6 ms·

Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

99 points by rmason 2y ago

marcellus23 2y ago
This isn't really a robot, more of just a remote-controlled boat. Still cool and a great idea for helping people who are drowning, of course. But seems misleading to call it a "robot", which (to me at least) implies some level of autonomy and more tech than you'd find in toy RC cars from 30 years ago.
- MengerSponge 2y ago
  Industrial "robots" often (generally?) have very little autonomy. It's helpful to not be constrained to the human form. What is a robot? An automated laborer.
  - nine_k 2y ago
    Industrial robots are autonomous: they do not require an operator. An RC car requires one.
    - MengerSponge 2y ago
      Many follow a sequence of predefined triggers. They're as autonomous as a belt-fed machine gun, or an internal combustion engine. ROVs are piloted. https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explainers/technology.html https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explainers/technology.html UAVs? Also robots. Even if they're piloted. Bomb Disposal... Robot. An RC car? Probably a robot.
- lawlessone 2y ago
  i thought was just a backpack until it took off
- chankstein38 2y ago
  The price tag also seems like the people want it to be marketed as a robot. You could strap a motor and RC controller to a floatation device and waterproof it for less than a couple hundred dollars. Why do things that are meant for safety always have to be insanely priced?
  - zardo 2y ago
    > Why do things that are meant for safety always have to be insanely priced? When your product fails you may be liable for an injury or death.
  - NegativeLatency 2y ago
    You could also put the operator on a jetski directly
  - tnel77 2y ago
    While greed is surely some of the answer, I’d imagine liability also plays a part. If your device fails to save someone, you could be a target for litigation.
- RobotToaster 2y ago
  Yeah, if you look at the photos it's just just an RC boat with some stuff strapped to the top.
cespare 2y ago
https://archive.is/Kal3q https://archive.is/Kal3q
- tamimio 2y ago
  Thank you! I got a “disable your adblocker” blocker..
akira2501 2y ago
I'm not sure thinking of the robots as "increasing safety" is a useful mindset. They increase the chance of rescue. If you needed one in the first place, it's because you unintentionally neglected safety well before they deployed the robot to you. Anyways.. as an aside.. if it's just about getting flotation devices out to them faster, why not a "life jacket cannon" mounted to the beach? If you really want to make it something to write home about get the guy who was dropping hats on heads the other day to make a robot that drops life jackets on the heads of people flailing about in the water.
- MobileVet 2y ago
  Take a page from every sports stadium in the country... instead of launching T-shirts, launch a foam vest of some sort. Clearly you have an issue with hitting someone in the head with something hard, but probably the bigger issue is launching something that isn't very dense through the air. Quad copter that flies out seems ideal.
- WheatMillington 2y ago
  This is a semantic argument, but defining "safety" as mitigation and prevention of harm is valid.
  - akira2501 2y ago
    Of course it is, which is why I said "not a useful _mindset_." I'm not arguing the semantics, just suggesting that allowing yourself to use them may alter your behavior in negative ways.
    - MengerSponge 2y ago
      If the pandemic taught us anything (which it really, shockingly, didn't) it's that moral hazard is less of a risk than Chicago School economists would have you think. Introducing mechanisms to keep people safer rarely yields the feared perverse behavior, so just introduce the bit of safety and keep a wary eye out for the perverse behavior.
brink 2y ago
Speaking of beach safety, this reminds me that I've been meaning to buy one of these. https://kingiistore.com/ https://kingiistore.com/ I totally understand that not everyone wants to wear a life jacket all the time, me included.
- upheaval7276 2y ago
  Caution to anyone who clicks this link: mute your speakers first, or else you'll have to deal with blaring obnoxious music via an auto-play video that isn't visible without scrolling.
  - brink 2y ago
    What browser are you on that allows autoplaying video?
    - mceachen 2y ago
      Firefox on Windows autoplayed the music, fwiw
- cypherpunks01 2y ago
  I love this. An incredibly simple design for instant buoyancy. I'd think the device could be more affordable if there was additional competition. At $80 price-point it should include a small light (and/or sound) strobe that triggers for locating people in the dark. Gas cylinder refills are incredibly cheap and available everywhere. Makes a lot of sense to keep these around for open-water group swimming adventures, with swimmers of mixed strength.
hereme888 2y ago
Good. Finally. So much more efficient than a human on a paddleboard. I wonder if it a drone could complement the technology by quickly dropping a flotation device while this robot or a recuer arrive to escort them.
- CodeWriter23 2y ago
  Lifeguards on some beaches in CA use rapid-deploy personal water craft like a Seadoo.
xnx 2y ago
Reach. Throw. Row^H^H^H Robot. Go.
- MengerSponge 2y ago
  Throw Row Arigato Mr Roboto for saving me again...
ben7799 2y ago
If it's $12k and requires an operator this seems more of a band-aid than anything. Where are the operators going to come from? And for a lot of places the operator + device probably pays for 3 lifeguards or swim instructors. Nothing is going to get better until we start trying to get out of the hole and improve the average person's ability to swim and make decisions in open water. I used to be a lifeguard and swim instructor and it has mostly felt like things have gotten worse and worse over the last 20 years. Fewer and fewer places to swim, more and more places just made everything a wading pool or a splash park to reduce liability, and after a generation of this there is an undersupply of people who can teach others to swim. Now some municipalities in my area are trying to ban swimming in open water. They closed all the pools to save money, it gets hotter and hotter and more people who can't swim go in the oceans/rivers/ponds/lakes to try and cool off. A lot of the people who never learned to swim make extremely poor decisions when they go into open water or use a small boat. The answer is not to fine them for going in the water. It's pretty frustrating to think about all this after watching the Olympic trials this past weekend.
- sandworm101 2y ago
  >> A lot of the people who never learned to swim make extremely poor decisions when they go into open water or use a small boat. And a great many of those poor decisions are somewhat based on drugs/alcohol. The kid drowning because in a rip off a popular beach is rare. The grown man drowning stuck under his own dock, even in his own pool, on a friday night is not. We shouldn't deprive kids of water access because grownups make poor decisions while high.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Just another example of the US’s excessive liability culture that is gumming up the gears of society.
    - quasse 2y ago
      My alma matter (which is directly on a lake) has been gradually banning all unsupervised swimming for students because someone gets blackout drunk and drowns themself in the lake every year. I think it's a tragedy; I spent a lot of my formative time enjoying the lake and the outdoors (not to mention it being one of the few healthy ways to escape the stress of engineering school). The school is also gradually eroding all of the student run outdoor clubs (sailing, mountaineering) because they aren't directly controlled by the university bureaucratic system. Young adults today are having that taken away from them and replaced with nothing.
chasd00 2y ago
seems like it wouldn't be that hard to have a lifeguard spot someone with a laser and then a drone drop a life jacket on that spot. They could just use the laser until the drone has the coordinates of the reflection and then start swimming while the drone flys ahead and drops a life jacket at least somewhat close. if that doesn't pan out then pivot and sell the tech to the military replacing life jacket with a grenade of some sort.
rqtwteye 2y ago
"Robot" is a little misleading for basically a remote controlled boat. Definitely very useful.
ec109685 2y ago
It seems like having real drones monitor the water and these robotic boats could make a difference over time. An AI lifeguard seems like a tractable problem, making it possible for human guards to cover a lot more area.
nanis 2y ago
Number one criterion for finding a good beach to swim: A prominent sign saying "Swim at your own risk: No lifeguard on duty."
- topspin 2y ago
  Indeed. The Lake Huron beach I frequent has no life guard. Also, no sign.

99 points by rmason 2y ago

This isn't really a robot, more of just a remote-controlled boat. Still cool and a great idea for helping people who are drowning, of course. But seems misleading to call it a "robot", which (to me at least) implies some level of autonomy and more tech than you'd find in toy RC cars from 30 years ago.

MengerSponge 2y ago
Industrial "robots" often (generally?) have very little autonomy. It's helpful to not be constrained to the human form. What is a robot? An automated laborer.
- nine_k 2y ago
  Industrial robots are autonomous: they do not require an operator. An RC car requires one.
  - MengerSponge 2y ago
    Many follow a sequence of predefined triggers. They're as autonomous as a belt-fed machine gun, or an internal combustion engine. ROVs are piloted. https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explainers/technology.html https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explainers/technology.html UAVs? Also robots. Even if they're piloted. Bomb Disposal... Robot. An RC car? Probably a robot.
lawlessone 2y ago
i thought was just a backpack until it took off
chankstein38 2y ago
The price tag also seems like the people want it to be marketed as a robot. You could strap a motor and RC controller to a floatation device and waterproof it for less than a couple hundred dollars. Why do things that are meant for safety always have to be insanely priced?
- zardo 2y ago
  > Why do things that are meant for safety always have to be insanely priced? When your product fails you may be liable for an injury or death.
- NegativeLatency 2y ago
  You could also put the operator on a jetski directly
- tnel77 2y ago
  While greed is surely some of the answer, I’d imagine liability also plays a part. If your device fails to save someone, you could be a target for litigation.
RobotToaster 2y ago
Yeah, if you look at the photos it's just just an RC boat with some stuff strapped to the top.

cespare 2y ago

https://archive.is/Kal3q https://archive.is/Kal3q

tamimio 2y ago
Thank you! I got a “disable your adblocker” blocker..

akira2501 2y ago

I'm not sure thinking of the robots as "increasing safety" is a useful mindset. They increase the chance of rescue. If you needed one in the first place, it's because you unintentionally neglected safety well before they deployed the robot to you. Anyways.. as an aside.. if it's just about getting flotation devices out to them faster, why not a "life jacket cannon" mounted to the beach? If you really want to make it something to write home about get the guy who was dropping hats on heads the other day to make a robot that drops life jackets on the heads of people flailing about in the water.

MobileVet 2y ago
Take a page from every sports stadium in the country... instead of launching T-shirts, launch a foam vest of some sort. Clearly you have an issue with hitting someone in the head with something hard, but probably the bigger issue is launching something that isn't very dense through the air. Quad copter that flies out seems ideal.
WheatMillington 2y ago
This is a semantic argument, but defining "safety" as mitigation and prevention of harm is valid.
- akira2501 2y ago
  Of course it is, which is why I said "not a useful _mindset_." I'm not arguing the semantics, just suggesting that allowing yourself to use them may alter your behavior in negative ways.
  - MengerSponge 2y ago
    If the pandemic taught us anything (which it really, shockingly, didn't) it's that moral hazard is less of a risk than Chicago School economists would have you think. Introducing mechanisms to keep people safer rarely yields the feared perverse behavior, so just introduce the bit of safety and keep a wary eye out for the perverse behavior.

brink 2y ago

Speaking of beach safety, this reminds me that I've been meaning to buy one of these. https://kingiistore.com/ https://kingiistore.com/ I totally understand that not everyone wants to wear a life jacket all the time, me included.

upheaval7276 2y ago
Caution to anyone who clicks this link: mute your speakers first, or else you'll have to deal with blaring obnoxious music via an auto-play video that isn't visible without scrolling.
- brink 2y ago
  What browser are you on that allows autoplaying video?
  - mceachen 2y ago
    Firefox on Windows autoplayed the music, fwiw
cypherpunks01 2y ago
I love this. An incredibly simple design for instant buoyancy. I'd think the device could be more affordable if there was additional competition. At $80 price-point it should include a small light (and/or sound) strobe that triggers for locating people in the dark. Gas cylinder refills are incredibly cheap and available everywhere. Makes a lot of sense to keep these around for open-water group swimming adventures, with swimmers of mixed strength.

hereme888 2y ago

Good. Finally. So much more efficient than a human on a paddleboard. I wonder if it a drone could complement the technology by quickly dropping a flotation device while this robot or a recuer arrive to escort them.

CodeWriter23 2y ago
Lifeguards on some beaches in CA use rapid-deploy personal water craft like a Seadoo.

xnx 2y ago

Reach. Throw. Row^H^H^H Robot. Go.

MengerSponge 2y ago
Throw Row Arigato Mr Roboto for saving me again...

ben7799 2y ago

If it's $12k and requires an operator this seems more of a band-aid than anything. Where are the operators going to come from? And for a lot of places the operator + device probably pays for 3 lifeguards or swim instructors. Nothing is going to get better until we start trying to get out of the hole and improve the average person's ability to swim and make decisions in open water. I used to be a lifeguard and swim instructor and it has mostly felt like things have gotten worse and worse over the last 20 years. Fewer and fewer places to swim, more and more places just made everything a wading pool or a splash park to reduce liability, and after a generation of this there is an undersupply of people who can teach others to swim. Now some municipalities in my area are trying to ban swimming in open water. They closed all the pools to save money, it gets hotter and hotter and more people who can't swim go in the oceans/rivers/ponds/lakes to try and cool off. A lot of the people who never learned to swim make extremely poor decisions when they go into open water or use a small boat. The answer is not to fine them for going in the water. It's pretty frustrating to think about all this after watching the Olympic trials this past weekend.

sandworm101 2y ago
>> A lot of the people who never learned to swim make extremely poor decisions when they go into open water or use a small boat. And a great many of those poor decisions are somewhat based on drugs/alcohol. The kid drowning because in a rip off a popular beach is rare. The grown man drowning stuck under his own dock, even in his own pool, on a friday night is not. We shouldn't deprive kids of water access because grownups make poor decisions while high.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Just another example of the US’s excessive liability culture that is gumming up the gears of society.
  - quasse 2y ago
    My alma matter (which is directly on a lake) has been gradually banning all unsupervised swimming for students because someone gets blackout drunk and drowns themself in the lake every year. I think it's a tragedy; I spent a lot of my formative time enjoying the lake and the outdoors (not to mention it being one of the few healthy ways to escape the stress of engineering school). The school is also gradually eroding all of the student run outdoor clubs (sailing, mountaineering) because they aren't directly controlled by the university bureaucratic system. Young adults today are having that taken away from them and replaced with nothing.

chasd00 2y ago

seems like it wouldn't be that hard to have a lifeguard spot someone with a laser and then a drone drop a life jacket on that spot. They could just use the laser until the drone has the coordinates of the reflection and then start swimming while the drone flys ahead and drops a life jacket at least somewhat close. if that doesn't pan out then pivot and sell the tech to the military replacing life jacket with a grenade of some sort.

rqtwteye 2y ago

"Robot" is a little misleading for basically a remote controlled boat. Definitely very useful.

ec109685 2y ago

It seems like having real drones monitor the water and these robotic boats could make a difference over time. An AI lifeguard seems like a tractable problem, making it possible for human guards to cover a lot more area.

nanis 2y ago

Number one criterion for finding a good beach to swim: A prominent sign saying "Swim at your own risk: No lifeguard on duty."

topspin 2y ago
Indeed. The Lake Huron beach I frequent has no life guard. Also, no sign.