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> In addition to limiting China’s battery complex, the free world, especially the United States, must strengthen itself by expanding its own battery capacity an

by xinuc 2y ago

> In addition to limiting China’s battery complex, the free world, especially the United States, must strengthen itself by expanding its own battery capacity and capabilities. I just realized that western countries use the term "the free world" to describe themselves above other countries. It's just funny how they like to fool themselves.

vasco 2y ago
I mean, "the west" also doesn’t mean much unless there is a bunch of assumed convention. To know what the "western countries" are, basically you need to know more than "west of what" and "go west until when" but actually something more like "post WW2 allied countries with NATO membership", and even that isn't a great way to figure it out.
api 2y ago
What happens in Russia or China if you viciously criticize their leadership? Most of the “free world” is at least comparatively free compared to the rest. No it is not black and white but it’s definitely light grey vs dark grey or black. There’s a reason places like the USA, Canada, etc continue to be the most desirable destinations for immigration while you see very few people trying to get into Russia or China. Only people trying to get into those are fleeing much worse places or in the case of Russia have drunk certain brands of kool-aid.
- 8372049 2y ago
  In absolute numbers, the US is the #1, but immigrants as percentage of population has the US as #65 (Canada #41). Still way higher than Russia or China. While a little over 15 % of the US population are immigrants (defined as not born in the country), only 0.07 % of the Chinese population are immigrants. Roughly 7 % of Russian population is immigrants. Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigrati...
  - anamax 2y ago
    > In absolute numbers, the US is the #1, but immigrants as percentage of population has the US as #65 (Canada #41). The relevant denominator would seem to be "population outside the target," not "population in the target." After all, the immigrant population comes from outside their destination.
adriancr 2y ago
> It's just funny how they like to fool themselves. They are in essence free compared to russia and china's autocracies. Do you mind detailing what you mean?
- Teever 2y ago
  Why take the bait? This guy wants to talk about something nebulous like freedom. Let's talk about how we can bring domestic battery manufacturing to America so that we can use that to crush Chinese and Russian military opposition with the eventual goal of seeing proper democracy brought to those regions. We need domestic battery production for so many things, and it needed to happen yesterday. Another thing I've been wondering about is this: Who is the JLPCB or PCBWay of America? When is low cost rapid turn around PCB manufacturing in America going to be a thing? How can I be a part of that?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - somenameforme 2y ago
    I'm not sure American democracy is in place to be a system we might want to see in the rest of the world. If we're speaking idealistically, I think there's a far more reasonable idea than hegemony. Imagine a multi-polar world, with certain limited global rights. For instance we could have a guarantee of free emigration: If a person, of no real criminality, wants to leave their country (perhaps because they feel oppressed or whatever) then their government cannot prevent them, if another country is willing to accept them. Alongside this there should also be a global agreement for countries to not interfere, directly or covertly, in the matters of other countries. That would include things like funding or otherwise providing support to various groups within other countries. It seems this would be a zillion times more viable, effective, harmonious, and productive - than trying to Americanize the rest of the world, which seems more likely to lead to the end of the world than anything else.
    - jl6 2y ago
      > of no real criminality Just be sure not to let the true Scotsmen migrate! > a global agreement for countries to not interfere, directly or covertly, in the matters of other countries Such as interfering with their CO2 emissions?
jszymborski 2y ago
China is an authoritarian regime without elections, let alone free and open ones. Equivocating the systems of government of the US or "Western Countries" as you've put it with that of China, is so blatantly false that someone less charitable than I might question whether you are arguing in good faith.
- riku_iki 2y ago
  US's president elections are effectively decided by 10k delegates in two parties during primaries, population chooses from two options they are given. It is better than in China(which has one party), but is it really by far better?
  - 8372049 2y ago
    Let's also not forget that only 538 people have actual voting rights in US presidential elections. It's mostly a formality, but one of many flaws in the US democracy.
    - AlbertCory 2y ago
      > the US democracy which doesn't exist. It's a republic.
  - jszymborski 2y ago
    Yes
    - riku_iki 2y ago
      why do you think so?
AlbertCory 2y ago
Old USSR joke: Anti-communist says, "In America, I'm free to stand on the corner with a sign saying, 'Nixon is a criminal' " Loyal communist supporter, "Here, too, I'm free to stand on the corner with a sign saying, 'Nixon is a criminal' "
jheitmann 2y ago
Also, China's battery production is described as a "battery complex" while US battery production is described as a "battery industry" or "battery industrial base".

by xinuc 2y ago

vasco 2y ago

I mean, "the west" also doesn’t mean much unless there is a bunch of assumed convention. To know what the "western countries" are, basically you need to know more than "west of what" and "go west until when" but actually something more like "post WW2 allied countries with NATO membership", and even that isn't a great way to figure it out.

api 2y ago

What happens in Russia or China if you viciously criticize their leadership? Most of the “free world” is at least comparatively free compared to the rest. No it is not black and white but it’s definitely light grey vs dark grey or black. There’s a reason places like the USA, Canada, etc continue to be the most desirable destinations for immigration while you see very few people trying to get into Russia or China. Only people trying to get into those are fleeing much worse places or in the case of Russia have drunk certain brands of kool-aid.

8372049 2y ago
In absolute numbers, the US is the #1, but immigrants as percentage of population has the US as #65 (Canada #41). Still way higher than Russia or China. While a little over 15 % of the US population are immigrants (defined as not born in the country), only 0.07 % of the Chinese population are immigrants. Roughly 7 % of Russian population is immigrants. Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigrati...
- anamax 2y ago
  > In absolute numbers, the US is the #1, but immigrants as percentage of population has the US as #65 (Canada #41). The relevant denominator would seem to be "population outside the target," not "population in the target." After all, the immigrant population comes from outside their destination.

adriancr 2y ago

> It's just funny how they like to fool themselves. They are in essence free compared to russia and china's autocracies. Do you mind detailing what you mean?

Teever 2y ago
Why take the bait? This guy wants to talk about something nebulous like freedom. Let's talk about how we can bring domestic battery manufacturing to America so that we can use that to crush Chinese and Russian military opposition with the eventual goal of seeing proper democracy brought to those regions. We need domestic battery production for so many things, and it needed to happen yesterday. Another thing I've been wondering about is this: Who is the JLPCB or PCBWay of America? When is low cost rapid turn around PCB manufacturing in America going to be a thing? How can I be a part of that?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- somenameforme 2y ago
  I'm not sure American democracy is in place to be a system we might want to see in the rest of the world. If we're speaking idealistically, I think there's a far more reasonable idea than hegemony. Imagine a multi-polar world, with certain limited global rights. For instance we could have a guarantee of free emigration: If a person, of no real criminality, wants to leave their country (perhaps because they feel oppressed or whatever) then their government cannot prevent them, if another country is willing to accept them. Alongside this there should also be a global agreement for countries to not interfere, directly or covertly, in the matters of other countries. That would include things like funding or otherwise providing support to various groups within other countries. It seems this would be a zillion times more viable, effective, harmonious, and productive - than trying to Americanize the rest of the world, which seems more likely to lead to the end of the world than anything else.
  - jl6 2y ago
    > of no real criminality Just be sure not to let the true Scotsmen migrate! > a global agreement for countries to not interfere, directly or covertly, in the matters of other countries Such as interfering with their CO2 emissions?

jszymborski 2y ago

China is an authoritarian regime without elections, let alone free and open ones. Equivocating the systems of government of the US or "Western Countries" as you've put it with that of China, is so blatantly false that someone less charitable than I might question whether you are arguing in good faith.

riku_iki 2y ago
US's president elections are effectively decided by 10k delegates in two parties during primaries, population chooses from two options they are given. It is better than in China(which has one party), but is it really by far better?
- 8372049 2y ago
  Let's also not forget that only 538 people have actual voting rights in US presidential elections. It's mostly a formality, but one of many flaws in the US democracy.
  - AlbertCory 2y ago
    > the US democracy which doesn't exist. It's a republic.
- jszymborski 2y ago
  Yes
  - riku_iki 2y ago
    why do you think so?

AlbertCory 2y ago

Old USSR joke: Anti-communist says, "In America, I'm free to stand on the corner with a sign saying, 'Nixon is a criminal' " Loyal communist supporter, "Here, too, I'm free to stand on the corner with a sign saying, 'Nixon is a criminal' "

jheitmann 2y ago

Also, China's battery production is described as a "battery complex" while US battery production is described as a "battery industry" or "battery industrial base".