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Consumer rights have taken such a beating in the internet age. If you look at pre-internet product categories there are all kind of protections on the books lik
by AlexandrB 2y ago
Consumer rights have taken such a beating in the internet age. If you look at pre-internet product categories there are all kind of protections on the books like minimum warranty lengths, lemon laws, etc. Meanwhile, with software products - even very expensive ones - you're at the mercy of the vendor and their ToS. The fact that you can't even get refunds (e.g. within 15 days or something) for most software is ridiculous.
- exe34 2y agodon't buy them!
- mathgradthrow 2y agothe idea is that you need to buy something to figure out if it works most of the time. What you are saying us that your preferred society is one in which you are not allowed to determine if something works before you buy it.
- exe34 2y agono, I'm saying I believe in the free market. buy a product that meets your requirements. if you find it doesn't, return it for a refund. do a chargeback if they won't do a refund. you are entitled to a refund within 14 days. https://www.termsfeed.com/blog/return-refund-laws-eu/#:~:text=EU%20Consumer%20Rights%20Directive%3A%20Gives,not%20as%20described%20within%20two https://www.termsfeed.com/blog/return-refund-laws-eu/#:~:tex...
- autoexec 2y agoThe EU is a different beast entirely. People in the EU get a lot of rights that people in the US don't. That said, one of the many many problems of the "free market" is that it depends on there being a company willing to leave huge stacks of money and power on the table. Maybe some company could take a few customers from their competitors by offering great refunds and fair terms when no one else will, but why would they ever do that when they'll make far more money if they screw over their customers just like everyone else is doing? Sometimes, it will always be more profitable for companies to refuse to give consumers what they want, at which point it becomes impossible to vote with your wallet since there is no one to give your money to except those who are doing what you'd prefer to "vote" against. Especially when companies are either colluding directly with each other or just looking for the company with the most oppressive and abusive polices/practices and copying what they do, your options drop off very very quickly. Even if you do manage to find a company that seems like it's good, it's just a matter of time until enshittification kicks in and the service degrades because ultimately, companies are all looking out for themselves and insist on endless growth and higher and higher profits so they all push to charge you as much as they possibly can while delivering as little as possible in return. It's a race to the bottom where you always lose.
- exe34 2y agoall that freedom and you can't return a faulty product?
- autoexec 2y agoLong before we started keeping more of our citizens locked up behind bars than any other nation on the earth "all that freedom" has been mostly just advertising, but the free speech is pretty nice.
- exe34 2y agoat least you guys have guns though! you know, in case the government makes laws that you don't like or it lets corporations take the piss.
- hanniabu 2y agoCan't believe there's still people to think the free market actually exists
- exe34 2y agonow imagine one where you have a right to return something that doesn't meet your needs within 14 days.
- chris_wot 2y agoAn absolute free market is a dangerous illusion.
- exe34 2y agoIndeed, one run by corporate lobbying is much better.
- mathgradthrow 2y agoAre you admitting that you only believe in a "free market" because the alternative is run by corporate lobbying. Not all regulation is subject to capture by default. It has taken a lot of work to erode the system enough.
- mihaaly 2y agoHow exactly to do that after one already bought it?
- exe34 2y agoin the civilised world, you are entitled to return a faulty product within 14 days of purchase.
- mihaaly 2y agoBut how do you return it when you "don't buy them!", as you suggested? : D Also, why don't you read that you are answering to: "The fact that you can't even get refunds (e.g. within 15 days or something) for most software is ridiculous", dear Civilized World? : )
- exe34 2y agohttps://www.termsfeed.com/blog/return-refund-laws-eu/#:~:text=EU%20Consumer%20Rights%20Directive%3A%20Gives,not%20as%20described%20within%20two https://www.termsfeed.com/blog/return-refund-laws-eu/#:~:tex...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mihaaly 2y agoBut how do you return it when you "don't buy them!", as you proudly suggested? :D You never read what you are answering too, like "The fact that you can't even get refunds" or "how do you return if you don't buy"? :D
- whimsicalism 2y agoi’m pretty partial to the idea that this is not somewhere government needs to be involved
- int_19h 2y agoOn the contrary, ensuring fair trading practices is precisely the area where government needs to be most actively involved in economic matters. What is the downside of clamping down on borderline fraud, exactly?
- TeMPOraL 2y ago> What is the downside of clamping down on borderline fraud, exactly? Fraudsters don't get rich. And more importantly, wannabe fraudsters have their dream career path cut off. It's a huge downside to them all.
- whimsicalism 2y agoi’m not even sure what a warranty for a social media account even means
- thegrimmest 2y agoWhat do you mean "fair"? To me the idea of free/consensual exchange (backed by court-mediated disputes and bankruptcy protection) most resembles "fair". If you like a service, use it. If you don't, don't. The (quite small) risk of falling through the cracks and ending up hard stuck is just something one risk-accepts when signing up to a service and maintaining important data there. Your risk management is entirely your own concern. I would never want a paternalistic government dictating when and how I interact with the market. Why do you want to impose it on me?
- farrarstan 2y ago[dead]
- Dylan16807 2y agoTheir main point was about software purchases, where consensual exchange needs the ability to refund when it doesn't work. It's good to impose refunds. > The (quite small) risk of falling through the cracks and ending up hard stuck is just something one risk-accepts when signing up to a service and maintaining important data there. Why should it be? Fuck that! > I would never want a paternalistic government dictating when and how I interact with the market. Why do you want to impose it on me? The government wouldn't dictate your actions at all here.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- messe 2y ago> The fact that you can't even get refunds Maybe not in the US, but in the EU that's possible. Maybe all that outright opposition to regulation isn't necessarily a good thing...?
- chii 2y ago> at the mercy of the vendor and their ToS. they've discovered that their ToS is something they can abuse and write whatever they wish and pretend it's law. And because consumers both dont read it, and don't understand it, it becomes difficult for the consumer to disambiguate what is legal and what isn't.