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My friend recently got a new Windows PC. Out of the box, it spent maybe 15-20 minutes updating itself. "We're getting things ready", reboot, create a Microsoft

by Tempest1981 2y ago

My friend recently got a new Windows PC. Out of the box, it spent maybe 15-20 minutes updating itself. "We're getting things ready", reboot, create a Microsoft account, 10 data sharing settings to turn off, "almost ready..." Iirc, a MacBook is ready to use without any updates.

MBCook 2y ago
I think it will ask, but it’s optional. You can do it later if you’d prefer. The only time it’s mandatory is if you are restoring from a back up or transferring from another computer with a newer operating system. So if your old machine was on 10.20.1 but your new machine is 10.19.4 because that was the newest when it was put in box then you’ll have to update it first.
lostlogin 2y ago
> a MacBook is ready to use without any updates. Do you want to give this app access to downloads? To desktop? To microphone? What about this app? Sign in to iCloud. Sign in again. Maybe this time? Nope, sign in to iCloud. I’ve picked my poison, and it’s Apple, but it’s far from perfect.
- MBCook 2y ago
  Those aren’t updates. They’re obnoxious. I’m getting more annoyed with MacOS too for that and other reasons mostly around services. But you can start using it without OS updates.
  - wvenable 2y ago
    I'm not sure why you'd want to start using an OS without running the latest revision.
    - more_corn 2y ago
      You can choose to run updates if you want. Choice bing the operative word.
    - CamperBob2 2y ago
      What business is it of yours? Or Microsoft's? Or Apple's?
      - wvenable 2y ago
        Microsoft care quite a bit because security vulnerabilities of end user machines that were out of date was a huge issue. Since they basically stopped allowing users to run outdated versions, that problem has effectively disappeared.
        CamperBob2 2y ago
        So it was necessary to destroy the product in order to save its users. Got it. Suggest reading up on the history of personal computing, and then ask yourself if this is how it was supposed to go. At this point, even Mac and Linux users are starting to feel the loving embrace of their OS vendors' paternalism.
        wvenable 2y ago
        As soon as computers are on a network that changes things. A compromised machine is a danger to others. > So it was necessary to destroy the product in order to save its users. I fail to see how an updated OS is a destroyed product.
        CamperBob2 2y ago
        As soon as computers are on a network that changes things. A compromised machine is a danger to others. I don't think you want to go there, broheim. Wait'll you hear my opinion of how "safe" your computer is, and whether it should be allowed on a network. I fail to see how an updated OS is a destroyed product. A personal computer, along with its operating system, should do what its owner tells it to do. That was kind of the original idea, anyway.
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    They aren’t updates, but a new Mac is not completely ready to go and nag free.
- bigyikes 2y ago
  What is the alternative to the access problem? Would you prefer apps be able to access that stuff without permission? I get it’s annoying but at least it’s safe?
  - lokar 2y ago
    I agree. My solution is to remove software that keeps asking after being denied (logitech!).
  - lostlogin 2y ago
    > What is the alternative to the access problem? I don’t have a perfect solution, but I also don’t have billions in the bank and lots of employees tasked to the issue. One popup with a list of apps and their permissions would at least be a one stop shop, but even that wouldn’t be great on a new machine setup as your apps aren’t all there yet.
dividefuel 2y ago
I just got a new MacBook Air a couple of days ago, and a couple weeks before that I helped my mom set up a new Win 11 laptop. The Macbook's setup is definitely a bit faster than Windows, but it's not way faster. I still had to turn off a lot of the things it suggests, and I still was prompted to update the OS. However, the Macbook was less pushy and I felt the features at least seemed to offer some user value.
Aachen 2y ago
I am exclusively a Linux user (mobile and desktop) but I gotta be fair: if updates upon installation are the main complaint... Pretty sure some vendors update phones in the store to avoid bothering the customer with it. Seems like a lot of effort to boot the full inventory's amount of phones every time there's a security patch only so people don't have to download a diff on first launch (edit: found it https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/27/what-new-machine-to-update-iphones-looks-like/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/27/what-new-machine-to-upd...)
- beagle3 2y ago
  Which Linux phone and on what phone hardware?
  - Aachen 2y ago
    Just a regular Samsung (S10e because it has a headphone jack; bought second hand to reduce e-waste), running Debian in userspace on the stock kernel because I didn't want to give up things like the camera 960fps slow motion feature. I like open source but I also like practical usability ^^' The Debian "app" gives me access to apt and anything that has an ARM build, which is nearly everything. Sometimes I write code on it, like a PoC to brute force a numeric parking lot voucher was the most recent instance, but most commonly I use qalc (best calculator ever, also use it on desktop) and sshd to remotely access photos/Screenshots. It used to be more featureful and you could run things like wavemon and aircrack, but selinux restrictions have made that a thing of the past. Surely it's possible to adjust, but I haven't invested the time in finding out how yet
pbhjpbhj 2y ago
Win11 install was v.slow, much slower than Pop_OS!, say, and infinitely more annoying. And each user (on Home edition) that logs in has to be configured ... "we're still going to advertise to you, you may as well let us spy on you so you get adverts you'll like" ... sheesh. You're immediately hit with apps you can't uninstall (Edge) too. Fwiw, CS2 ran away smoother for me on Kubuntu than it does on Win11 (same hardware). I wasn't expecting that.

MBCook 2y ago

I think it will ask, but it’s optional. You can do it later if you’d prefer. The only time it’s mandatory is if you are restoring from a back up or transferring from another computer with a newer operating system. So if your old machine was on 10.20.1 but your new machine is 10.19.4 because that was the newest when it was put in box then you’ll have to update it first.

lostlogin 2y ago

> a MacBook is ready to use without any updates. Do you want to give this app access to downloads? To desktop? To microphone? What about this app? Sign in to iCloud. Sign in again. Maybe this time? Nope, sign in to iCloud. I’ve picked my poison, and it’s Apple, but it’s far from perfect.

MBCook 2y ago
Those aren’t updates. They’re obnoxious. I’m getting more annoyed with MacOS too for that and other reasons mostly around services. But you can start using it without OS updates.
- wvenable 2y ago
  I'm not sure why you'd want to start using an OS without running the latest revision.
  - more_corn 2y ago
    You can choose to run updates if you want. Choice bing the operative word.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    What business is it of yours? Or Microsoft's? Or Apple's?
    - wvenable 2y ago
      Microsoft care quite a bit because security vulnerabilities of end user machines that were out of date was a huge issue. Since they basically stopped allowing users to run outdated versions, that problem has effectively disappeared.
      - CamperBob2 2y ago
        So it was necessary to destroy the product in order to save its users. Got it. Suggest reading up on the history of personal computing, and then ask yourself if this is how it was supposed to go. At this point, even Mac and Linux users are starting to feel the loving embrace of their OS vendors' paternalism.
        wvenable 2y ago
        As soon as computers are on a network that changes things. A compromised machine is a danger to others. > So it was necessary to destroy the product in order to save its users. I fail to see how an updated OS is a destroyed product.
        CamperBob2 2y ago
        As soon as computers are on a network that changes things. A compromised machine is a danger to others. I don't think you want to go there, broheim. Wait'll you hear my opinion of how "safe" your computer is, and whether it should be allowed on a network. I fail to see how an updated OS is a destroyed product. A personal computer, along with its operating system, should do what its owner tells it to do. That was kind of the original idea, anyway.
- lostlogin 2y ago
  They aren’t updates, but a new Mac is not completely ready to go and nag free.
bigyikes 2y ago
What is the alternative to the access problem? Would you prefer apps be able to access that stuff without permission? I get it’s annoying but at least it’s safe?
- lokar 2y ago
  I agree. My solution is to remove software that keeps asking after being denied (logitech!).
- lostlogin 2y ago
  > What is the alternative to the access problem? I don’t have a perfect solution, but I also don’t have billions in the bank and lots of employees tasked to the issue. One popup with a list of apps and their permissions would at least be a one stop shop, but even that wouldn’t be great on a new machine setup as your apps aren’t all there yet.

dividefuel 2y ago

I just got a new MacBook Air a couple of days ago, and a couple weeks before that I helped my mom set up a new Win 11 laptop. The Macbook's setup is definitely a bit faster than Windows, but it's not way faster. I still had to turn off a lot of the things it suggests, and I still was prompted to update the OS. However, the Macbook was less pushy and I felt the features at least seemed to offer some user value.

Aachen 2y ago

I am exclusively a Linux user (mobile and desktop) but I gotta be fair: if updates upon installation are the main complaint... Pretty sure some vendors update phones in the store to avoid bothering the customer with it. Seems like a lot of effort to boot the full inventory's amount of phones every time there's a security patch only so people don't have to download a diff on first launch (edit: found it https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/27/what-new-machine-to-update-iphones-looks-like/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/27/what-new-machine-to-upd...)

beagle3 2y ago
Which Linux phone and on what phone hardware?
- Aachen 2y ago
  Just a regular Samsung (S10e because it has a headphone jack; bought second hand to reduce e-waste), running Debian in userspace on the stock kernel because I didn't want to give up things like the camera 960fps slow motion feature. I like open source but I also like practical usability ^^' The Debian "app" gives me access to apt and anything that has an ARM build, which is nearly everything. Sometimes I write code on it, like a PoC to brute force a numeric parking lot voucher was the most recent instance, but most commonly I use qalc (best calculator ever, also use it on desktop) and sshd to remotely access photos/Screenshots. It used to be more featureful and you could run things like wavemon and aircrack, but selinux restrictions have made that a thing of the past. Surely it's possible to adjust, but I haven't invested the time in finding out how yet

pbhjpbhj 2y ago

Win11 install was v.slow, much slower than Pop_OS!, say, and infinitely more annoying. And each user (on Home edition) that logs in has to be configured ... "we're still going to advertise to you, you may as well let us spy on you so you get adverts you'll like" ... sheesh. You're immediately hit with apps you can't uninstall (Edge) too. Fwiw, CS2 ran away smoother for me on Kubuntu than it does on Win11 (same hardware). I wasn't expecting that.