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Google no longer developing Material Web Components
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- gjsman-1000 2y ago[flagged]
- superkuh 2y agoYou're absolutely right about the software and absolutely wrong about the profile photo. What aspect of it makes it not seem like Google is a serious company? Non-compliance to 1950-1980s appearance norms? Finally getting rid of the universal suit/tie/shaved/etc dress code was the best thing my generation has done.
- gjsman-1000 2y agoGoogle is currently within the last month suffering from an appearance of being juvenile; and I would not be surprised if it’s causing concern that something is wrong with their mindset. The last example of this was the Marc Rebillet performance at Google I/O. The mother of all cringe. If it was just one employee having fun - whatever! Who cares! My point should be taken in context with the rest of Google’s juvenile image problems, even as they play with fire. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wwk1QIDswcQ&pp=ygUVTWFyYyBSZWJpbGxldCAgZ29vZ2xl https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wwk1QIDswcQ&pp=ygUVTWFyYyBSZWJ... Edit: Also, for those still not following me on the profile image, it’s because it’s kink: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40791195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40791195
- aseo 2y agoboomer moment
- imchillyb 2y agoThat's got to be one of the worst presentations I've seen in the last year. Who green lights garbage like that?
- JimDabell 2y agoAt least there weren’t any ducks, unlike last year: https://youtu.be/-cl0AXv2J4Y?t=963 https://youtu.be/-cl0AXv2J4Y?t=963
- spankalee 2y agoIt's a performance, not a presentation.
- ajford 2y agoIt's serving as both a demo of their generative AI and is an entertainment pre-show. It's not meant to be a presentation or deeply informative.
- AirMax98 2y agoCrowd clapping on the 1 and 3 is a nice confirmation that the crew has zero fucking rhythm.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoI work in games, so this doesn't even phase me. I don't particularly care what people think of my maturity as long as the money keeps flowing in. >"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” ― C.S. Lewis
- gjsman-1000 2y ago“An atheist can’t find God for the same reason a thief can’t find a policeman.” — C.S. Lewis But seriously, Lewis was not a fan of immaturity. “Childish” endeavors is one thing like fairy tales - but do you think even children would like the Google IO performance?
- superkuh 2y agoI cringe more about the terrible "serious" design decisions Goog and friends are shoving through the IETF like HTTP/3 based on their QUIC. Their new HTTP protocol basically is designed only for corporate use cases to the deteriment of "juvenile" human person use cases. Their actions are super serious even if their words and appearance are not. And it's a problem.
- adzm 2y agoMaybe I'm misunderstanding something but quic has been really great to work with and solved a lot of problems in places other than http for me personally
- superkuh 2y agoI'm not saying HTTP/3 is bad for the type of things people get paid to do. I'm saying it's bad for the type of things people chose to do without being paid. For example, it's impossible to connect to a website with HTTP/3 that does not have a CA TLS cert (and all HTTP/3 libs in major browsers are compiled with self-signing disabled). That means it's impossible to host a visitable website (by random people) without getting the continued permission from a third party corporation (there are no CAs included in browsers that are run by human persons, there are only corporate and government CAs). This is extremely sensible for for-profit corporation and institutional practices. But it makes hosting a website from home far, far more complex, fragile and gives all websites a very short lifetime (just months) without continued active mantainence. Normal HTTP+HTTPS websites are visitable forever without doing anything. And that's ignoring the problems of CA centralization and censorship. Having to ask permission from a corporation to host a website is absurd. It is not required in HTTP/1.1 or HTTP/2. HTTP+HTTPS is the most robust and accepted solution to CA TLS problems but HTTP/3 doesn't allow it.
- add-sub-mul-div 2y agoJuvenility is not on the top ten list of problems with Google that are worth worrying about.
- gjsman-1000 2y agoIf this is my vendor that my business is relying on, and they approved nonsense like the above or like this, why the heck would I trust their judgement? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40791158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40791158 I wouldn’t trust the person who made the above to drive me to the gas station.
- add-sub-mul-div 2y agoYou're free to your values and decisions, but Google is the progenitor and linchpin of surveillance capitalism and comparatively I can't find it in me to be bothered that they put on silly shows.
- AirMax98 2y agoThere's a point to be made that these silly little shows are what let Google promote a self-image that they are some ineffectual, twee organization like a local art collective, and it's this mild image that let's Google manufacture spyware without more intense scrutiny. It's subterfuge, and two sides of the same coin.
- spankalee 2y ago> The last example of this was the Marc Rebillet performance at Google I/O. The mother of all cringe You're complaining about the warmup entertainment at a tech conference???
- tdb7893 2y agoIn case you didn't know, HN stands for Hater News and as the old saying goes, "haters gonna hate"
- sjf 2y agoThey are wearing an eternity collar, which means they are in a BDSM relationship. Wearing something highly visible like that is basically performing your kink in public. There is much more discrete jewelry they could wear. I don’t think it’s appropriate for a work place even in 2024.
- olliej 2y agoThat looks like a regular necklace to me, of a fairly generic choker variety that is popular today and was popular 20 years ago. I see nothing explicit in that necklace. Maybe to you it does have some additional meanings, hell maybe it does to her as well, but so do wedding rings, and I’m going to go out on a limb and say you aren’t critiquing people for having profile pics with those.
- debo_ 2y agoTheir jewellery appears discrete to me. What would continuous jewellery look like? You may not think it's appropriate for a workplace, but their employer clearly does or they wouldn't be employed.
- spankalee 2y agoThat photo is absolutely fine. You're telling on yourself more than anything else.
- prmoustache 2y ago99% of the population wouldn't know what that jewelry is anyway, including some of those who wear it. And wearing a collar is not performkng anything kinky.
- hooverd 2y agoIf you know, you know, otherwise it's just jewelry.
- ajford 2y agoAnd how is that any different than any other piece of jewelry? It in no way impedes or impacts your life, just like hair color or cut, earrings, other necklaces, even wedding rings. Why does it matter that it has a significance beyond "it's pretty"? As long as it's not obviously discriminatory in nature (like a necklace full of swastikas), then why does it have to pass your "decency" tests?
- itsoktocry 2y ago>I’m going to save this as a case study for if anyone dares suggest relying on Google for something. I don't get it, the code is going into maintenance mode. It's still usable and forkable, isn't it? Is Google obligated to pay people to work on it forever?
- add-sub-mul-div 2y agoLegally obligated, no. But there is an obligation of a certain level of reliability in order for a party to maintain a reputation that their products are worth adopting for anything important.
- Laremere 2y agoPerhaps the most important part of evaluating a software dependency is identifying it's structural risks to your business/project. Eg, if you're relying on a business's product, does them going bust mean the end for your project. In Google's case, they often will create an open source project in license, but not community. They take the reigns and hold them so tightly that if they let go, nobody is there to pick them up. Compare this to projects created by a single individual: for those to grow in contributors, diversification happens automatically. Transitioning a project in a healthy way requires others to already be actively contributing, and probably in a minor leadership role. The thing here isn't that Google is obligated to spend engineering resources on this forever. It's that the systemic risk of choosing a major Google product at first appears low because Google is one of the most successful companies in existence. However, it's actually very high because they have a history of the above behavior.
- add-sub-mul-div 2y agoYou could have stuck the landing on this point so easily.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- spankalee 2y agoThat is not a manager's photo, that is Liz who works on the team and is a fantastic person. Google does not control or dictate employee's personal GitHub photos, and I'm glad for that.
- olliej 2y agoWait what is the problem with the profile pic? I literally just see a normal person’s profile pic? Are they meant to be corporate/employer logos or something? I need you to be super clear here because her profile pic looks like pretty much anyone else’s so I’m trying to give you the opportunity to explain what is wrong with it, rather than making any assumptions about what you think is wrong.
- gjsman-1000 2y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40791195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40791195
- blurri 2y agoIn regards to your choice to focus on the necklace, all you've done is shown yourself to be a prude.
- sqeaky 2y agoSolids points until you started uselessly commenting on people's appearance.
- skybrian 2y agoSeems like “maintenance mode” isn’t the same as “unmaintained?” It’s more like using a long-term release, which is what some people want, because they don’t want it to change. If you dislike churn, maybe this is good news?
- JimDabell 2y agoWith Material Components for iOS, they said that bug fixes would be merged on a “best effort basis” but then ignored pull requests for show-stopping compile errors. I think this is Google-speak for being abandoned.
- HelloNurse 2y ago"Maintenance" means hoping to maintain users.
- akmarinov 2y agoFlutter next
- rs999gti 2y agoMaterial design isn't used as part of Android spec?
- wildrhythms 2y agoMaterial Design (a design spec) is not Material Web Components (a Javascript component library).
- JimDabell 2y agoThis is no great surprise. We used Google’s Material Components for iOS and that was abandoned a few years ago. They weren’t even merging small pull requests with fixes for show-stopping bugs stopping it from compiling. The writing has been on the wall for a while. https://github.com/material-components/material-components-ios https://github.com/material-components/material-components-i...
- resoluteteeth 2y ago> Material Design is focusing on support for Google's large-scale internal Wiz framework, and has reassigned the engineers working on Material Web Components. This places MWC into maintenance mode. At one point, it seemed like Google was trying to move their stack toward stuff they could publicly release. Now, they seem to be less and less interested in trying to release stuff like this publicly. At some point, if everything google uses is a proprietary stack, eventually people who have worked at google are going to have more trouble getting jobs elsewhere when all the tools they've worked with are things that nobody outside of google has heard of, and that could make it harder for Google to attract developers.
- zaptrem 2y agoThis is already happening. At a previous job I saw an applicant who was struggling to figure out how to use any of the company’s standard tooling for version management and development because they spent their whole career only working with the Google internal versions.
- bsilvereagle 2y ago> eventually people who have worked at google are going to have more trouble getting jobs elsewhere when all the tools they've worked with are things that nobody outside of google has heard of This has already happened. Many companies offer dictionaries to translate the names of Google tools to their tools. Open source ones exist as well: https://github.com/jhuangtw/xg2xg https://github.com/jhuangtw/xg2xg An issue I’ve ran into is startups being very hesitant of hiring Googlers because of a perception that they can’t engineer without other teams of developers supporting all of their tooling. One startup specifically asked how to create a dashboard without using Plx - a wild question given the vast OSS dashboarding ecosystem - but it was still a concern to them.
- spankalee 2y agoGoogle is heading for a world of hurt with their internal web framework decisions as of late. They've been spinning their wheels for years trying to reinvent Wiz, and it's not going well. I'm sure they've wasted literally billions of dollars in salary and opportunity costs. And in the end they're building multiple incompatible proprietary systems, with seemingly no checks on the team in charge of this effort. Even if they manage to succeed somehow, they'll have a system that no new hire will know, that doesn't have any external ecosystem, and definitely, that doesn't attract up-and-coming talent that wants experience that applies to the rest of the industry.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- debo_ 2y agoIf someone was to fork Material and attempt to make a successor project from that foundation, are there any Google-shaped crosshairs they might be inviting unto their person?
- spankalee 2y agoNo. Is all liberally licensed, and there are already many Material implementations. I think the most difficult thing would be understanding the CSS and de-Googlefying it. The SCSS is generated from Google's internal design tokens system, which makes everything more complicated than a pure open implementation would be.
- hamasho 2y ago> Material Design is focusing on support for Google's large-scale internal Wiz framework, and has reassigned the engineers working on Material Web Components. This places MWC into maintenance mode. This shows that even widely used open-source projects aren't immune to being abandoned by the companies. I'm currently enjoying VS Code, but I wonder if it will face a similar fate. There's a risk Microsoft could prioritize VisualStudio or move important features behind a paywall. It may be one or two board members away from abusing their market power to push for full monetization of the product.
- pragmatic 2y agoBig difference is MSFT actually makes money from dev tools. Visual studio, azure DevOps, GitHub, copilot.
- niutech 2y agoThe biggest advantage of open source is that anyone can fork it and develop further - see e.g. Servo abandoned by Mozilla or Ubuntu Touch, but still being developed. The same would definitely be with VSCode/ium.
- efilife 2y agoI never got to use them. I tried to use the previous version on the web, but the setup was either unavailable or too convoluted for me to bother. Was it even available to use then on websites?
- teg4n_ 2y agoThis doesn’t make any sense to me. They are web components, can’t Wiz use web components? Why would it need a different implementation?
- e111077 2y agopolitics
- lobo_tuerto 2y agoRIP
- solardev 2y agoCheck out mui.com, a mature and robust React UI components project loosely based on Material Design. It's powerful, easy to use, well documented, and generally a pleasure. Probably my single favorite web technology. I wish all libs were this good. It's open core, so partially free and open source with a few premium components with features that can be enabled/extended with a paid license.
- sebazzz 2y agoSo is this only for the web components or does this include the icons as well?
- cageface 2y agoMaterial and web components have been major initiatives at Google for years. Google pulling the plug on this despite recording huge profits and despite already slashing thousands and thousands of jobs tells you everything you need to know about how much you can trust any Google tech under their current magpie syndrome management. Flutter is great tech but you'd be nuts to bet your company on it now.
- niutech 2y agoDon't forget Polymer, Closure, GWT.