chicago, which is under 300 miles away. This thing could make the trip three times between each recharge. Cincinnati to New York is under 600 miles, still within this aircraft's range with lots of safety margin. New York to Miami is a little over 1000 miles, which is probably too far with safety margin but close. That's a hugely popular route. The big elephant in the room in terms of energy is that we have no energy problem. None. Zero. Free energy rains from the sky all day long and we have loads of wind, hydro, and nuclear power too. What we have is an energy storage problem. Fossil fuels are so popular because they are conveniently stored dispatchable energy, not because they are just "energy." If batteries get good enough we are done.
- financetechbro 2y ago
  Good thing no one ever travels between the east coast and west coast
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    What a shame we have to retire every other plane when this one is adopted.
    - xattt 2y ago
      Even if this was the case, this is a (somewhat) solved problem. Look at how Formula E deals with limited range.
- mwcampbell 2y ago
  > The big elephant in the room in terms of energy is that we have no energy problem. None. Zero. [...] If batteries get good enough we are done. But if batteries do get good enough, then we'll just use and waste more energy, and then we'll run out again, right? It's like how software bloat expands to match the available hardware resources. So maybe it's better to act as if things are scarce even if they're not.
grecy 2y ago
Not every flight needs to cross the entire continent, just like not every drive requires a vehicle that gets 1000+ miles of range. I'd bet the very vast majority of private flights in North America are less than 1200 miles.
tw04 2y ago
But very, very few of the overall flights in the US are coast to coast non-stop. The average regional flight length (which is what something like this is targeting) in the US is 510 miles (~820 km)[1]. Overall average length of flight 941 miles (~1514 km)[2]: 1. https://www.statista.com/statistics/742763/regional-carriers-average-passenger-trip-length/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/742763/regional-carriers... 2. https://www.bts.gov/content/average-length-haul-domestic-freight-and-passenger-modes-miles https://www.bts.gov/content/average-length-haul-domestic-fre...
melling 2y ago
What about everywhere else? NYC - Philly 92 miles NYC - DC 225 miles NYC - Boston 215 miles NYC - Portland, ME 325 miles NYC - Pittsburgh 380 miles NYC - Cleveland 470 miles Cleveland - Chicago 350 miles St. Louis - Chicago 320 miles Houston - Dallas 240 miles Houston - Austin 170 miles Dallas - Austin 200 miles Seattle - Portland 175 miles Las Vegas - Los Angeles 280 miles Las Vegas - San Francisco 600 miles Las Vegas - San Diego 350 miles
- jimbobthrowawy 2y ago
  You need to have about 50% more range than just the distance between airports (really, enough for two failed landings and a diversion to your most distant alternate) for the sake of having a safety margin, but I see what you're getting at.
  - melling 2y ago
    Sounds reasonable. I removed the 7 that were over 600 miles. Here are 7 more: Boston - Pittsburgh 600 miles Boston - Philadelphia 310 miles Boston - Portland, ME 120 miles Boston - Montreal 310 miles Boston - DC 400 miles Chicago - Nashville 475 miles Atlanta - Nashville 250 miles
- qbxk 2y ago
  forget all these big-city connections. all the regional airports that are a 30m flight from these hubs will eat this kind of service right up. here in burlington, vt all our flights basically go through NYC anyhow, so a regular electric service from here to get to the big planes would be a huge win. there's plenty of airports like ours
CalRobert 2y ago
LA to SF is one of the busiest air routes in the country.
squarefoot 2y ago
It depends on how easy is to make batteries quick to swap. No need for ultra fast charging, they could just use a spare battery pack then the discharged one would go to the next plane after charging. If they find a way to say open a hatch and have the giant battery pack slide out to be replaced by a already fully recharged spare one, the stop could be as quick as changing horses to a carriage.
- nasmorn 2y ago
  Doesn’t CATL already build 5C batteries? Then fast charging is really enough
  - squarefoot 2y ago
    Also possible, if that doesn't impact their life cycle significantly.

api 2y ago

That's only partially true if you are West of the Mississippi. When I fly in and out of Cincinnati (where I live) I very often get routed through Chicago, which is under 300 miles away. This thing could make the trip three times between each recharge. Cincinnati to New York is under 600 miles, still within this aircraft's range with lots of safety margin. New York to Miami is a little over 1000 miles, which is probably too far with safety margin but close. That's a hugely popular route. The big elephant in the room in terms of energy is that we have no energy problem. None. Zero. Free energy rains from the sky all day long and we have loads of wind, hydro, and nuclear power too. What we have is an energy storage problem. Fossil fuels are so popular because they are conveniently stored dispatchable energy, not because they are just "energy." If batteries get good enough we are done.

financetechbro 2y ago
Good thing no one ever travels between the east coast and west coast
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  What a shame we have to retire every other plane when this one is adopted.
  - xattt 2y ago
    Even if this was the case, this is a (somewhat) solved problem. Look at how Formula E deals with limited range.
mwcampbell 2y ago
> The big elephant in the room in terms of energy is that we have no energy problem. None. Zero. [...] If batteries get good enough we are done. But if batteries do get good enough, then we'll just use and waste more energy, and then we'll run out again, right? It's like how software bloat expands to match the available hardware resources. So maybe it's better to act as if things are scarce even if they're not.

grecy 2y ago

Not every flight needs to cross the entire continent, just like not every drive requires a vehicle that gets 1000+ miles of range. I'd bet the very vast majority of private flights in North America are less than 1200 miles.

tw04 2y ago

But very, very few of the overall flights in the US are coast to coast non-stop. The average regional flight length (which is what something like this is targeting) in the US is 510 miles (~820 km)[1]. Overall average length of flight 941 miles (~1514 km)[2]: 1. https://www.statista.com/statistics/742763/regional-carriers-average-passenger-trip-length/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/742763/regional-carriers... 2. https://www.bts.gov/content/average-length-haul-domestic-freight-and-passenger-modes-miles https://www.bts.gov/content/average-length-haul-domestic-fre...

melling 2y ago

What about everywhere else? NYC - Philly 92 miles NYC - DC 225 miles NYC - Boston 215 miles NYC - Portland, ME 325 miles NYC - Pittsburgh 380 miles NYC - Cleveland 470 miles Cleveland - Chicago 350 miles St. Louis - Chicago 320 miles Houston - Dallas 240 miles Houston - Austin 170 miles Dallas - Austin 200 miles Seattle - Portland 175 miles Las Vegas - Los Angeles 280 miles Las Vegas - San Francisco 600 miles Las Vegas - San Diego 350 miles

jimbobthrowawy 2y ago
You need to have about 50% more range than just the distance between airports (really, enough for two failed landings and a diversion to your most distant alternate) for the sake of having a safety margin, but I see what you're getting at.
- melling 2y ago
  Sounds reasonable. I removed the 7 that were over 600 miles. Here are 7 more: Boston - Pittsburgh 600 miles Boston - Philadelphia 310 miles Boston - Portland, ME 120 miles Boston - Montreal 310 miles Boston - DC 400 miles Chicago - Nashville 475 miles Atlanta - Nashville 250 miles
qbxk 2y ago
forget all these big-city connections. all the regional airports that are a 30m flight from these hubs will eat this kind of service right up. here in burlington, vt all our flights basically go through NYC anyhow, so a regular electric service from here to get to the big planes would be a huge win. there's plenty of airports like ours

CalRobert 2y ago

LA to SF is one of the busiest air routes in the country.

squarefoot 2y ago

It depends on how easy is to make batteries quick to swap. No need for ultra fast charging, they could just use a spare battery pack then the discharged one would go to the next plane after charging. If they find a way to say open a hatch and have the giant battery pack slide out to be replaced by a already fully recharged spare one, the stop could be as quick as changing horses to a carriage.

nasmorn 2y ago
Doesn’t CATL already build 5C batteries? Then fast charging is really enough
- squarefoot 2y ago
  Also possible, if that doesn't impact their life cycle significantly.